Turkish "Mini Subs" for the Aegean?

[Yoyo]

What do you guys think about using a large number of "mini subs" as a naval area denial weapon for the Aegean / East Med theater?

Iran, for example, seems to be quite successful with their Ghadir-class midget submarines which they use to threaten shutting down the Persian Gulf with.

These have an endurance of about 2 weeks and carry 6 torpedoes.

Turkey can easily produce similar subs with a lot more technologically advanced components, national sonar and torpedoes. Add a 4-cell VLS with ATMACA launch capability and you've got a total hunter-killer in your hands. In sufficient numbers they can become a nightmare of anything that moves in the Aegean/East Med. They can also be used for SAT/SAS infiltration/exfiltration missions.

 

[bsruzm]

I am wondering why don't we have such solution unmanned?

 

[TR_123456]

What do you guys think about using a large number of "mini subs" as a naval area denial weapon for the Aegean / East Med theater?

Iran, for example, seems to be quite successful with their Ghadir-class midget submarines which they use to threaten shutting down the Persian Gulf with.

View attachment 1389

These have an endurance of about 2 weeks and carry 6 torpedoes.

Turkey can easily produce similar subs with a lot more technologically advanced components, national sonar and torpedoes. Add a 4-cell VLS with ATMACA launch capability and you've got a total hunter-killer in your hands. In sufficient numbers they can become a nightmare of anything that moves in the Aegean/East Med. They can also be used for SAT/SAS infiltration/exfiltration missions.

We already have designs ready and offered to Pakistan.

Pakistan proceeds with new miniature submarine program

In its annual disclosure, Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production listed the development and construction of a miniature submarine

quwa.org

 

[triangle]

These have an endurance of about 2 weeks and carry 6 torpedoes.

Correction, it has 2 torpedo tubes (533mm) with just 2 torpedo's

 

[Cabatli_TR]

What do you guys think about using a large number of "mini subs" as a naval area denial weapon for the Aegean / East Med theater?

Iran, for example, seems to be quite successful with their Ghadir-class midget submarines which they use to threaten shutting down the Persian Gulf with.

View attachment 1389

These have an endurance of about 2 weeks and carry 6 torpedoes.

Turkey can easily produce similar subs with a lot more technologically advanced components, national sonar and torpedoes. Add a 4-cell VLS with ATMACA launch capability and you've got a total hunter-killer in your hands. In sufficient numbers they can become a nightmare of anything that moves in the Aegean/East Med. They can also be used for SAT/SAS infiltration/exfiltration missions.

Defence Turkey: STM is also involved in the Pakistani Navy’s Miniature Submarine Program that includes 3 Cosmos MG110 (SX756 / W) mini submarines which were purchased in the 1980s and are currently in the inventory. At the signing ceremony held on February 8, 2019, you presented the scale model of the new design mini submarine to the officials of the Pakistani Ministry of Defence Production. What would you like to say about this Project?

Murat İKİNCİ: The first project prepared by STM in line with the needs of the Pakistan Naval Forces was submitted in 2017. Within this framework, efforts on the design of small-sized submarines capable of addressing a wider market are continuing within the scheduled plan.

 

[Deliorman]

For a long time I have been thinking that we should copy some of Iran’s defense policies too which are not only cheap but effective.
We should not only invest in small and mobile submarines but also in fast attack crafts that are able to launch missiles. Mobility and quantity are very important on the battle field and I am sure that our engineers can easily create something deadly if the political will for it is there.
We should also invest much more into the development of all kinds ballistic missiles too- we should make all our enemies thinks about the opportunity of a missile landing in their cities 24/7.

ps They are pretty good in proxy warfare so we should copy that too.

 

[YourTurkishMaster]

We must use try and error more often in defence matters. We must try what works and what does not work. I think minisubs work but a SARP Turret on Firtina howitzers don´t work. Because howitzers must work in a secured area, watched out by infantry units.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

SARP Turret on Firtina howitzers don´t work. Because howitzers must work in a secured area, watched out by infantry units.

When Turkey captures territory there and places its military assets in there, there is always the risk of a confrontation. Having SARP turrets on Firtinas is good, in fact all Turkish military vehicles should have a basic form of protection.


Back to the topic of mini-subs, yes I think they are necessary for us. They are perfect for our situation. I really hope we consider acquiring them, whether manned or unmanned.

 

[Saithan]

I think we can make a sensor/surveillance system much more effective using smart buoy system/network. with seabed torpedo launchpads.

Of course launch command must come from HQ or TN in the area.

smart buoy network could also function as a spiderweb of surveillance system to locate enemies much quicker for our UAV.

Minisubs, I'd go with electric engine as demonstrated by the swedes very deadly.

 

[TR_123456]

We need such a system,

The Navy Just Ordered the 'Orca,' an Extra-Large Unmanned Submarine by Boeing

The U.S. Navy has awarded a contract to Boeing for four Extra-Large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (XLUUVs). In other words: giant drone subs.

The unmanned submarines, called Orcas, will be able to undertake missions from scouting to sinking ships at very long ranges. Drone ships like the Orca will revolutionize war at sea, providing inexpensive, semi-disposable weapon systems that can fill the gaps in the front line—or simply go where it’s too dangerous for manned ships to go.

The contract, announced today, stipulates Boeing will get $43 million for “fabrication, test, and delivery of four Orca Extra Large Unmanned Undersea Vehicles (XLUUVs) and associated support elements.” That’s just over ten million bucks per boat.

The Navy Is Buying Boeing's Drone Submarine Called 'Orca'

The Orca unmanned autonomous submersible will be capable of crossing entire oceans and fulfilling a variety of missions, from hunting mines to sinking submarines.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

We need such a system,

The Navy Just Ordered the 'Orca,' an Extra-Large Unmanned Submarine by Boeing

View attachment 1427


The U.S. Navy has awarded a contract to Boeing for four Extra-Large Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (XLUUVs). In other words: giant drone subs.

The unmanned submarines, called Orcas, will be able to undertake missions from scouting to sinking ships at very long ranges. Drone ships like the Orca will revolutionize war at sea, providing inexpensive, semi-disposable weapon systems that can fill the gaps in the front line—or simply go where it’s too dangerous for manned ships to go.

The contract, announced today, stipulates Boeing will get $43 million for “fabrication, test, and delivery of four Orca Extra Large Unmanned Undersea Vehicles (XLUUVs) and associated support elements.” That’s just over ten million bucks per boat.

The Navy Is Buying Boeing's Drone Submarine Called 'Orca'

The Orca unmanned autonomous submersible will be capable of crossing entire oceans and fulfilling a variety of missions, from hunting mines to sinking submarines.

www.popularmechanics.com

Something tells me that we will have a major unmanned submarine project revealed in the near future. It just seems like it would be the logical next step for our navy.

 

[Anmdt]

Something tells me that we will have a major unmanned submarine project revealed in the near future. It just seems like it would be the logical next step for our navy.

We should have it by 2010s, already got behind by 10 years and still none is interested in such a project.
I am even OK with a small UUV study.

 

[Saithan]

We should have it by 2010s, already got behind by 10 years and still none is interested in such a project.
I am even OK with a small UUV study.

Considering threat perception, UAV were pretty openly developed. But that is due to the conflicts in ME.

If we start developing UUV / minisubs openly wouldn't our "allies" start asking, what are you going to use that for, you have troubles in Syria, Iraq, Iran...

Just like they are asking. "What's TN doing west of Girit, aren't you moving too far away from your coastline.."

I think one way telling the public what's being done is through some smaller scale civilian projects. minisubs for seabed research of corals, UUV to clean up seabeds from plastic and other stuff.

If we built an oil/gas platform on open sea we would need UUV /ROV to do some work subsurface, so we'd have good reason to develop such nice vehicles.

 

[Ryder]

Basically everything will be unmanned even infantry will be replaced with robot soldiers.

Seriously a lot of people think its far fetched but I really think its going to be the future.

 

[Saithan]

Basically everything will be unmanned even infantry will be replaced with robot soldiers.

Seriously a lot of people think its far fetched but I really think its going to be the future.

Spacemarine... We already have the chapter ready, Space Wolves.

 

[Ryder]

Spacemarine... We already have the chapter ready, Space Wolves.

Galatic Turk Empire!!!

 

[Turan09]

Won't be effective in Eastern Mediterrain due to sea depth but aegan? In theory, it could be a real force multiplier. We should work on this.

 

[Blackeyes90]

Won't be effective in Eastern Mediterrain due to sea depth but aegan? In theory, it could be a real force multiplier. We should work on this.

What do you mean sea depth ? If you mean Mediterrean Sea is a swallow sea you are mistaken.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aylin_Akkaya2/publication/323014522/figure/fig1/AS:613513844252694@1523284507274/The-Mediterranean-Sea-with-depth-contours-and-submarine-features-Encyclopedia.png

 

[Turan09]

What do you mean sea depth ? If you mean Mediterrean Sea is a swallow sea you are mistaken.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aylin_Akkaya2/publication/323014522/figure/fig1/AS:613513844252694@1523284507274/The-Mediterranean-Sea-with-depth-contours-and-submarine-features-Encyclopedia.png

What I mean is, Where does Iran uses it's midget submarines? Persian Gulf. And why midget subs are quite effective there? Because sea dept is quite low and you don't need to dive too deep. I see the same pattern for aegan. Not just dept but also numerous little islands everywhere might hide and also might creat a opportunity for Turkish Midget submarine fleet for hit and run tactics.
PS; I didn't knew that it is quite shallow in Cyprus too. Thanks.

 

[Turko]

I would prefer semi submergible unmanned vessels.
Being semisubmergible you would avoid a lot of expensive details.