TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377941405201526787

 

[Bogeyman]

but did we ever think the problem may stem from Germans not trusting BMC?

I guess you have forgotten that BMC entered the Tank Tender with Germans. When Erdogan drop the tender price to 3.5 billion euros, the Germans said they will not produce tank for free. And they were withdrawn from the tender. It is an imaginary assertion that the Germans do not trust BMC.

 

[Ryder]

Tümosan pulled out an engine earlier than BMC, who is funded greatly, and FNSS is going to deliver a 6x6 (or 8x8 ) in future with more local systems than BMC would do.
In my opinion FNSS should do wheeled APC /IFV deliveries for the rest as well, BMC should only focus to the Tank (apart from their earlier business in 4x4).
We don't need another fiasco for wheeled armored vehicles as well.

At least they shouldn't showcase the otokar prototype , again and again with tapes and glues on it with mock up systems, they should actually make one .
The tank has been in their hands for years they haven't done much in progress as they claimed to "redesign" it , i am not yet talking about the engine issue since it would be defended by " Germans not selling the engine", but did we ever think the problem may stem from Germans not trusting BMC? (Note this has happened for TRMotor)

That is just an excuse, 2 years later we have heard there are some engines in the storage and low rate production would start with those engines, again nothing has come out of that after a year has passed.
It is obviously, they are still-despite of acquiring Tank-Palet, not capable of making a Tank.

As if the Germans will give the engines even if Otokar won.

Remember this they have the power to pull the plug.

Im critical of bmc and otokar. Its retarded to think that the Germans did not give the mtu due to BMC.

 

[Nutuk]

I guess you have forgotten that BMC entered the Tank Tender with Germans. When Erdogan drop the tender price to 3.5 billion euros, the Germans said they will not produce tank for free. And they were withdrawn from the tender. It is an imaginary assertion that the Germans do not trust BMC.

$18mln per tank is not for free.

and Rheinmetall did not drop out because of the price, they did so because Germany did not allow. Why are you pretending the Germans left because of price, which is freakishly high

 

[Bogeyman]

$18mln per tank is not for free.

and Rheinmetall did not drop out because of the price, they did so because Germany did not allow. Why are you pretending the Germans left because of price, which is freakishly high

In 2019, the ethem had announced the subject. We've given 4 billion final price. Erdogan's has down the price to 3.5 billion euros says. While the tender continued, Germany's embargo has not yet begun.

Is the price high? Koç group wanted 2 times the price for a tank. Euro 7 billion! 28 million euro per tank! Bullshit!
Even if you do the best tank of the Earth, you cannot ask for a tank 28 million euros. That cannot be the right of anyone. This is robbery!

 

[Nutuk]

So it is Ethems job to announce the tender revelations.

Why has SSB kept mum, never announced the tender results? A bit shame perhaps? The whole process stinks from all sides.

One thing you are correct, there is indeed a robbery going on

 

[Masesebe]

We all know what turkey used to be before 2000s .
The thing that lack in this thread is that people dont know politics .
Even if otokar won the bid , the germans will block the engines of the altay tank .
And we all know and saw the filthy move they did when they decided not to give turkey the engines after finishing the projects .
Like it or not , bmc is a necessary solution for turkey , why , because the opposition in turkey will do its best to make it harder on the current government to pour money on military projects to make them happen .
Every country in the world needs a strong military to reach the point of independence and thats need money .
And the west system making it hard on turkey to make this happen .
Even in israel where there are a lot of problems but when it comes to money and military both people and goverment are agreed to make things happens no matter what .
So turkey ,i think it os the perfect choice to participate with qatar , a roch friendly country for turkey , so money will be not an issue .
And we are now seeing a lot of progress . And we will see turkey achieving its goals in the near future .
And i think in three to five years if tirkey keep doing their current work they will achieve complete independence in land systems .
Engines is a critical equipment for everything and making and designing them will take money more than time .
Thats what bmc and qatar come for .
It will make it happen and easier .

 

[Anmdt]

In 2019, the ethem had announced the subject. We've given 4 billion final price. Erdogan's has down the price to 3.5 billion euros says. While the tender continued, Germany's embargo has not yet begun.

Is the price high? Koç group wanted 2 times the price for a tank. Euro 7 billion! 28 million euro per tank! Bullshit!
Even if you do the best tank of the Earth, you cannot ask for a tank 28 million euros. That cannot be the right of anyone. This is robbery!

Please enlighten me then, why Fırtına II is being bought a lot more expensive after BMC has acquired the factory?
How come BMC is allowed to make profits from a system which they neither designed or collaborated to the construction? Tank Palet can naturally make them.
Wasn't it supposed to get cheaper if BMC has a magic to lower the prices?

Other questions:
And what will be actual price of Altay after taken into account all incentives and land and other privileges BMC has received, and in fact we also know BMC will be paid as much as it costs + the profit for the first few part in low initial production rate.
Will it actually pass onto a serial production phase, there is still no factory,not to be launched anytime soon in the scale to actually reduce the price per units as claimed by half.

Does it actually make sense that a product can be made for half the price, given that its most expensive parts are electronics, cannon, armor and engine which has a fixed price and made by other companies, without actually those parts are being serially produced thus their prices are reduced?

If BMC can make it cheaper as told, then why everything is being told to be" secret" and not being transparent.

Btw i know answer of the most, just asking to make people aware of a fairytale that BMC will make it for the half price.

 

[Masesebe]

In the end , everyone is talking their minds , so lets just wait and see .
Doing and making things is better than making statues and make turkey go back in time .
We all know in what shale turkey was before 2000 .

 

[Masesebe]

Please enlighten me then, why Fırtına II is being bought a lot more expensive after BMC has acquired the factory?
How come BMC is allowed to make profits from a system which they neither designed or collaborated to the construction? Tank Palet can naturally make them.
Wasn't it supposed to get cheaper if BMC has a magic to lower the prices?

Other questions:
And what will be actual price of Altay after taken into account all incentives and land and other privileges BMC has received, and in fact we also know BMC will be paid as much as it costs + the profit for the first few part in low initial production rate.
Will it actually pass onto a serial production phase, there is still no factory,not to be launched anytime soon in the scale to actually reduce the price per units as claimed by half.

Does it actually make sense that a product can be made for half the price, given that its most expensive parts are electronics, cannon, armor and engine which has a fixed price and made by other companies, without actually those parts are being serially produced thus their prices are reduced?

If BMC can make it cheaper as told, then why everything is being told to be" secret" and not being transparent.

Btw i know answer of the most, just asking to make people aware of a fairytale that BMC will make it for the half price.

Do you know the price of firtina 2 ?! .
Coming please , there are things we ordinary people should not know there are secrets .
We all know that they are working on utku engine . Real world is not minecraft . It takes time and money .
Lets say that all the bid go to other companies , can we still get domestic engines or engines from germany .
What do you want turkey to do i dont know how some peope think .

 

[Anmdt]

Do you know the price of firtina 2 ?! .
Coming please , there are things we ordinary people should not know there are secrets .
We all know that they are working on utku engine . Real world is not minecraft . It takes time and money .
Lets say that all the bid go to other companies , can we still get domestic engines or engines from germany .
What do you want turkey to do i dont know how some peope think .

Yenilenen Fırtına Obüslerinde seri üretime geçiliyor: İki obüs fiyatına 5 adet imal edilecek | Savunma Sanayi Haberleri

Milli imkanlarla üretilen, TSK'nin vurucu gücü ve sınır güvenliğinin vazgeçilmezi Fırtına obüslerinin yeni nesillerinin seri üretimine başlanıyor. Türk Harb-İş Sendikası Genel Başkan Danışmanı Tarkan Zengin, Sakarya 1. Ana Bakım Fabrikasında üretilecek 'Yeni Nesil Fırtına II Obüsleri'nden üçünün...

www.yenisafak.com

Appearantly price of firtina I wasn't a secret too,
At least, for another reasons shouldn't it be disclosed how much profit BMC earns per unit? What is so secret about it?

 

[Masesebe]

Yenilenen Fırtına Obüslerinde seri üretime geçiliyor: İki obüs fiyatına 5 adet imal edilecek | Savunma Sanayi Haberleri

Milli imkanlarla üretilen, TSK'nin vurucu gücü ve sınır güvenliğinin vazgeçilmezi Fırtına obüslerinin yeni nesillerinin seri üretimine başlanıyor. Türk Harb-İş Sendikası Genel Başkan Danışmanı Tarkan Zengin, Sakarya 1. Ana Bakım Fabrikasında üretilecek 'Yeni Nesil Fırtına II Obüsleri'nden üçünün...

www.yenisafak.com

Appearantly price of firtina I wasn't a secret too,
At least, for another reasons shouldn't it be disclosed how much profit BMC earns per unit? What is so secret about it?

And do you think that this is the price for the turkish army .
If i was in charge i will say it costs more for an example 8 millions dollars .
You should be clever when it comes to these things .

 

[Bogeyman]

Please enlighten me then, why Fırtına II is being bought a lot more expensive after BMC has acquired the factory?
How come BMC is allowed to make profits from a system which they neither designed or collaborated to the construction? Tank Palet can naturally make them.
Wasn't it supposed to get cheaper if BMC has a magic to lower the prices?

Other questions:
And what will be actual price of Altay after taken into account all incentives and land and other privileges BMC has received, and in fact we also know BMC will be paid as much as it costs + the profit for the first few part in low initial production rate.
Will it actually pass onto a serial production phase, there is still no factory,not to be launched anytime soon in the scale to actually reduce the price per units as claimed by half.

Does it actually make sense that a product can be made for half the price, given that its most expensive parts are electronics, cannon, armor and engine which has a fixed price and made by other companies, without actually those parts are being serially produced thus their prices are reduced?

If BMC can make it cheaper as told, then why everything is being told to be" secret" and not being transparent.

Btw i know answer of the most, just asking to make people aware of a fairytale that BMC will make it for the half price.

I'm still where I'm saying. Even not a single country in the world will pay 28 million euros for a tank. This is valid for BMC and Otokar. Moreover BMC will now produce only 250 tanks. However, İbrahim Sünnetçi said the unit price will be constantly fixed. So again a tender will not open again. And the BMC tank will produce even at this price even if the unit price is up. In short, when the new order arrives (which will come) they will still sell the tank at the present price. However, this was valid in the Otokar. The cost of 750 tanks with 28 million euros unit price makes 21 billion euros. And you are defending that. That's crazy!

 

[Nutuk]

Do you know the price of firtina 2 ?! .
Coming please , there are things we ordinary people should not know there are secrets .
We all know that they are working on utku engine . Real world is not minecraft . It takes time and money .
Lets say that all the bid go to other companies , can we still get domestic engines or engines from germany .
What do you want turkey to do i dont know how some peope think .

Why should the price be secret (unless a robbery is going on)

 

[Nutuk]

I'm still where I'm saying. Even not a single country in the world will pay 28 million euros for a tank. This is valid for BMC and Otokar. Moreover BMC will now produce only 250 tanks. However, İbrahim Sünnetçi said the unit price will be constantly fixed. So again a tender will not open again. And the BMC tank will produce even at this price even if the unit price is up. In short, when the new order arrives (which will come) they will still sell the tank at the present price. However, this was valid in the Otokar. The cost of 750 tanks with 28 million euros unit price makes 21 billion euros. And you are defending that. That's crazy!

Oh smart calculus without tender, just to defend a whole process without any transparancy. We have to trust the words of Ethem the saint.

 

[Bogeyman]

Oh smart calculus without tender, just to defend a whole process without any transparancy. We have to trust the words of Ethem the saint.

As you said, if Otokar were right, he would defend his rights. Why didn't they object to Ethem Sancak? Nobody paid them to keep quiet!

 

[Nutuk]

Why are defenders of this non transparant issue always bringing up Otokar, is there no FNSS and or ASFAT?

Is Ethem going to tell what kind of robbery he is doing?

SSB is the responsible institution who has to be transparant here, they are the institution who are the purchasing department. Not Ethem!!!

 

[Nutuk]

I wonder what these "defenders" of BMC has to answer that a factory of ASFAT is taken en given to BMC. And that factory is producing now the howitzer and tank.

What is the plus value of BMC here? They are investing 50mln into the factory while eating up billions, wow what a good deal!

 

[Bogeyman]

I wonder what these "defenders" of BMC has to answer that a factory of ASFAT is taken en given to BMC. And that factory is producing now the howitzer and tank.

What is the plus value of BMC here? They are investing 50mln into the factory while eating up billions, wow what a good deal!

There will be more investments in order to cultivate new orders after 250 tank production. And they will make this investment not in their own factory, but in ASFAT's factory. And if one day can take the Otokar tender again will use these facilities. In short, they did not transfer Arifiye to their deeds.

 

[Nutuk]

It was ASFAT producing the Firtina for $4.2mln. Now they do not even tell at what amount BMC is producing the Firtina, why? It has suddenly become a secret?

Same factory, same personnel is producing it under BMC. Can any of you with straight face tell the price is nearly the same or with some extra's of Firtina 2 say $5.2 million or something? Is Ethem keeping mum there?

You all know that a lot of things simply stink there, but your partizan stance does not allow you to recon even an ongoing robbery. They also rob from you!