Defence Q&A S-400 or F-35 for Turkey ? |Debate and Discussion

[what]

Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359050404454137856

 

[Combat-Master]

Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359050404454137856

I just see him pointing out the hypocrisy of S-300 Greece and S-400 Turkey, which he does often anyway..

 

[the]

It would be better to deploy it in Libya or sell it to Azerbaijan. Atleast this way: you don't risk more sanctions, you have access to F35 (even if only a few are bought to help bridge the gap with the TF-X program), you protect assets that are not easily accessible e.g. Navy base in Misrata or Al-Wattiya air base + further protection for GNA - helps increase relations.

And if Siper is currently under development and Hisar A & O+ is almost ready then S400 will become obsolete in the near future.

Even better, if the F35 purchased is the B variant, then it can be used on TCG Anadolu.

 

[Deliorman]

Getting the S-400 was a stupid decision- we should have better invested the time and money lost into our own developments instead of buying this Russian trash.

Yet even without it they would have kicked us out of the F-35 program and we would never see them on our soil. Even if you get rid of the S-400 they will tell you- stop your genocide in Artsakh and stop terrorizing the Armenians. If not that- get out of Syria and stop killing the Kurds. If not that- get out of Libya. Stop your occupation of Cyprus. Stop your expansionist policies in the Eastern Mediterranean. You are a dictatorship with no minority and LGBTQ rights etc and etc. Turkey is seen as a potential threat to Israel so don’t expect anything else.

The F-35 and any Western jet is a closed chapter for Turkey. We better use the S-400 the best way possible with studying it well and put all our resources on developing our own alternatives.

Hurjet, TFX, Hisar and Siper are the way to go for us and we should not even look back.

 

[Combat-Master]

Getting the S-400 was a stupid decision- we should have better invested the time and money lost into our own developments instead of buying this Russian trash.

Yet even without it they would have kicked us out of the F-35 program and we would never see them on our soil. Even if you get rid of the S-400 they will tell you- stop your genocide in Artsakh and stop terrorizing the Armenians. If not that- get out of Syria and stop killing the Kurds. If not that- get out of Libya. Stop your occupation of Cyprus. Stop your expansionist policies in the Eastern Mediterranean. You are a dictatorship with no minority and LGBTQ rights etc and etc. Turkey is seen as a potential threat to Israel so don’t expect anything else.

The F-35 and any Western jet is a closed chapter for Turkey. We better use the S-400 the best way possible with studying it well and put all our resources on developing our own alternatives.

Hurjet, TFX, Hisar and Siper are the way to go for us and we should not even look back.

IMO S400 was an excuse for US to act the way it did in cutting Turkey off from the F-35 programme. We have been butting heads in Syria and Iraq, our interests do not match in the medium term.

 

[Deliorman]

IMO S400 was an excuse for US to act the way it did in cutting Turkey off from the F-35 programme. We have been butting heads in Syria and Iraq, our interests do not match in the medium term.

Well yeah... it was nothing other than a stupid excuse. Maybe Erdogan knew it too so he was like- I better at least take this deal instead of ending with empty hands.

The UAE buys weaponry from Russia, China and North Korea, supports Al Shabab, Haftar in Libya and all kinds of terror groups from Yemen to Syria + PMC Wagner yet it’s okay to sell them F-35s, Reapers and munitions for 10$ billion. But nobody in the Senate and the Pentagon cares because Emiratis are now bigger Zionists than Netanyahu himself.

 

[Zafer]

A US general once said "We desperately need to sell F35 to Turkey"

 

[Yasar_TR]

Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359050404454137856

I have yet to see something positive coming out of what this guy says. Usually when I see a news with his name, I don’t even bother to read the details, just the headlines!

 

[the]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359133408048340997

According to Ragip Soylu, Trump offered to sell Patriots and allow Turkey back into the F35 programme if S400s are not activated.

Turkey proposes 'Greek model' to address S-400 missile crisis

Defence minister says Ankara doesn't need to keep Russian missile system operational all the time in an attempt to placate Washington

www.middleeasteye.net

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Ardabas34]

It is not about the S400s I cant believe so many analists miss this. I thought this reality was exposed when Israel did the same lobbying against UAE too.

Edit: If US is indeed bluffing about F-35 and will give it after some point then we will say ''ala'' the day it happens but we must always act like they will never give it.

 

[mulj]

Swallow the pill and move on, usa and russia screwed you in duet, ping pong is irrelevant. If lesson is learned properly it means you should never ever relly on foreign strategic militiary equipmemt again.

 

[Turko]

Show us G-40s, SIPERs, HİSARs, SAPANs.
We miss too much, nowadays this topic is meager.

 

[Stuka]

I am questioning this decision, the more days pass.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359138245225947144

Back in 2019, Trump offered a way out of the S400 procurement. Instead of activating the S400 ADS the USGOV offered a return to F35 Program and Patriots.
This offer was later denied by the Turkish government due to lack of ToT etc.

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The S400 were schedule to be Operational on the 04/2020

Ankara: S-400 savunma sistemi Nisan 2020'de faal olacak - BBC News Türkçe

Milli Savunma Bakanlığı, Rusya'dan yaklaşık 2,5 milyar dolar bedel ödenerek satın alınan S-400'lerin ikinci batarya malzemelerinin Ankara'ya geldiğini duyurdu. Bakanlıktan yapılan açıklamada, 'sistemin Nisan 2020'de faal hale getirilmesi planlanmaktadır' denildi.

www.bbc.com

But now in early 2021, the 1st System which was delieverd to the Akinci Air Base is still there.

 

[adenl]

I am questioning this decision, the more days pass.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359138245225947144

Back in 2019, Trump offered a way out of the S400 procurement. Instead of activating the S400 ADS the USGOV offered a return to F35 Program and Patriots.
This offer was later denied by the Turkish government due to lack of ToT etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The S400 were schedule to be Operational on the 04/2020

Ankara: S-400 savunma sistemi Nisan 2020'de faal olacak - BBC News Türkçe

Milli Savunma Bakanlığı, Rusya'dan yaklaşık 2,5 milyar dolar bedel ödenerek satın alınan S-400'lerin ikinci batarya malzemelerinin Ankara'ya geldiğini duyurdu. Bakanlıktan yapılan açıklamada, 'sistemin Nisan 2020'de faal hale getirilmesi planlanmaktadır' denildi.

www.bbc.com

But now in early 2021, the 1st System which was delieverd to the Akinci Air Base is still there.

View attachment 13778

Wasn't it used during a test in the north of Turkey a couple months ago if I remember correctly? At Sinop?

 

[Stuka]

Wasn't it used during a test in the north of Turkey a couple months ago if I remember correctly? At Sinop?

It was actually in October.

S-400’ler test atışı için Sinop’a gönderildi! 10 uçak vurulacak

Geçtiğimiz yıl Rusya'dan alınan ancak bir türlü aktif hale getirilemeyen S-400 hava savunma sistemleri test atışları için Sinop’a gönderildi.

www.internethaber.com

Its safe to assume that they aren't activated 24/7. Thus the Satellite Image to Backup the claim.

 

[adenl]

It was actually in October.

S-400’ler test atışı için Sinop’a gönderildi! 10 uçak vurulacak

Geçtiğimiz yıl Rusya'dan alınan ancak bir türlü aktif hale getirilemeyen S-400 hava savunma sistemleri test atışları için Sinop’a gönderildi.

www.internethaber.com

Its safe to assume that they aren't activated 24/7. Thus the Satellite Image to Backup the claim.

Yes, these systems are scarce, large, bulky and politically sensitive. In Turkeys case, it is wise to not have them to operate frequently. One can expect them to be operated when tensions are high though.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yes, these systems are scarce, large, bulky and politically sensitive. In Turkeys case, it is wise to not have them to operate frequently. One can expect them to be operated when tensions are high though.

Also they are very high in energy consumption. They have a limited life span as well. More you use them quicker they will need parts changed.

 

[Zafer]

Yes, these systems are scarce, large, bulky and politically sensitive. In Turkeys case, it is wise to not have them to operate frequently. One can expect them to be operated when tensions are high though.

The fact that we are progressing in the deployment of our national systems is allowing us to use the S400 as a back up system rather than the primary system. Should some countries go rouge we take it up. This can bring up new possibilities to buy more time.

 

[CAN_TR]

Even before the S-400 was a topic in Turkey the Jewish lobby in the USA was pretty active in preventing the F-35 deal.

The only thing we lost from the F-35 programm is the nice $12 billion industrial participation and the F-35B variant. It is a no-go for me to rely 100% on another Gen. of American fighter aircrafts, especially if you are so dependent on Lockheed/USA for upgrades etc.

Rather take the money and dump it on R&D instead.

 

[Saithan]

It would be better to deploy it in Libya or sell it to Azerbaijan. Atleast this way: you don't risk more sanctions, you have access to F35 (even if only a few are bought to help bridge the gap with the TF-X program), you protect assets that are not easily accessible e.g. Navy base in Misrata or Al-Wattiya air base + further protection for GNA - helps increase relations.

And if Siper is currently under development and Hisar A & O+ is almost ready then S400 will become obsolete in the near future.

Even better, if the F35 purchased is the B variant, then it can be used on TCG Anadolu.

There is no guarentee that we’ll get F35. They can postpone it for as long as they want. So you like the idea they give us F35 in 10-15 years ?