TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

IC3M@N FX · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
Source is not reliable, but what he wrote is %100 correct.

How is possible?
TAI KAAN and Anka 3 has the same RCS?
With the Anka 3, this is still possible, as it features a pure flying-wing design; and thanks to its tailless design, the radar-absorbing materials and coatings can realistically achieve this value. But TAI KAAN is not Tailless and It even has a centre strut cockpit canopy and with vertical stabilisers.

The US is miles ahead of every other nation in the world when it comes to radar-absorbing materials, coatings and paints.
If China can’t even manage to develop better radar-absorbing materials, despite having a budget ten times as large as ours … Sorry, but that’s propaganda or misinformation. I don't believe it.

We’re starting out by designing Aeroplanes and developing Subsystems for them, and right from the off we’re better than everyone else but with no historical experience in this field of Radarabsorbing & Co – as if all the other nations were monkeys and our people (Scientists and engineers) from Atlantis...we can achieve this in 5-10 Years sry but I must laugh.

Sanchez · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
I'm talking about RAM being better than F-35. That is true.

RAM paint is a product. One being better at hiding true RCS doesn't automatically make it better than the other. Americans learned it the hard way in the last 40 years. Applying and maintaining the RAM coating is just as important to keep readiness high. That's why F-35 can be deployed to austere environs and even carrier decks and F-22 can't and why the B-2 fleet require nearly a billion dollars in maintenance costs every year. For this exact reason B-2 will remain the most stealthy plane ever built well after it's retired. B-21 however will be much more cheaper to maintain.

It's actually exactly why Greece's late block F-16s look like they came out of a war zone; thanks to their RAM paint which they can't apply themselves or have the budget to send them over to US to be reapplied.

Zafer · Jul 14, 2026

RCS is about radar detection but there is also infrared signature detection that needs to be considered, call it sensor detection. In this respect I will fondly name the F35 as the Eclipse as it hides a sun behind its tail.

TheInsider · Jul 14, 2026

We have some very advanced shit on our hands when it comes to RAM. Early studies probably go back 2 decades. There are clues for deduction for the careful eyes in academia, and Ergun Kırlıkovalı mentioned contributing to 4 next-generation RAM materials for the Kaan

Angry Turk !!! · Jul 14, 2026

Does 2 F110 engines on lower output have a less infrared signature than a F35 engine on higher output?

TheInsider · Jul 14, 2026

Angry Turk !!! said:
Does 2 F110 engines on lower output have a less infrared signature than a F35 engine on higher output?

The problem with F135 is that it has a very high exhaust temperature; the hotter the source, the longer the detection range.

Angry Turk !!! · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
The problem with F135 is that it has a very high exhaust temperature; the hotter the source, the longer the detection range.

I can imagine that 2x F35K engines will have an even lower signature than 2x F110 engines. So it's not a given that a bigger fighter jet has automatically a bigger signature. Otherwise how can people explain that the B2 has a lower signature than the F35.

What I want to say is, is that the KAAN possibly can have a lower signature than the F35.

TheInsider · Jul 14, 2026

Angry Turk !!! said:
I can imagine that 2x F35K engines will have an even lower signature than 2x F110 engines. So it's not a given that a bigger fighter jet has automatically a bigger signature. Otherwise how can people explain that the B2 has a lower signature than the F35.

What I want to say is, is that the KAAN possibly can have a lower signature than the F35.

Kaan will have lower IR signature than F-35 because F-35k exhaust temperature will be lower than F135. F110 EGT maxes a little higher than 900 degree celcius, F-135 EGT maxes around 1150 degree celcius at max dry thrust. If afterburner is utilized, it is an IR signature fiesta for both, but still, F110 EGT is lower when using afterburner. IMHO TF35k EGT will be comparable to F110 maybe somewhat higher. F-135 can suppress its IR signature for a short time window by utilizing a special cooling system.

BTW TF35k will have special RAM CMC for the nozzle/tailpipe similar to F-135 one of the reasons why TF35k is called a next-generation engine. F110 doesn't have such a capability.

Angry Turk !!! · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
Kaan will have lower IR signature than F-35 because F-35k exhaust temperature will be lower than F135. F110 EGT maxes a little higher than 900 degree santigrad, F-135 EGT maxes around 1150 degree santigrad at max dry thrust. If afterburner is utilized, it is an IR signature fiesta for both, but still, F110 EGT is lower when using afterburner. IMHO TF35k EGT will be comparable to F110 maybe somewhat higher. F-135 can suppress its IR signature for a short time window by utilizing a special cooling system.

BTW TF35k will have special RAM CMC for the nozzle/tailpipe similar to F-135 one of the reasons why TF35k is called a next-generation engine. F110 doesn't have such a capability.

My thought process regarding the TF-35K IR signature being lower than the F110 engine was because the F35K has higher thrust, which means it can throttle the power output to reach the same speed of 2x F110 engines.

Obviously I could be totally wrong, it's just me guessing and trying to understand.

Yasar_TR · Jul 14, 2026

Angry Turk !!! said:
Does 2 F110 engines on lower output have a less infrared signature than a F35 engine on higher output?

According to unconfirmed sources :

F110
non afterburner/dry exhaust temperature : 600-700 degrees C
Afterburner exhaust temperature : 1700-2000 degrees C

F135
non afterburner/dry exhaust temperature : 600-650 degrees C
Afterburner exhaust temperature : 1500-1700 degrees C

So in reality there isn’t much between them.

It depends on how well the aircraft disguises IR picture of engines is what matters.

Yasar_TR · Jul 14, 2026

Angry Turk !!! said:
Does 2 F110 engines on lower output have a less infrared signature than a F35 engine on higher output?

According to unconfirmed sources :

F110
non afterburner/dry exhaust temperature : 600-700 degrees C
Afterburner exhaust temperature : 1700-2000 degrees C

F135
non afterburner/dry exhaust temperature : 600-650 degrees C
Afterburner exhaust temperature : 1500-1700 degrees C

So in reality there isn’t much between them.

It depends on how well the aircraft disguises IR picture of engines is what matters.

In essence these values vary a great deal depending on RPM of engines and the length of time afterburners are applied

An aircraft’s skin temperature goes up drastically with its speed and altitude. At Higher altitudes air is thin the friction is less. Hence less heat develops .
But at higher altitudes planes can go faster. This increases friction and skin temperature climbs.

At mach2 and high altitude the skin temperature can be between 120 to 180 degrees C

I always remember the Russian IR picture of an f22 from 150km away.

TheInsider · Jul 14, 2026

I found the exact values for F110 it is 482 degree celcius 10 feet away from the nozzle and 935 degree celcius when measured from the exhaust thermocouple(inside the engine just before the afterburner), both at military power. Admittedly the first figure is more useful considering the IR signature.

Yasar_TR · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
I found the exact values for F110 it is 482 degree celcius 10 feet away from the nozzle and 935 degree celcius when measured from the exhaust thermocouple(inside the engine just before the afterburner), both at military power. Admittedly second figure is more useful considering the IR signature.

View attachment 81555

But interesting that nearly 300 metres away, the temperature is still 40 degrees C. At 15 metres from nozzle it is nearly 150 degrees C. That is a lot of IR signature.
Also this has a lot to do with staff safety around those engines. So it must be taken stationary on tarmac. I wonder what values it should give at high altitude.
Shame a similar test is not available for f135 to compare.

TheInsider · Jul 14, 2026

Yasar_TR said:
But interesting that nearly 300 metres away, the temperature is still 40 degrees C. At 15 metres from nozzle it is nearly 150 degrees C. That is a lot of IR signature.
Also this has a lot to do with staff safety around those engines. So it must be taken stationary on tarmac. I wonder what values it should give at high altitude.
Shame a similar test is not available for f135 to compare.

We can roughly estimate F-135 values from this.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214509522004028

In the Introduction, it was explained that runways are exposed to very high temperatures during the vertical take-off and landing of F-35B combat aircraft. During a take-off or landing, heat is vertically applied to runways through a single direction and can reach up to 930 °C temperatures with a heating rate of 85 °C s−1.

The F-35B heating problems

In the last few days, I've often written about the F-35B. I have explained that the STOVL concept could not be abandoned and that, hopefully, USMC,

theaviationist.com

The newly released document, hosted on a government building-design resource
site, outlines what base-construction engineers need to do to ensure that
the F-35B’s exhaust does not turn the surface it lands on into an
area-denial weapon. And it’s not trivial. Vertical-landing “pads will be
exposed to 1700 deg. F and high velocity (Mach 1) exhaust,” the report says.
The exhaust will melt asphalt and “is likely to spall the surface of
standard airfield concrete pavements on the first VL.

And lastly, IR recording at near idle thrust. Body of F-35 is dark as expected because it is painted with IR signature supressing paint. On the other hand nozzle is glowing and exhaust plume is a lot more visible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/uz38e0

Huelague · Jul 14, 2026

TheInsider said:
We have some very advanced shit on our hands when it comes to RAM. Early studies probably go back 2 decades. There are clues for deduction for the careful eyes in academia, and Ergun Kırlıkovalı mentioned contributing to 4 next-generation RAM materials for the Kaan

I remember the discussion, especially in the field of Nano technology.

UkroTurk · Jul 14, 2026

Zafer said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2066799763245179392

The radar-absorbent material (RAM) coating designed to provide stealth capabilities for the KAAN has been manufactured in Ankara, has passed over 30 tests, and is ready for use.

It can be said that the KAAN's stealth level will surpass that of the F-35, thanks to innovations in RAM technology.

The radar-signal-absorbing coating used on the KAAN and ANKA-3 is superior to the coating used on American F-35 aircraft.

The next-generation coating developed for the KAAN and ANKA-3 was designed with more durable and modern components to overcome the chronic maintenance issues associated with the F-35.

The KAAN’s Radar Cross Section (RCS) value is 0.001 m²—roughly the size of a golf ball.

The KAAN incorporates millions of lines of code written by ASELSAN and HAVELSAN.

AFAIK Rafale and EF have 1m2 RCS. ( No idea frontal or from ground)

Here claims 0.1 M2 , APG 68 could detect( most probably frontal)

Anyways, under any surcamstances the seeker of missiles could not engage to KE from long distances. If SM-3 engaged to those flighters, the thermal signature would be vital from long distances.

Zafer · Jul 14, 2026

How many times the radar visibility of Kaan

4000	SU-35
1200	F16
500	Rafale
250	EF
100	SU-57
70	Kızılelma
50	H-20
1	F35
1	Kaan
1	Anka3
0.1	F22

boredaf · Jul 30, 2026

Just fell on my knees in Tesco, finally internal weapons bay tests! I can't wait to see a2a missile testing, or UAV-230.

Agha Sher · Jul 30, 2026

Strong AI said:
TEBER-82 & TOLUN-P Munition Firing Test from the Internal Weapons Bay

View attachment 81706
View attachment 81707

Finally! Tolun-P looks like a miss though

MonteCarlo · Jul 30, 2026

Agha Sher said:
Finally! Tolun-P looks like a miss though

Yeah, but I don't think it is that important right now. Since Tolun glides to a lot further it probably got affected more by IWB turbulence. Most likely it would be solved with software tweaks

TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Contributor

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Contributor

Experienced member

Contributor

Experienced member

Contributor

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Committed member

Follow us on social media

About us

Newest members