Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

One of the leaders of Asaib Ahl Haq, Naji Abu Ali Kaabi was killed by unknown men in Maysan, Iraq.

The majority of Arabs in Palestine ain't Jews by origin and Christianity is religion not ethnicity.
Palestinians are Phoenicians, Caananites and Amoritians.
The Jews are kind of second hand Southern Iraqies.
When Islam came, definitely there were not a single Jew in Al Quds.
Hz Umar RA brought the Jews back to Al Quds.

Gary said:

Did I ever say it's a win or not? The only win I will accept is when we get Israel to cease to exist.

My post is a response to @Scott Summers idea that Israel could easily manipulate China the way they did with the West, people kinda underestimate the level of hate people in the Far East have for Israel. Certainly, the kind of trick that works with the U.S. and Germany (Holocaust guilt syndrome) would not work with Asian demographic giants like China and Indonesia, which don't care how many Jews are dead at the hands of Hitler to play by their rules.

From my observation as well (in PDF before it was closed), mainlanders viewed them negatively, and accused the israelis behind the mass demonization of China in Western media.

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Fighting Israel to the last Palestinian

Bozan said:

Fighting Israel to the last Palestinian

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to the last arab and muslim if necessary, if we went by the logic of concessions due to loss no one would've fought against colonialism, we shouldn't long for war but when its forced on us we shouldn't look away from it.
the palestinians conceded in oslo, what did that get them ? nothing, just more humiliation, more bloodshed and more settlements.

Chakib.Y said:

to the last arab and muslim if necessary, if we went by the logic of concessions due to loss no one would've fought against colonialism, we shouldn't long for war but when its forced on us we shouldn't look away from it.
the palestinians conceded in oslo, what did that get them ? nothing, just more humiliation, more bloodshed and more settlements.

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I agree, the Palestinians should fight to the bitter end if that is their will. Fighting for what you believe is noble, as long as you're willing to live with the repercussions. Such is the way of the world. When neighbours refuse to get along due to ethnic, religious, political, or practical differences, historically, often the only way to hash it out is through combat. Eventually, one side will capitulate and agree to terms that aren't fare to them, but ensure their survival.

That's the way of the world.

Let Israel and Palestine come to blows. At the war's end, the winner will set the conditions for the opposition's surrender and we can move on with the world.

Clear, withdraw, clear, withdraw

Relic said:

I agree, the Palestinians should fight to the bitter end if that is their will. Fighting for what you believe is noble, as long as you're willing to live with the repercussions. Such is the way of the world. When neighbours refuse to get along due to ethnic, religious, political, or practical differences, historically, often the only way to hash it out is through combat. Eventually, one side will capitulate and agree to terms that aren't fare to them, but ensure their survival.

That's the way of the world.

Let Israel and Palestine come to blows. At the war's end, the winner will set the conditions for the opposition's surrender and we can move on with the world.

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no one is stopping you nor the world from moving on, the palestinians aren't alone and morality isn't determined post hoc, in algeria we managed to liberate our selves at the cost of our blood, and the cost of our neighbours and the cost of egyptian blood (the tripartate assault, france participated due to their involvement with us), and palestine will be liberated in that fashion.

palestinians aren't lesser people compared to algerians, nor are the zionist settler colonialist superior to their french counterparts.

certain corrections for your take:

1- repercussions aren't that of the fight, the 'repercussions' are present whether Palestinians fight or submit, the outcome is the same, so if the ending is one, better give it meaning and make worth the blood. shifting any causative or moral burden on the palestinians with regards to their plight is plain wrong whichever perspective you might assume, they've managed to reach the threshold of the perfect victim.

2-the historicity of might make right doesn't necessarily negate the moral aspect, it only means that being right alone isn't enough to win your cause for you, and it means for your adversary that peace and preservation of the status quo can only persist through maintenance of might, might changes over time, its fleeting, morality doesn't, a palestinian state can thrive and persist regardless whether its strong and powerful since it relies on morality, the zionist entity will evaporate the moment they lose power, and that will happen sooner or later. one side leverages acceptance through coercion, another through conviction and morality.

Chakib.Y said:

no one is stopping you nor the world from moving on, the palestinians aren't alone and morality isn't determined post hoc, in algeria we managed to liberate our selves at the cost of our blood, and the cost of our neighbours and the cost of egyptian blood (the tripartate assault, france participated due to their involvement with us), and palestine will be liberated in that fashion.

palestinians aren't lesser people compared to algerians, nor are the zionist settler colonialist superior to their french counterparts.

certain corrections for your take:

1- repercussions aren't that of the fight, the 'repercussions' are present whether Palestinians fight or submit, the outcome is the same, so if the ending is one, better give it meaning and make worth the blood. shifting any causative or moral burden on the palestinians with regards to their plight is plain wrong whichever perspective you might assume, they've managed to reach the threshold of the perfect victim.

2-the historicity of might make right doesn't necessarily negate the moral aspect, it only means that being right alone isn't enough to win your cause for you, and it means for your adversary that peace and preservation of the status quo can only persist through maintenance of might, might changes over time, its fleeting, morality doesn't, a palestinian state can thrive and persist regardless whether its strong and powerful since it relies on morality, the zionist entity will evaporate the moment they lose power, and that will happen sooner or later. one side leverages acceptance through coercion, another through conviction and morality.

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There is morality on the national level. That's a fiction of your imagination, designed to paint one actor as the "good guy" in a conflict and the other as a "bad guy".

Here is the reality.

There are good, objectively moral people in Palestine and there are also awful, evil people, that want to do nothing but cause death and destruction.

There are good, objectively moral people in Israel and there are also awful, evil people, that want to do nothing but cause death and destruction.

That is the case in any country on Earth. No group of people is immune to that reality.

Might doesn't make right, but it can keep you alive. Surely, power shifts through the generations, as we've seen empires rise and fall, but one thing has always been true. If you believe in your cause, and are willing to fight for it, you will find a combatant willing to fight against you.

There is nothing objectively moral about Palestine or the Palestinians that live there. There is nothing objectively moral about Israel or the Israelis that live there... There are only conflicting values and beliefs, and people hardwired to defend those values and beliefs at all costs.

May the "better man" win. Israel has stepped up and smashed the armies of their opposition in previous conflicts, despite the best efforts of those who oppose them. If Palestine has that same moxy, that same ability to endure, suffer, fight and come away victorious, then good for them! They'll have earned their victory and their peace.

Relic said:

There is morality on the national level. That's a fiction of your imagination, designed to paint one actor as the "good guy" in a conflict and the other as a "bad guy".

Here is the reality.

There are good, objectively moral people in Palestine and there are also awful, evil people, that want to do nothing but cause death and destruction.

There are good, objectively moral people in Israel and there are also awful, evil people, that want to do nothing but cause death and destruction.

That is the case in any country on Earth. Nobody group of people is immune to that reality.

Might doesn't make right, but it can keep you alive. Surely, power shifts through the generations, as we've seen .mpires rise and fall, but one thing has always been true. If you believe in your cause, and are willing to fight for it, you will find a combatant willing to fight against you.

There is nothing objectively moral about Palestine or the Palestinians that live there. There is nothing objectively moral about Israel or the Israelis that live there... There are only conflicting values and beliefs, and people hardwired to defend those values and beliefs at all costs.

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1- objective morality that concerns entire groups does exist, reducing morality to the individual is first a cope to concede to relativism on the level of policy making, second it would lead to some pretty insane takes: colonialism isn't morally bad, holocaust and mass murder isn't morally bad. terrible premise to assume.

2- i'm not sure whether you're conflating morality of a case with the behavior of individuals or just not sure of the definitions, but i'll clarify something for you, a thief/embezzler getting his family butchered over a completely different case (or even related) doesn't suddenly lose his case against the perpetrator of the injustice against him nor does it make it a relativist issue, injustice remains injustice regardless of who commits it and against whom.

3- there is objectivity and its easily demonstratable, its hard to determined only for those who refuse to see it or ignorant of the philosophy and the history required to reach a conclusion.

May better man win? What? This is the street fight? Is that how you understand this?
Why don't you say something like that about Ukraine? You ain't so dialectic about that,are you?

Bozan said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1754520283552039262

Clear, withdraw, clear, withdraw

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Yes? Anything to add? Or just " elegantly " concise?

mehmed beg said:

May better man win? What? This is the street fight? Is that how you understand this?
Why don't you say something like that about Ukraine? You ain't so dialectic about that,are you?

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Yes I am. That's why I want as much Western military aid pumped into Ukraine as possible. I believe that our (Western) cause is superior to that of the Russian's. I believe that Ukraine's values are superior to that of Russia's and while not aligned perfectly with ours, they're more reflective of the world we want to live in. Therefore, I want a Ukrainian victory, or at the very least, Russia to be denied any significant victory.

Simultaneously, I want the Arab / Muslim world to pump weapons into Palestine to the best of their ability (if that's their wish) and I want the West to pump weapons into Israel to the best of their ability, and we can see who the "better man" is, who believes in their cause more, and is more willing to support their friends.

If Palestine, with support from the Arabs and Muslims around them are able to overcome Israel supported by its Western partners, then fare play to Palestine and a tip of the cap to the likes of Iran and company for outdoing us... We (and Israel) will be forced to take our loss like a man and move the hell on.

Bozan said:

Fighting Israel to the last Palestinian

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I'm always a proponent of expanding this war into the entire middle east so that the Arab manpower could be used their full extent

Some people just doesn't seem to realized or understand the weight and the potential repercussion on this war....
Carved this into your psyche ... The palestinian might be martyred to extinction by the lack of attempts by their brotherly adherent ... In turn ...that the start of Israelis extinction as an entity movement in earnest ....
No quarter given after such point were reached ..
And i dreaded for that outcome ..

Relic said:

Yes I am. That's why I want as much Western military aid pumped into Ukraine as possible. I believe that our (Western) cause is superior to that of the Russian's. I believe that Ukraine's values are superior to that of Russia's and while not aligned perfectly with ours, they're more reflective of the world we want to live in. Therefore, I want a Ukrainian victory, or at the very least, Russia to be denied any significant victory.

Simultaneously, I want the Arab / Muslim world to pump weapons into Palestine to the best of their ability (if that's their wish) and I want the West to pump weapons into Israel to the best of their ability, and we can see who the "better man" is, who believes in their cause more, and is more willing to support their friends.

If Palestine, with support from the Arabs and Muslims around them are able to overcome Israel supported by its Western partners, then fare play to Palestine and a tip of the cap to the likes of Iran and company for outdoing us... We (and Israel) will be forced to take our loss like a man and move the hell on.

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How many Billions of $ Arab or Muslim countries spend on defence annually? How much is the annual income of these countries? How many military age men are there in the "Muslim World"? What did the "Muslim World" or the "Ummah" did till now?

If the "Muslim World" unites and 50% of the people in these countries spit in the same time towards Israel, this country will cease to exist. There are Sheikhs, State representatives and other people that have the chance and are able to appeal to the public, which are cursing Israel on live TV day and night. Some of them call Israel a terrorist State, other are taking it one step further by threatening of "deleting Israel from the face of the earth". From the day I was born I hear only this, but so many years later the way I see it is that Israel is nowhere near being "deleted". How come?

It is one thing to want it, it is another to be able to do it and it is totally different to ACTUALLY DO IT.

I am calling all the keyboard warriors and the "Muslim World" to go and fight, but you know what? This will never happen. Why? Because there is no actual determination for this to happen. The "Muslim World" or the "Ummah" is a scam. There are many people that claim to be a Muslim. What are these people doing infront of the display and keyboard? Isn't it a noble duty to enter Jihad? Don't they want a free Palestine? Don't they know that there is a special place in Jannah for the martyrs?

We all know the answers of these hard questions. There is no "Muslim World" or "Ummah". There is no brotherhood, Jihad, sincere feelings or any kind of determination for solution by the "Muslim World" as we call it. If there was such a determination my Muslim brothers here including me would have already reached Gaza fighting against Israel and if there was real determination there is no power on this world that can stop this.

Palestine is firstly hostage of Israel and then it is a hostage to the political games of the "Muslim World".

Now some will come and blame the Presidents, the Kings, the Governors, Santa etc. Who are these people? What is a man? 80 kilos of flesh and sh!t. How much are they? 100,500,2000,10.000? Muslim numbers are 1.8 Billion people.

Instead of shedding crocodile tears, masturbating to unrealistic scenarios from their golden palaces or the comfort of their home, Muslim's feet should touch the soil of mother Earth again and start working on a real solution.

This world has a clear system from which we can not escape. There are certain realities that we can not bypass. For me there are five magic words:

Education, Economy, Diplomacy, Military, Determination.

These are the same things that "the evil Jews", "the evil Westerners", "the Rothschilds", "the Illuminati" or whatever sh!t we come with posses. Muslims should work on these five magic "Kabala" ultra-Illuminati, Reptilian words.

No, the dollar will not collapse tomorrow, the West will not collapse next week, no asteroid will fall on Paris if you make a wish from your septic hole in Bamako covered by banana leaves (no offense). Mehdi is not coming in the foreseeable future, Hamas alone can't make Israel cease to exist, Al-Qaeda can't beat the US and I don't even want to comment on Iran, Turkiye, Indonesia the Saudis, Afghanistan, Somalia or whatever.

Enough with the excuses, the victimizing and hypocrisy. If there is someone guilty it is the "Muslim World". One must not wait for the enemy to come with roses and nice words. The enemy is enemy and it will do its thing. 2/3 of the Quran is a history lesson. Allah warned Muslims regarding all of this happening. If Muslims didn't take precautions there is nobody to blame here. Allah said it himself in the Noble Quran for whoever like to think over it, but instead of accepting the truth and work towards improvement, we the modern Muslims prefer to whine, masturbate and wait for a Messiah. I am wondering what great Muslim leaders would think of us if they see our situation.

With this long text I wanted to point out an already known thing about which many Muslims around the world including people in our forum prefer to close their eyes. There is no Israel, The West against the Muslim World. There is Israel, The West against the landlocked Palestinians in a 365 km2 open prison. It is completely different thing that somebody decided to use the suffering of the Palestinian people and legitimize his actions aimed at pursuing a certain political agenda.

Wow I'm going to have a field day...but its 9 AM here. lmao


wait

Kartal1 said:

How many Billions of $ Arab or Muslim countries spend on defence annually? How much is the annual income of these countries? How many military age men are there in the "Muslim World"? What did the "Muslim World" or the "Ummah" did till now?

If the "Muslim World" unites and 50% of the people in these countries spit in the same time towards Israel, this country will cease to exist. There are Sheikhs, State representatives and other people that have the chance and are able to appeal to the public, which are cursing Israel on live TV day and night. Some of them call Israel a terrorist State, other are taking it one step further by threatening of "deleting Israel from the face of the earth". From the day I was born I hear only this, but so many years later the way I see it is that Israel is nowhere near being "deleted". How come?

It is one thing to want it, it is another to be able to do it and it is totally different to ACTUALLY DO IT.

I am calling all the keyboard warriors and the "Muslim World" to go and fight, but you know what? This will never happen. Why? Because there is no actual determination for this to happen. The "Muslim World" or the "Ummah" is a scam. There are many people that claim to be a Muslim. What are these people doing infront of the display and keyboard? Isn't it a noble duty to enter Jihad? Don't they want a free Palestine? Don't they know that there is a special place in Jannah for the martyrs?

We all know the answers of these hard questions. There is no "Muslim World" or "Ummah". There is no brotherhood, Jihad, sincere feelings or any kind of determination for solution by the "Muslim World" as we call it. If there was such a determination my Muslim brothers here including me would have already reached Gaza fighting against Israel and if there was real determination there is no power on this world that can stop this.

Palestine is firstly hostage of Israel and then it is a hostage to the political games of the "Muslim World".

Now some will come and blame the Presidents, the Kings, the Governors, Santa etc. Who are these people? What is a man? 80 kilos of flesh and sh!t. How much are they? 100,500,2000,10.000? Muslim numbers are 1.8 Billion people.

Instead of shedding crocodile tears, masturbating to unrealistic scenarios from their golden palaces or the comfort of their home, Muslim's feet should touch the soil of mother Earth again and start working on a real solution.

This world has a clear system from which we can not escape. There are certain realities that we can not bypass. For me there are five magic words:

Education, Economy, Diplomacy, Military, Determination.

These are the same things that "the evil Jews", "the evil Westerners", "the Rothschilds", "the Illuminati" or whatever sh!t we come with posses. Muslims should work on these five magic "Kabala" ultra-Illuminati, Reptilian words.

No, the dollar will not collapse tomorrow, the West will not collapse next week, no asteroid will fall on Paris if you make a wish from your septic hole in Bamako covered by banana leaves (no offense). Mehdi is not coming in the foreseeable future, Hamas alone can't make Israel cease to exist, Al-Qaeda can't beat the US and I don't even want to comment on Iran, Turkiye, Indonesia the Saudis, Afghanistan, Somalia or whatever.

Enough with the excuses, the victimizing and hypocrisy. If there is someone guilty it is the "Muslim World". One must not wait for the enemy to come with roses and nice words. The enemy is enemy and it will do its thing. 2/3 of the Quran is a history lesson. Allah warned Muslims regarding all of this happening. If Muslims didn't take precautions there is nobody to blame here. Allah said it himself in the Noble Quran for whoever like to think over it, but instead of accepting the truth and work towards improvement, we the modern Muslims prefer to whine, masturbate and wait for a Messiah. I am wondering what great Muslim leaders would think of us if we saw our situation.

With this long text I wanted to point out an already known thing about which many Muslims around the world including people in our forum prefer to close their eyes. There is no Israel, The West against the Muslim World. There is Israel, The West against the landlocked Palestinians in a 365 km2 open prison. It is completely different thing that somebody decided to use the suffering of the Palestinian people and legitimize his actions aimed at pursuing a certain political agenda.

Click to expand...

If the Muslim world rallies together in the targeted destruction of Israel and is able to overcome Israel's foreign support, then as I said, fare play to that Muslim coalition.

As long as "you're" willing to pay the price to eradicate Israel. If that means Israel launches nuclear weapons at Tehran, Cairo, Beirut, Demascus, etc and destroys ancient cities, vaporizing millions of people along the way, then so be it. The neccessary blood will have been spilled to accomplish the task. Tip of my cap to the commitment of the Muslim world!

I've said the same thing to Gary. If the Muslim world wants to build a massive military armata and sail across the ocean to invade Canada and the United States in an attempt to defeat our Western values, then I welcome the attempt. We'll be waiting to fight until the last person and I look forward to the attempt (and to see how "you" fare on the offensive, in horrendous winters). All is fare in love and war.