Greece Analysis Greece goes arms shopping as Turkey tension rises

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,755
Reactions
118 19,759
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India

@Dante80 @Vergennes

Greece goes arms shopping as Turkey tension rises

France set to benefit from Athens’ plans to boost military spending.

By NEKTARIA STAMOULI

9/11/20, 4:03 AM CET


Updated 9/11/20, 11:09 AM CET


ATHENS — Greece is getting out the credit card and going on a big military spending spree as it faces growing tensions with Turkey.

Despite the deep recession caused by the coronavirus crisis and a rising budget deficit, Athens has decided it’s time to act. Fighter jets, frigates, torpedoes and helicopters are all on Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis’ shopping list.


France, which has given Athens political and military backing in its confrontation with Ankara, will be a big beneficiary of the procurement push. A deal between the two countries was on the agenda when Mitsotakis met French President Emmanuel Macron in Corsica ahead of a summit of Mediterranean leaders on Thursday.

But other key allies are also likely to benefit from plans that are expected to raise military spending by some €10 billion over the next 10 years, according to Greek officials. That would amount to an increase of about one third on current levels.

Some €1.5 billion will be spent on arms and equipment in the coming months and most of it will come from a recent 10-year bond issue.

“The pie will be shared, as Greece always does defense diplomacy,” said a senior Greek official. “But the biggest share will be given to France, in order to consolidate French cooperation in defense with common military exercises and to be able to more easily move together.”

Mitsotakis will outline the procurement program on Saturday during the prime minister’s annual economic policy speech in Thessaloniki.

“The prime minister will be specific on the triptych in which we are moving: armaments programs, strengthening the human resources of the armed forces and reorganizing the defense industry, which is able, after all, to contribute to technological development and stimulate employment,” government spokesman Stelios Petsas told reporters this week.

Greek officials have justified the plans to ramp up spending in part by citing the rising tensions with Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Since early August, an official Turkish vessel, the Oruç Reis, has been conducting seismic research in what Greece considers its continental shelf, south of the Greek island of Kastellorizo. Both sides exchange barbs on a daily basis, while Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has repeatedly threatened war.

Dozens of Greek and Turkish navy flotillas are lined up in the area against each other and diplomats fear an accidental or deliberate escalation could spark a full-blown conflict. A Greek frigate collided with a Turkish ship last month.

"Wherever we need to make those targeted investments, which unfortunately our geopolitical position imposes — even if that means some small additional sacrifices by the Greek people — we must all agree that these sacrifices must be made in order to finally protect the armed forces," Mitsotakis told parliament late last month.


French fighters
Athens and Paris are in the final stages of negotiating a deal that is expected to lead to the purchase of around 18 Rafale fighter jets. The package is also expected to include the purchase of missiles and the maintenance of Greece's Mirage jet fighters.

Importantly for Greece, officials say they expect the deal will be followed by agreement on mutual defense assistance if either country is involved in a military confrontation.

However, Athens is also aiming to spread the money around. Greece is in talks with other countries over the purchase of military equipment, according to senior Greek officials, in a move that apart from boosting its armed forces also aims to purchase military backing from arms manufacturing countries, like the U.S., Germany, the U.K., Spain and the Netherlands.

GettyImages-1219078644-714x475.jpg

Greece is making a deal with France to purchase 18 Rafale fighter jets | Boris Horvat/AFP via Getty Images

There is a long line of ambassadors parading with their brochures into Greece's defense ministry these days, one official said.

The Greek government is also looking into procuring two to four new frigates. France's offer had a very hefty price tag and Athens will likely move ahead with an international tender to get more offers. Athens also plans to buy torpedoes — probably from Germany — and upgrade its Apache helicopters.

An upgrade to Greece’s F-16 jet fleet is already underway by Lockheed Martin of the United States and will be completed in 2027 at a cost of around €1.25 billion.

Crisis cuts
Due to the financial crisis that hit Greece hard over a decade, successive governments were forced to cut the budget to the bone and military spending was slashed by almost half, from €7.24 billion in 2008 to €3.75 billion in 2018, when Greece exited its bailout programs.

In terms of military spending as a percentage of GDP, Greece comes near the top of the NATO charts. Last year it spent some 2.28 percent of GDP on defense — more than the alliance’s target of 2 percent and far above the EU average of 1.2 percent.

However, Greece's GDP also shrank by around a quarter over the past decade.

“Under the effect of the decade-long crisis and despite the threat from the East, Greece has not proceeded with a purchase of a major weapons system since 2005,” said Faithon Karaiosifidis, a defense expert and publisher of the Greek magazine Flight.

He said the last serious effort to equip Greece's military took place after the Imia crisis of the mid-1990s, when Greece and Turkey came to the brink of war over two uninhabited islets in the Aegean.

“There is no armaments policy, there are no continuous purchases,” Karaiosifidis said. “You leave long periods without any purchases and then a crisis is coming and Greece is heading to the markets at the last minute to meet its needs and based on its diplomatic relations. When you go shopping in a supermarket-style, you buy expensive and not exactly what you need.”

Still, Karaiosifidis said that many of the problems accumulated over the last 15 years will be fixed and some important upgrades will be made.

Risks ahead
However, the decision to boost military spending also carries significant risks for the government.

Before the financial crisis, some of the country’s biggest scandals and corruption cases involved military procurement deals.

And while the planned spending boost currently enjoys broad political support, Mitsotakis could later find himself accused of focusing too much on the military.

“Mitsotakis was elected to turn the page on the economy, which was struggling even before the coronavirus outbreak. He is going to get distracted from what is the main objective and why he was elected,” said Wolfang Piccoli, co-president of political risk consulting firm Teneo Intelligence.

GettyImages-1204867427-714x475.jpg

The increase in military spending brings risks for Greece | Ozan Kose/AFP via Getty Images

The Greek budget deficit is expected to slide to 5 percent of GDP, as the pandemic has blown large holes in the state budget.

The European Commission has lifted the deficit rules for this year and next to help governments deal with the pandemic. But sooner or later, Greece will face the problem of how to return to surpluses — as it is required to do according to its bailout exit terms — and pay back its debts.

“There should be a debate on where this money is coming from and how it will be used and this cannot take place effectively at the moment because of the threat [of conflict with Turkey],” Piccoli said.

“The track record in terms of defense spending in Greece is not a great one. So the government has to manage these purchases in a very transparent way,” he said.

Piccoli said it also remained to be seen whether the agreement with France would be just a business deal or would really ensure that Athens could rely on Paris for military backing in a crisis.

“We can see that the French support is not that cheap. It raises a big question mark,” he said.

CORRECTION: This article has been updated to correct a time reference related to the collision between a Greek and a Turkish ship. The collision took place last month.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,474
Reactions
17 5,210
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Similar things happened in the past 15 years (examples: Type 214, NH 90, Leo2 Hel, Navy modernizations) military spending was supported by every side and later when the crisis hit hard the goverment and military was accused for bribery and only investing in Armed Forces.

Now Corona hit their already crumbled economy and they plan a much bigger shopping trip, still everyone supports it, but hey at least they understand that support is not cheap.
 

Vergennes

Experienced member
Moderator
Professional
France Moderator
Messages
1,522
Reactions
5,979
Nation of residence
France
Nation of origin
France
Greece to Buy 18 Rafale Fighters, Four New Frigates to Boost Defense


 

TR_123456

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,086
Reactions
12,677
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Greece to Buy 18 Rafale Fighters, Four New Frigates to Boost Defense


So,the costs will be divided 50/50 by France and Greece?
 

Vergennes

Experienced member
Moderator
Professional
France Moderator
Messages
1,522
Reactions
5,979
Nation of residence
France
Nation of origin
France
So,the costs will be divided 50/50 by France and Greece?

Sources of funding are unknown yet as the decision has just been announced. Credit lines,European fundings,fundings from Gulf countries... (unlikely but not impossible...)
 

Oublious

Experienced member
The Netherlands Correspondent
Messages
2,158
Reactions
8 4,659
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Greece to Buy 18 Rafale Fighters, Four New Frigates to Boost Defense



So when Greece economy crash are you going to save them or EU?
 
Y

Yoyo

Guest
Introducing a whole new type of fighter with all the spare parts, logistics, maintenance and training requirements is never a good idea. Especially such an expensive fighter as the Rafale, both to buy and to operate. Especially in such low numbers. Especially by a poor and heavily indebted country as Greece. And finally, especially when the Rafale doesn't really give Greece any "game changing" capabilities beyond what it already has.
 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sources of funding are unknown yet as the decision has just been announced. Credit lines,European fundings,fundings from Gulf countries... (unlikely but not impossible...)


Such kind of official statements like “we will buy 4 of this, 6 of that, 18 of these” seems to serve for “feel better” story. They have to face financial difficulties in this period of time that they feel disadvantages against a strong enemy as well. That is why they need to announce these things on public. We are talking about a state that has contracted around %16 in this quarter and can’t pay for pensioners but making a wish list worth more than tens of billions dollars. This 11 million nation has a dept load around 450 billion Euro but when It was looked at their behaviors, They must feel like they are an oil rich gulf state. Before this action, they had signed a deal to procure Israeli covettes but they are still seeking a warship to purchase. We will see ehat they will do in following days.
 

Bayraktar TB2

Contributor
Messages
595
Reactions
2,925
I'll believe when they sign it. Prime ministers of Greece announced a lot of things in the past and nothing came of it. Anyways we are talking about a ten year period in which then new type submarines, istif class frigates and strategic missiles will be in the inventory. Greece can't compete with the Turkish military industrial complex in the east med I'm sorry.
 
Y

Yoyo

Guest
Greek PM Mitsotakis: "Greece will boost its armed forces through the purchase of 18 Dassault-made Rafale fighter jets and four MEKO frigates and will hire 15,000 army personnel over the next five years,"


Why 18? Is that the size of one HAF fighter squad?
 

Oublious

Experienced member
The Netherlands Correspondent
Messages
2,158
Reactions
8 4,659
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Greek PM Mitsotakis: "Greece will boost its armed forces through the purchase of 18 Dassault-made Rafale fighter jets and four MEKO frigates and will hire 15,000 army personnel over the next five years,"


Why 18? Is that the size of one HAF fighter squad?


Thats the money they can spend...
 

Destan

Active member
Messages
35
Reactions
127
Ok, i can understand ships but buying 18 Rafale is just an act from a headless chicken.
The time and cost for training, facilities, etc. for 18 planes.... just stupid
 
Y

Yoyo

Guest
Thats the money they can spend...
Apparently Greece is paying for only 10 fighters. In addition to those, France is donating 8 used Rafales from its own Air Force for free to bring the total number of Greek rafales to 18. I thought maybe that number is tactically special for HAF.

Anyway, it doesn't seem to add any new capabilities. It's actually inferior to the F-16V and costing Greece €800 million for the 10 they're paying for. But the real trouble will be in keeping them air worthy. France is a notoriously expensive supplier when it comes to spare parts and Rafale has a high cost per flight hour ($45,000/hr). Even India is complaining about it: https://thewire.in/security/rafale-dassault-france-iaf-aircraft-fighter-jet-cost-ambala
 

Oublious

Experienced member
The Netherlands Correspondent
Messages
2,158
Reactions
8 4,659
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Apparently Greece is paying for only 10 fighters. In addition to those, France is donating 8 used Rafales from its own Air Force for free to bring the total number of Greek rafales to 18. I thought maybe that number is tactically special for HAF.

Anyway, it doesn't seem to add any new capabilities. It's actually inferior to the F-16V and costing Greece €800 million for the 10 they're paying for. But the real trouble will be in keeping them air worthy. France is a notoriously expensive supplier when it comes to spare parts and Rafale has a high cost per flight hour ($45,000/hr). Even India is complaining about it: https://thewire.in/security/rafale-dassault-france-iaf-aircraft-fighter-jet-cost-ambala


Good, they should buy it. In the end they will cause another financial crisis for EU.
 

Turan09

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
41
Ok, i can understand ships but buying 18 Rafale is just an act from a headless chicken.
The time and cost for training, facilities, etc. for 18 planes.... just stupid
It is. Because they are in panic and paranoia. We are quite pushing them about Mavi Vatan. And because of this, Typical greek audience needs some good news. And now they have it.
 

TR_123456

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,086
Reactions
12,677
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sources of funding are unknown yet as the decision has just been announced. Credit lines,European fundings,fundings from Gulf countries... (unlikely but not impossible...)
Thats a good one,im sure the UAE would love to take care of the costs(at least a part of it).
 
N

Null/Void

Guest
You dont have to be Turkophile or like Turks to know the facts that Greece is no match for Turkey at end of the day Greece is a tool or cannon fodder for various geopolitical actors looking to contain rivals this time Turkey is a rival so need to prop up Greece hell sane Greeks know this very much

 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom