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Nilgiri

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Nothing beats watching some Turkmenistan state television on a Sunday morning:


Out of interest, how much turkmen can you as turkish-speaker understand?
 

Nilgiri

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Not much as I don't know Turkish ;)

Oh OK heh....well I guess question put to the turkish speakers in this forum.

I ran similar question with Azeri language, and apprently its very similar and easy to pick up for Turks...and vice versa etc
 

CAN_TR

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Out of interest, how much turkmen can you as turkish-speaker understand?
I understand Azerbaijani for example some words are unfamiliar but i can rhyme together what they mean, Turkmen is a harder their pronounciation is different, a Turkish speaker can pick up quite few words but when they start talking it becomes harder in my opinion but you should ask @asena_great he is from Turkmenistan.
 

Nilgiri

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I understand Azerbaijani for example some words are unfamiliar but i can rhyme together what they mean, Turkmen is a harder their pronounciation is different, a Turkish speaker can pick up quite few words but when they start talking it becomes harder in my opinion but you should ask @asena_great he is from Turkmenistan.

Yeah it looks indeed pronounciation is what will really separate I guess...because written wise it look quite similar, I guess coz both are from Oghuz branch:


(Türkmeniň is a great example of the Turkmen language. It's the most famous poem among the Turkmen people, composed by Magtymguly. The poem depicts the beauty of the Turkmen land, praises valiancy and spirit of the Turkmen people, and calls for the unity of all Turkmens.

The following is Magtymguly's Türkmeniň poem with the text transliterated into Turkmen (Latin) letters, whereas the original language is preserved. Second column is the poem's Turkish translation, while the third one is the English translation.)
 

mulj

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Guys, can someone help me to find news about ceramic steel coating technology, for artillery guns.
Somone posted it but i can not find it?
 

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asena_great

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Out of interest, how much turkmen can you as turkish-speaker understand?
well the first and most obvius example is the fact that we use th for z (that for example) and th for s (thus for example ) while anatolians dont have these voices (and some others) for example the word *you* is sen in turkish and then (s) in turkmen the big difference is in the alien words for example turkmen are more influence with Persian and Russian words and pronounciation of that words other then that most grammar and and main words are same but 1 small grammatical difference that are unique to us are the suffix and prefix in turkish turks only have suffix they add only to the end of the word to make new words however we have some few prefix for example

turkish : ver = give , gonder = send

turkmen : ver = give , Ever = send (the E is a perfix added to the word ver (give ) which in return crate new word send )

or

turkish : git= go , götürdim= take / carry

ex : ben furkanı hastaneye götürdum (i took furkan to hospital )

turkmen : git = go , akid = take (götürdim can only mean currying and its funny for me when turks use it for taking someone to somewhere which in turkmen means carrying someone to somewhere )

ben furkanı hastaneye akiddim (i took furkan to hospital )

again here a as perfix add to the word git ( go ) to create new word take ( which only used when you taking some one to somewhere )

the word for 'normal take' (taking objects ) is al for both turkmen and turkish

the last difference is the words that are common in both turkmen and turkish but have different meaning
like yarraq which means weapon in turkmen but it means D!ck in turkish or the word KIZGIN which in turkmen means hot but in turkish means angry

the rest are same . its around 50% to 70% understandable in my opinion
 

Nilgiri

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well the first and most obvius example is the fact that we use th for z (that for example) and th for s (thus for example ) while anatolians dont have these voices (and some others) for example the word *you* is sen in turkish and then (s) in turkmen the big difference is in the alien words for example turkmen are more influence with Persian and Russian words and pronounciation of that words other then that most grammar and and main words are same but 1 small grammatical difference that are unique to us are the suffix and prefix in turkish turks only have suffix they add only to the end of the word to make new words however we have some few prefix for example

turkish : ver = give , gonder = send

turkmen : ver = give , Ever = send (the E is a perfix added to the word ver (give ) which in return crate new word send )

or

turkish : git= go , götürdim= take / curry

ex : ben furkanı hastaneye götürdum (i took furkan to hospital )

turkmen : git = go , akid = take (götürdim can only mean currying and its funny for me when turks use it for taking someone to somewhere which in turkmen means currying someone to somewhere )

ben furkanı hastaneye akiddim (i took furkan to hospital )

again here a as perfix add to the word git ( go ) to create new word take ( which only used when you taking some one to somewhere )

the word for 'normal take' (taking objects ) is al for both turkmen and turkish

the last difference is the words that are common in both turkmen and turkish but have different meaning
like yarraq which means weapon in turkmen but it means D!ck in turkish or the word KIZGIN which in turkmen means hot but in turkish means angry

the rest are same . its around 50% to 70% understandable in my opinion

Thank you for this most wonderful reply....I sure enjoyed reading it and getting your perspective on it.

At larger level I find it quite fascinating that Turkic languages, along with Tungusic languages, Mongolian, Korean and Japanese are agglutinative....giving hint to some shared influences or ancestors/proto-languages in the past.

i.e they combine word cognates/morphemes to make longer words to convey meaning etc....rather than leave them separate (like in Chinese, which I know through Cantonese).

Turkic and steppe/altaic languages share this with my Dravidian branch of language (Tamil is also highly agglutinative for example)....and we also stand out in this feature somewhat more compared to our indo-european languages in north of india.

Also while I was reading up a bit on the turkmen wiki page, I came across your great poet:


I now remembered you had him as your display pic earlier heh.

BTW I love Turkmenistan flag, visually it looks so aesthetic to me!
 

asena_great

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Thank you for this most wonderful reply....I sure enjoyed reading it and getting your perspective on it.

At larger level I find it quite fascinating that Turkic languages, along with Tungusic languages, Mongolian, Korean and Japanese are agglutinative....giving hint to some shared influences or ancestors/proto-languages in the past.

i.e they combine word cognates/morphemes to make longer words to convey meaning etc....rather than leave them separate (like in Chinese, which I know through Cantonese).

Turkic and steppe/altaic languages share this with my Dravidian branch of language (Tamil is also highly agglutinative for example)....and we also stand out in this feature somewhat more compared to our indo-european languages in north of india.

Also while I was reading up a bit on the turkmen wiki page, I came across your great poet:


I now remembered you had him as your display pic earlier heh.

BTW I love Turkmenistan flag, visually it looks so aesthetic to me!


thank you for kind replay its surprising that my people's culture come to your attention , i also kinda curious how the Dravidian branch language work you Indians have very beautiful culture its looks exotic to me
 

Nein2.0

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Actually Ottomans hadn't even been in close Turkistan either in far east, so that they couldnt have continued. İ am always interested in relationships between Ottomans and Turkistan countries.
There were some desperate attempts after collapse of Russian empire but Bolsheviks hindered Turan.

Ottoman Empire had relations with the Kazakh Khanate. Ottomans also sent aid to Yakub Bey of East Turkistan who was fighting the Qing Dynasty.

Some Ottoman Prisoners of war ended up in Siberia when some escaped some stayed in Central Asia during Ww1 and the Russian Civil War.

When Ottoman Prisoners of war were marched into Russia a lot of Tatars helped our soldiers by giving them aid while Armenians attacked our soldiers by spitting and punching them.
 

UkroTurk

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Ottoman Empire had relations with the Kazakh Khanate. Ottomans also sent aid to Yakub Bey of East Turkistan who was fighting the Qing Dynasty.

Some Ottoman Prisoners of war ended up in Siberia when some escaped some stayed in Central Asia during Ww1 and the Russian Civil War.

When Ottoman Prisoners of war were marched into Russia a lot of Tatars helped our soldiers by giving them aid while Armenians attacked our soldiers by spitting and punching them.
Anyway Fatih or Kanuni never interested in central asia where todays Uzbekistan, Türkmenistan, Azerbaycan. They could have tried to conquer but they didn't
 

Nein2.0

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Anyway Fatih or Kanuni never interested in central asia where todays Uzbekistan, Türkmenistan, Azerbaycan. They could have tried to conquer but they didn't

Whats the point in conquering when the Ottoman Empire would have overstretched its lines already.

The reason why we conquered the Balkans, Middle East and North Africa because they were close to us.

To reach Central Asia meant we had to take on Iran also the Mughal Empire of Babur itself. Plus the Ottomans already had relations before Babur we backed the Uzbeks against the Safavids and Babur. But we did not want Babur to get close with the Safavids so we started backing Babur who went on to conquer parts of Central Asia and parts of India we even sent volunteers to help.

If the Ottoman Empire actually conquered Iran I think most likely the gateway to central asia would be opened. Then again this means the Ottomans would have to fight Central Asian Turks just to conquer their land. Lets be honest our brothers and sisters from Orta Asya wont be pushovers they will fight hard. Lets not forget the Russians only conquered Turkistan around the late 1800s. Even with modern weapons and a modern army the Central Asian Turks fought hard until they got conquered and colonised.
 

Nilgiri

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thank you for kind replay its surprising that my people's culture come to your attention , i also kinda curious how the Dravidian branch language work you Indians have very beautiful culture its looks exotic to me

Its quite similar, using prefix and suffix to indicate more meanings on position, tense, negation etc etc to original word.

Normally they are just two or three bits (verbs, qualifier, plural etc etc) so its simple to think in term of suffix and prefix in 90% of cases....but there is no strict limit to number of "bits". Here is example of fairly long one:

போகமுடியாதவர்களுக்காக

pokamutiyatavarkalukkaga

poka = go
muti = do/accomplish
ata = cannot
var = person
kal = plural
ukk = to
aga = for

So in English one would say separate words (relatively analytically):

For (sake of) those (people) who cannot go

English itself like most indo-european languages is somewhat synthetic/fusional in this regard, in that has analytical and agglutinative components.

For example the word "noticeably" and lot of adverbs etc ...i.e notice + able + y ... plurals (addition of s etc) is another common one but fairly simple as are verb conjugations, negations (adding a as prefix) etc....but lot of analytic structure is the default.

Long atypical words like antidisestablishmentarianism etc show how agglutination happen in English from time to time.

Apparently this is an extreme case in Turkish:

Muvaffakiyetsizleştiriciveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesine 😲

and it means something like: "as if you were of those we would not be able to turn into a maker of unsuccessful ones"

Indonesian and Malay are another example of agglutinative languages @AlphaMike @anmdt @Madokafc @Indos

Such words (even short common ones like nasilsiniz in turkish) are completely impossible in (orthodox) Chinese though, Chinese is extremely analytical, there is very little agglutination compared to most languages.

Even plural in Chinese you cannot just add an "s" at end etc.....rather you have to specify a number and/or add a quantity word separately like "some" or "several" or various units etc....but people will often understand anyway if you are beginner and mess something up etc.

That said Chinese is taking on agglutinative "slang" in spoken colloquial forms increasingly.

@Joe Shearer @VCheng @Saiyan0321
 

Indos

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Its quite similar, using prefix and suffix to indicate more meanings on position, tense, negation etc etc to original word.

Normally they are just two or three bits (verbs, qualifier, plural etc etc) so its simple to think in term of suffix and prefix in 90% of cases....but there is no strict limit to number of "bits". Here is example of fairly long one:

போகமுடியாதவர்களுக்காக

pokamutiyatavarkalukkaga

poka = go
muti = do/accomplish
ata = cannot
var = person
kal = plural
ukk = to
aga = for

So in English one would say separate words (relatively analytically):

For (sake of) those (people) who cannot go

English itself like most indo-european languages is somewhat synthetic/fusional in this regard, in that has analytical and agglutinative components.

For example the word "noticeably" and lot of adverbs etc ...i.e notice + able + y ... plurals (addition of s etc) is another common one but fairly simple as are verb conjugations, negations (adding a as prefix) etc....but lot of analytic structure is the default.

Long atypical words like antidisestablishmentarianism etc show how agglutination happen in English from time to time.

Apparently this is an extreme case in Turkish:

Muvaffakiyetsizleştiriciveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesine 😲

and it means something like: "as if you were of those we would not be able to turn into a maker of unsuccessful ones"

Indonesian and Malay are another example of agglutinative languages @AlphaMike @anmdt @Madokafc @Indos

Such words (even short common ones like nasilsiniz in turkish) are completely impossible in (orthodox) Chinese though, Chinese is extremely analytical, there is very little agglutination compared to most languages.

Even plural in Chinese you cannot just add an "s" at end etc.....rather you have to specify a number and/or add a quantity word separately like "some" or "several" or various units etc....but people will often understand anyway if you are beginner and mess something up etc.

That said Chinese is taking on agglutinative "slang" in spoken colloquial forms increasingly.

@Joe Shearer @VCheng @Saiyan0321

I dont know that you are also expert on language :p
 

Nilgiri

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I dont know that you are also expert on language :p

I know 5 pretty well, I am working on my 6th...so yeah I notice some similarities and differences between them w.r.t structure/syntax.

I didn't know what the exact words for describing these (many short words vs one long huge word etc) was till more recently.
 

Indos

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I know 5 pretty well, I am working on my 6th...so yeah I notice some similarities and differences between them w.r.t structure/syntax.

I didn't know what the exact words for describing these (many short words vs one long huge word etc) was till more recently.

What is the reason of you to learn 6 languages ??? :eek:

LOL you are a diligent person he he. I am not quite diligent actually, I have some intention to learn Arabic so that I can understand Quran even more despite there are already a translated version but I am so lazy to do so.... :rolleyes:
 
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