Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Madokafc

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SUT torpedo is also a good example, it wasn't further than assembly of critical parts but still some parts were produced in there, at least there was a production line. It was achieved in 90s.

Actually yes, if the first chance taken,then +2 Cakra would be produced in Indonesia but there was a second chance in 90s with refit of Type 206 and transferring those to Indonesia for MLU (rather extending operational life upgrade). I know +2 Cakra didn't pass beyond negotiation. And I presume the Type 206s were fallen because of the transition from Suharto and asian economic crisis.
So my bet would be those blueprints and tools belong to Type206s, since first two hulls were about to be shipped and cancelled in last minute. So some preps might have taken place in Indonesia to start refit. MLU is a much effective way to learn how to build something,and how to integrate it so it was much better and cheaper chance.

And i think corruption shouldn't be an excuse for that, it is just cheaper, simpler and easier to buy it through credits which paid in portions, and hand's not getting dirty in mud. I know what you refer to with some people tend to love some products, that was happening in Turkey too and even still creates a resistance in acquisition. (Also happened in Korea, some high ranks resisted to local products implying "lower performance")

And that's there is other big reason too, top to bottom policy of B.J. Habibie during his long term tenure as then powerfull Ministry of Research and Technology. In which he is emphasize the development of platform first compared to the development of sub system components and parts. Either FPB 57 or CN235 at the time of his term had a lower local content compared to today KCR 60 and CN235 in which got much higher local content of components and parts and system and it is understandable for the nature of dictatorial government which much to do for mercusuar projects of Soeharto.

I just wish Indonesia can learn from past lesson, and i would be very glad if Indonesia can achieved high degree of Independen in the development of system and sub system for future projects either it is in Submarine or Surface combatant warships. I don't give much thought of Indonesia must be able to design indigenous platform or not, but after the building phase is finished Indonesia should be able to overcame the needs to import or dependence from foreign supplier for another project or maintenance of the said system.
 

Anmdt

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FPB57 is another story for Turkey, designed by a Turkish Naval Architect Erbil Serter with French parts, later a variant of it was exported by France, collaborating with him as "PR72", Turkish Navy Admirals neglected him meanwhile, but in fact liked his design but declined an offer to build it in Turkey right away, the plans-drawings were sent to Lürssen by the admiral as a "reference", without informing the design owner, Erbil Serter. In a few months Lürssen pulled out FPB57 design, which in fact would take a year or two to develop, and offered it back to Turkey with German parts which serves/served in Turkish navy as Doğan, Rüzgar and Yıldız Class FAC.
Happened same with SAR 33-35 class of boats, He designed it ,gave design for free to Navy, neglected, Abeking Rassmusen has bought his design for a high value,re-sold to Turkey. SAR -> Serter & Abeking Rassmusen.

So history is usually filled up with mistakes.
 

Madokafc

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165325954_3508629579245360_9177894511586834146_o.jpg
 

Van Kravchenko

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The Gundam ships are coming YAAAAY
Here the price tag.

1. Egypt has reportedly placed an order for two Italian FREMM Bergamini-class frigates for $1.2 billion.

2. A contract was formally awarded to Babcock Group on 15 November 2019, for an average production cost of £250 million per ship and an overall program cost set to be £2 billion with £1.25 billion value to prime contractor Babcock.

3. Currently, 8 ships have signed contracts, and 2 ships are to be built every year. According to overseas media reports, the cost of 30FFM is about 50 billion yen per vessel, or about 3.1 billion yuan. This price has exceeded China's 052D destroyer.


A Italian export variant of FREMM cost roughly US$ 600 million, type 31 Arrowhead 140 have base price of US$ 350 million, then the 30 FFM sell at roughly US$ 460 million dollars.

In this case, despite has a lowest price arrowhead 140, also got the lowest shopisticated equipment to put at the frontline since its design as a support vessel of Type 26.

Not to mention all of the vesdel above has base conviguration for 16 VLS.
 

NEKO

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Here the price tag.

1. Egypt has reportedly placed an order for two Italian FREMM Bergamini-class frigates for $1.2 billion.

2. A contract was formally awarded to Babcock Group on 15 November 2019, for an average production cost of £250 million per ship and an overall program cost set to be £2 billion with £1.25 billion value to prime contractor Babcock.

3. Currently, 8 ships have signed contracts, and 2 ships are to be built every year. According to overseas media reports, the cost of 30FFM is about 50 billion yen per vessel, or about 3.1 billion yuan. This price has exceeded China's 052D destroyer.


A Italian export variant of FREMM cost roughly US$ 600 million, type 31 Arrowhead 140 have base price of US$ 350 million, then the 30 FFM sell at roughly US$ 460 million dollars.

In this case, despite has a lowest price arrowhead 140, also got the lowest shopisticated equipment to put at the frontline since its design as a support vessel of Type 26.

Not to mention all of the vesdel above has base conviguration for 16 VLS.
But because it will be FFBNW we only need to allocate less budget when purchasing the ship, well we still need to allocate more budget later. Tapi kan later, jadi bisa dilebgkapi sedikit sedikitlah.
 

NEKO

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The 16 VLS cell is extremely worrisome (particularly from end user perspective). We need at least 32 cell for escorting our gator fleet
Depends, AAW or General Purpose Frigate, but now we are looking for General purpose, 16 VLS cell still not enough?
If its for AAW then we should try to get 32 VLS cell.
 

trishna_amrta

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Depends, AAW or General Purpose Frigate, but now we are looking for General purpose, 16 VLS cell still not enough?
If its for AAW then we should try to get 32 VLS cell.
Well General Purpose ought to be able to defend at least herself is it not. Moreover, not every missile launch will hit their target doesn't matter what brand of missile is. Need at least 2 missile / target. Imagine saturated missile attack toward our gator fleet when that happen with only 16 VLS that may or may not even fully loaded
 

Madokafc

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They would try to get as much as possible platform first, for the fitting they would adjust it later when budget available or condition must force them. Every conflict would have escalation period, not just blowing up so suddenly. This time is the escalation period though.
 

Van Kravchenko

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Tapi kan later
need at least 32 cell
Both of time and size could be a troublesome.
As for FFBNW, all of Navy combatant vessel at first place were ordered FFBNW, with the notion the provisional Space is put prior weaponery instalation.

Also, the user never bother to radically rework the structure of a vessel, end user should put in specification down to the paper if they want more armament.

For me a peasant with bare eye, the 3 ship above still has space to be installed with other VLS, take note Improved Carli Bergamini Comes with 32 VLS without major structural rework such as France AAW FREMM
the aggressor
Do we really into a fray of hostility any soon ?

Gosh, im not married yet.
 

trishna_amrta

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This time is the escalation period though.

Do we really into a fray of hostility any soon ?

Gosh, im not married yet.
Its pretty "warm up" in cyber domain. And I wasn't referring to those trolls & buzzers either. So far its just "probing efforts", afterward its usually escalate into "testing the red line" (happen already against 🇺🇸), next infrastructure such as finance (all those cashless payment) and power grid will be hit (say goodbye to your electricity & internet)

Anyway, I haven't married too
 

Anmdt

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Well General Purpose ought to be able to defend at least herself is it not. Moreover, not every missile launch will hit their target doesn't matter what brand of missile is. Need at least 2 missile / target. Imagine saturated missile attack toward our gator fleet when that happen with only 16 VLS that may or may not even fully loaded
without quad-packed point defense missiles , a good layered air defense system and fixed AESA radar,even 64 cell will not save the situation.
Get CAMM or ESSM and problem half solved, 16 cells = 64 missille
Also APAR guidance is needed to encounter saturation attacks, otherwise engagement per vessel will be limited and will require a proper cooperation between vessels to encounter all by workload sharing. So get an APAR capable radar and problem fully solved.
With APAR guidance a single vessel can illuminate high number of targets at once meanwhile keep scanning through entire domain.
 

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Japan to iron out deal on arms exports to Indonesia​

Inking pact at 'two plus two' meeting with regional power will symbolize a united front against China

https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F8%252F4%252F1%252F0%252F33280148-1-eng-GB%252Fphoto_SXM2021032800007609.jpg

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, left, and Japanese counterpart Nobuo Kishi meet at the Defense Ministry building in Tokyo on March 28. © Kyodo

JUNNOSUKE KOBARA, Nikkei staff writer
March 29, 2021 06:36 JST

TOKYO -- Japan hopes to sign an agreement with Indonesia on Tuesday to clear the way for exports of defense equipment amid stepped-up Chinese activities at sea.

 

Gary

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Here's the full article

Japan to iron out deal on arms exports to Indonesia​

Inking pact at 'two plus two' meeting with regional power will symbolize a united front against China
https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F8%252F4%252F1%252F0%252F33280148-1-eng-GB%252Fphoto_SXM2021032800007609.jpg

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, left, and Japanese counterpart Nobuo Kishi meet at the Defense Ministry building in Tokyo on March 28. © Kyodo
JUNNOSUKE KOBARA, Nikkei staff writerMarch 29, 2021 06:36 JST
TOKYO -- Japan hopes to sign an agreement with Indonesia on Tuesday to clear the way for exports of defense equipment amid stepped-up Chinese activities at sea.
Foreign and defense ministers from the two countries are slated to meet in "two-plus-two" talks here that day to seal the deal.
Japan exports military hardware only to countries with which it has signed agreements on transfers of defense equipment and technology. The documents spell out such rules as a requirement that the recipient obtain Tokyo's permission before reselling the equipment to another party.

Agreements have been signed with nine countries so far, consisting of the U.S. and others mostly in Europe. In Southeast Asia, the Philippines and Malaysia have inked deals, while the leaders of Japan and Vietnam reached an agreement in principle at their October 2020 meeting.
A deal with regional power Indonesia could come to symbolize a joint effort between Japan and neighbors to counter the Chinese threat. Tokyo is expected to consider selling such hardware as ships.
Interest has been strong in Japanese technologies related to detecting objects and saving lives, such as radar and rescue aircraft. Since many small and midsize businesses are involved in manufacturing defense equipment, one of Japan's aims is to prop up its defense industry by boosting exports.
In the past, Japan prohibited exports of all defense equipment. It partly lifted the ban in 2014 by setting three principles: barring exports to countries involved in conflicts, allowing exports that contribute to peace and to Japan's security, and requiring Tokyo's consent for resale to another country. The agreement on the transfer of defense equipment and technology forms the legal basis for ensuring that the recipient follows the three principles.

Defense Minister Nobuo Kishi met with Indonesian counterpart Prabowo Subianto here on Sunday. Kishi told Prabowo that a new Chinese law that explicitly grants broad powers to the coast guard and confirms its quasi-military status is problematic with regard to international law. The two sides agreed to maintain and strengthen a free and open maritime order, as well as to hold joint drills in the South China Sea.
The Indonesian defense minister said the country is in negotiations on the possibility of acquiring Japanese equipment to modernize national defense.
 

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