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Its not about the project itself,take another look from a different angle.
Ask the question,why would the UK not join the US project instead?
Ask the question,why would the UK not join the US project instead?
Turkic
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The UK ? May or may not depends on their win/loss calculations
Italy ? Close ties for decades
Japan ? Strategic ally
We have no direct conflict of interest with these 3 nations and I think neither Japan nor the UK would keep us away or listen to the Greek lobby after they faced a new world order created by Trump. Trump may go but the order may continue.
For those who'll bring Cyprus problem with the UK to me, there's nothing for the UK to see this as a problem at all. No one except us recognizes TRNC and we're not going to attack Southern Cyprus. They know they're not going to take us from the northern side. So it's not that big deal as the situation keeps stable.
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Can it be that Kaan will be the multi-purpose jet and the GCAP will be the next air-superiority fighter of TurAF ? I mean if TurAF is willing to become much bigger and considering GCAP ?
Another idea with a much lower possibility; the UK and Japan are at a higher level of allience with the US than Italy is. Would Italy want to have Kaan's instead of more F-35's until GCAP is ready by any chance ? They won't be guarranteed for full control on their F-35's ever, unlike Japan. And the UK wouldn't need such guarrantees. Italy is not always at the same perspective as the US and this is a harsh problem for them now. This idea was focusing on Italy but it is also possible (?) for the UK and Japan too if we give them some guarrantees and create closer "deep" ties.
All depends on their thoughts if everything will go back to what it was or will not after Trump goes. I wouldn't risk it (as Italy) because it seems like Trump ain't going anywhere till 2032. I wonder your thoughts on these.
YeşilVatan
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To be frank, I don't think a dedicated killswitch exists for F-35s. Damn planes are so over-engineered and filled with future tech, 3 months of embargoes would ground %90 of the fleet.
But this debate about having true control over a 5th gen aircraft is an interesting conundrum. I think the solution would be to make "core" codes written jointly with but advanced coding seperate. Things that can compromise the aircraft are either; A) known to other parties in its entirety or B) completely secret to each consortium member. Cyber security suite can be seperate for example. Sure, this approach may require more work and resources, but it would end the killswitch debate.
If there is a sliver of possibility of partnering with Europeans on KAAN, this would be the best way to go at it. This doesn't eliminate the classic german moves like embargoing parts, but it would ameliorate the distrust a lot. And let's be honets to ourselves, we have every reason not to trust Europeans.
But this debate about having true control over a 5th gen aircraft is an interesting conundrum. I think the solution would be to make "core" codes written jointly with but advanced coding seperate. Things that can compromise the aircraft are either; A) known to other parties in its entirety or B) completely secret to each consortium member. Cyber security suite can be seperate for example. Sure, this approach may require more work and resources, but it would end the killswitch debate.
If there is a sliver of possibility of partnering with Europeans on KAAN, this would be the best way to go at it. This doesn't eliminate the classic german moves like embargoing parts, but it would ameliorate the distrust a lot. And let's be honets to ourselves, we have every reason not to trust Europeans.
I think the doubt alone is enough
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And I think aside from being kicked out of F35 program, the driving force behind the ”domestic and national” goal was get rid of that doubt constantly dangling above our heads at first place.
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Alright Europe. We gave you our best and now it’s your turn.
Show us what you got.
“Baykar UAVs will be equipped with the most advanced Electronic Warfare Systems!
Leonardo will integrate the Britestorm jammer, Gabbiano radar and Skyward Infrared search and tracking system as well as data links and flight control computer systems into BAYKAR UAVs.
BriteStorm: Generating stealth aircraft signals or emitting electronic noise
Gabbiano: Superior surveillance radar
SkyWard: Infrared Detection and Tracking System (IRST)
The revenue from the joint venture will total €600 million by 2029.”
Show us what you got.
“Baykar UAVs will be equipped with the most advanced Electronic Warfare Systems!
Leonardo will integrate the Britestorm jammer, Gabbiano radar and Skyward Infrared search and tracking system as well as data links and flight control computer systems into BAYKAR UAVs. BriteStorm: Generating stealth aircraft signals or emitting electronic noise Gabbiano: Superior surveillance radar SkyWard: Infrared Detection and Tracking System (IRST)The revenue from the joint venture will total €600 million by 2029.”
Huelague
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Which system Leonardo can add, which aselsan cant produce?Alright Europe. We gave you our best and now it’s your turn.
Show us what you got.
“Baykar UAVs will be equipped with the most advanced Electronic Warfare Systems!
The revenue from the joint venture will total €600 million by 2029.”
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Well, a probable list of system were added at the post.
These are options for European customers to choose from to be custom tailored for their needs, size of their check book.
Baykar has been selling its products to more than thirty nations globally. Some customers used Turkish systems while some others preferred different lines of other manufacturers.
The only constant that we are still struggling to overcome is the fact that Turkish HW manufacturers lagging behind Baykar. They simply can’t keep with their pace! Bayraktar Bros are very fast at every level and selling their stuff like hot cakes.
Limited production capacities all over the defense industry is one of our major obstacles to achieve higher in short and midterm future, if not the only one. This restriction seems to be holding us back on every field. So, maybe we may expect even more joint ventures in the future.
Hannibal
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Baykar should be careful with technology transfer, accessing EU market doesn’t mean shit if we breed future competitors. Italy could transfer the tech through eurodrone program and you have 10 future competitors.
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In a way I support this, but on the other hand people were criticizing Otokar for the same thing.
TAI and Aselsan must be more careful in the future dealing with Baykar if they intend to damage the local industry.
TAI and Aselsan must be more careful in the future dealing with Baykar if they intend to damage the local industry.
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Leonardo has published its 2025-2029 Industrial Plan. Accordingly:
*The partnership will benefit from Baykar's advanced unmanned platforms (Mini, Kalkan, Bayraktar TB2, Bayraktar TB3, AKINCI, KIZILELMA) that have proven their operational effectiveness in international markets, as well as Leonardo's expertise in mission systems, payload design and aviation certification in Europe.
*Leonardo will be able to integrate a large number of systems, including the Gabbiano radar, Britestorm jammer, Skyward IRST system, and Leoss E/O sensor.
*Production is targeted to begin in Turkey and Italy in 2026.
*An additional EUR 1.1 billion in orders and EUR 600 million in revenue are expected for Leonardo during the 2025-2029 period through the partnership.
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Murad AESA Radar Performance Test Flight
Radko
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Honestly underwhelming set of systems
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I think it's very possible that we'll see an order of Akıncı and TB3 for Italy soon with some specific Leonardo equipment coupled with more regular subsystems from Turkish companies.
"Italianizing" Baykar products or creating new solutions for KE and Akıncı will surely come much later.
MonteCarlo
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Honestly as long as Europeans buys it that might even be better. It can be a "export version" while we continue to use domestic versions
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On what?
Agreed, it probably lowers the amount of USD that enters the system, but allows us to keep our radar, ECM, EW equipment to ourselves, which we should NOT share.
MonteCarlo
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Sorry for that first sentence, I must have written over a previous unsent message.
AB-Assisted Takeoff Aerodynamics System Identification Test
