• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Sensors and Detector Programs

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,277
Reactions
263 22,342
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Athen - Cesme 250km distance.

That is 211km from Cesme

1780962864614.jpeg
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
ALP-400G will have a more modern AESA antenna similar to Chinese JY-26 radar. The conceptual design phase is probably completed, and it is moving to the detailed design phase, which is why we are seeing a different design. ETA is 2029 for ALP-400G.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
So I guess alp 400 together with yirad will be the last elements to enter service as alp 500 is already in service/production
Yes, they are probably the final ground-based sensors together with the passive radar system and STR-800G orbital tracking radar. There will be satellite-based early warning and SAR sensors. I guess we can also count UAV and airplane-based early warning radars, they are all interlinked.
 

Samba

Committed member
Messages
254
Reactions
4 422
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yes, they are probably the final ground-based sensors together with the passive radar system and STR-800G orbital tracking radar. There will be satellite-based early warning and SAR sensors. I guess we can also count UAV and airplane-based early warning radars, they are all interlinked.
What is the longest distance these radars can detect an f35 and send data to AD or fighters? Any reasonable guesses?
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Orbital tracking radar is not useful for the detection of F-35. Its purpose is to detect and track items orbiting Earth.
Passive radar can detect F-35 from several hundred kilometers in favorable conditions. But it is an inherently different sensor compared to active radars and has caveats.

YIRAD is for the detection of ballistic missiles and hypersonic targets at high altitudes. It is not a system tailored towards F-35.
ALP-400G VHF radar can detect F-35 from several hundred kilometers, but it can't provide a precise firing solution.
 

Oublious

Experienced member
The Netherlands Correspondent
Messages
2,780
Reactions
15 6,093
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey

Gökyüzünde oyun değiştiren teknoloji: #ASELSAN MURAD AESA Burun Radarı. 🌐 Game-changing technology in the sky: ASELSAN MURAD AESA Nose Radar.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Murad-600A will have 4x max output power and 4x aperture area compared to Murad-100A. If you do the math (radar equation) in theory this changes will increase the maximum range by 2.828x, so we can safely assume Murad-600A to have at least 2.5x range compared to Murad-100A.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
5,138
Reactions
104 10,047
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
Murad-600A will have 4x max output power and 4x aperture area compared to Murad-100A. If you do the math (radar equation) in theory this changes will increase the maximum range by 2.828x, so we can safely assume Murad-600A to have at least 2.5x range compared to Murad-100A.

4000 TRM?
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
4000 TRM?
2304 TRM for the nose(144 subarray, 16x TRM per subarray) compared to 1152 TRM for Murad-100A(72 subarray 16x TRM per subarray) 2x peak power per TRM compared to Murad-100A (30W vs 60W) for a total of 4x max power output. Subarray tiles will be bigger.

Cheek and aft radars rumorud to have 576 TRM/ 36 subarray. 3x576+2304=4032 TRM modules

Dual-band (S/X) radar is planned for block 30
 
Last edited:

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
5,138
Reactions
104 10,047
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
2304 TRM for the nose(144 subarray, 16x TRM per subarray) compared to 1152 TRM for Murad-100A(72 subarray 16x TRM per subarray) 2x peak power per TRM compared to Murad-100A (30W vs 60W) for a total of 4x max power output. Subarray tiles will be bigger.

Cheek and aft radars rumorud to have 576 TRM/ 36 subarray. 3x576+2304=4032 TRM modules

Dual-band (S/X) radar is planned for block 30

Thanks, That make sense. But could you tell how did you calculate 2.8x maximum range increase? I am seem to be getting 2x only (For the nose array comparison) using the formula AESA radar calculator developer gave.

((2304/1152)^3*(60/30))^(1/4)

=2.
 
Last edited:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Thanks, That make sense. But could you tell how did you calculate 2.8x maximum range increase? I am seem to be getting 2x only (For the nose array comparison) using the formula AESA radar calculator developer gave.

((2304/1152)^3*(60/30))^(1/4)

=2.
Both aperture area and output power affect the radar range.

The number of TR modules alone has no direct effect. The number of TR modules is only important if it affects the total output power or aperture size.

radar.jpg


radar2.jpg


Rmax: Maximum detection range (meters)
Pt: Radar transmitter power (watts) (1x for radar 1, 4x for radar 2 1152X30 vs 2304X60)
G: Radar antenna gain (dimensionless)
λ: Radar signal wavelength (meters, same for both radars so not important when comparing)
σ: Radar cross-section / RCS of the target (square meters, same for both radars not important when comparing)
Pmin:Minimum detectable signal / receiver sensitivity (watts, I assume the same for both radars unless Murad-600A is more sensitive)
Ae: Aperture area (1x for radar 1, 4x for radar 2)

We rearrange formula 1 and write 1 in place of λ, σ. Since Pmin is also the same for both radars, the denominator can be removed.
Rmax ∝ (Pt.G^2)^1/4

G is directly proportional to Ae because λ is same for both radars.

Rmax ∝ (Pt.Ae^2)^1/4


Increase Pt to 4Pt and Ae to 4Ae (4Pt.4Ae^2)^1/4
(4Pt.16Ae)^1/4= (64)^1/4= 2√2= 2.828

When everything else is the same a radar that has 4x output power and 4x aperture area has 2.828 more range compared to the baseline radar. Of course this doesn't take into account real life lossess that might come with a bigger aperture size and more power pushed down a module.

If we only increase power 4x detection range only increse by 4^1/4= 1.41 times
If we only increase aperture area 4x detection range increase by (4^2)^1/4= 4^1/2= 2 times.
 
Last edited:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
This is important because we knew that Aselsan has been using its homegrown detectors for sometime but now they are actively marketing those detectors, which means Aselsan ramped up production of those products, and there are better versions in the pipeline.

It is also important that Aselsan has mastered the production of both MCT and T2SL detectors and offers them for sale.
 
Top Bottom