TR Air Defence Programs

[Zafer]

The acceptance process of the Missile Launch System and Missile Transport and Loading System of the HISAR-A Low Altitude Air Defense Missile System has been completed

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379450442510262273

This is probably still not the Hisar A+ as it is not stated as such.

 

[Combat-Master]

KORKUT COMMAND & CONTROL VEHICLE

KORKUT SELF PROPELLED AIR DEFENSE GUN SYSTEM

FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM - AIR DEFENSE PLATOON

35mm MODERNIZED TOWED CANNONS

ZIPKIN - TRUCK MOUNTED VSHORAD MISSILE

ATILGAN - TRACK MOUNTED VSHORAD MISSILE

 

[TheInsider]

Hisar-A+ will only be produced as APC mounted variant(45 launcher vehicles/15systems). The order for the truck version of Hisar-A+(45 launcher vehicles/15systems) is replaced with Hisar-O+. A total of 90 Hisar-O+ launchers(30 systems) will be produced.

Hisar-O+ serial production might start as early as December 2021. Tests of the Hisar-O+ (RF variant) are going on without problems according to schedule.
Siper firing tests will start next year. Serial production will start by the second half of 2023. Siper missile will have dual seeker (IIR and RF seeker). All Turkish air defense missiles have two-way datalink capability.
There are 2 more air defense system projects other than Siper. One of them will have exoatmospheric interception capability. The planned production date is 2027-28.

 

[Turko]

Hisar-A+ will only be produced as APC mounted variant(45 launcher vehicles/15systems). The order for the truck version of Hisar-A+(45 launcher vehicles/15systems) is replaced with Hisar-O+. A total of 90 Hisar-O+ launchers(30 systems) will be produced.

Hisar-O+ serial production might start as early as December 2021. Tests of the Hisar-O+ (RF variant) are going on without problems according to schedule.
Siper firing tests will start next year. Serial production will start by the second half of 2023. Siper missile will have dual seeker (IIR and RF seeker). All Turkish air defense missiles have two-way datalink capability.
There are 2 more air defense system projects other than Siper. One of them will have exoatmospheric interception capability. The planned production date is 2027-28.

are you really an insider?

 

[Khagan1923]

Hisar-A+ will only be produced as APC mounted variant(45 launcher vehicles/15systems). The order for the truck version of Hisar-A+(45 launcher vehicles/15systems) is replaced with Hisar-O+. A total of 90 Hisar-O+ launchers(30 systems) will be produced.

So 90 FFSx6 =540 Missiles for Hisar-O+
and 45 FFSx6 = 270 Missiles for Hisar-A+

 

[Turko]

So 90 FFSx6 =540 Missiles for Hisar-O+
and 45 FFSx6 = 270 Missiles for Hisar-A+

İt would cost almost 1 billion USD !!??

 

[TheInsider]

It will cost around 1.5 billion$. Over 500 Hisar-A+ and over 1000 Hisar-O+ missiles (IIR and RF variant) will be produced but we are talking about a ~10 year period here.

 

[Stuka]

It will cost around 1.5 billion$. Over 500 Hisar-A+ and over 1000 Hisar-O+ missiles (IIR and RF variant) will be produced but we are talking about a ~10 year period here.

Can you tell us about the ranges ?

Hisar A+
Hisar 0+
Hisar 0+ RF
Siper

Range and Altitude ?

 

[TheInsider]

Range varies between 15 and 50kms depending on target altitude.
Hisar-A+ 25+km(17 miles @30k feet)
Hisar-O+ 40+km(27 miles @45k feet)
Hisar-O RF ~50km (30miles @45k feet)

Max interception altitude is 40k feet for Hisar-A and @54k feet for Hisar-O

 

[Tsenal]

Range varies between 15 and 50kms depending on target altitude.
Hisar-A+ 25+km(17 miles @30k feet)
Hisar-O+ 40+km(27 miles @45k feet)
Hisar-O RF ~50km (30miles @45k feet)

Max interception altitude is 40k feet for Hisar-A and @54k feet for Hisar-O

I don't know where you got those numbers but you are very wrong.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I don't know where you got those numbers but you are very wrong.

His name implies he is a person with firsthand knowledge right?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

His name implies he is a person with firsthand knowledge right?

For precise information, Roketsan gives ranges to cover areas with optimum hit probability, but these numbers are exaggerated. However, as the Hisar RF has a larger hull, the effective range could be at least 40km / 19km because each missile made goes into service to replace another missile. Hisar RF is being developed to replace Hawks.

 

[Turko]

It will cost around 1.5 billion$. Over 500 Hisar-A+ and over 1000 Hisar-O+ missiles (IIR and RF variant) will be produced but we are talking about a ~10 year period here.

Before mass production of 1500 missiles, the missiles and systems should proof themselves. 10 year long term production plan sounds too early. At least they need to be refined.

 

[TheInsider]

For precise information, Roketsan gives ranges to cover areas with optimum hit probability, but these numbers are exaggerated. However, as the Hisar RF has a larger hull, the effective range could be at least 40km / 19km because each missile made goes into service to replace another missile. Hisar RF is being developed to replace Hawks.

You are wrong there is something called physics and it is independent of Roketsans "redacted" range figures.
Hisar-O+ is a 300kg missile with a dual pulse rocket engine. Its flight characteristics are expected to be at least similar(it is in fact way better) to a missile-like ESSM(280kg).
If we are developing a 300kg missile with a 25km range we should stop producing it. There is more info that can be deducted by trained eyes. Like the length and diameter of the missile, the color of the rocket flame, etc.

Hisar-RF doesn't have a larger body. It is nearly the same as the Hisar-O+ IIR version. Replacing IIR with an RF seeker improves the aerodynamic characteristics of the missile so there is a small jump in range.

Mr. İbrahim Sünnetçi also gives similar range and altitude figures but I think his altitude figure is a little higher and his range figure is a little lower.

 

[Anmdt]

Range varies between 15 and 50kms depending on target altitude.
Hisar-A+ 25+km(17 miles @30k feet)
Hisar-O+ 40+km(27 miles @45k feet)
Hisar-O RF ~50km (30miles @45k feet)

Max interception altitude is 40k feet for Hisar-A and @54k feet for Hisar-O

These ranges are given for no escape zone or effective ranges?, or maximum achiaveble ranges to be travelled by missile from point A to B with its booster on?
I mean if a range is given, it should be told what that range is for.

Such as: ESSM's maximum range is way above whats written as effective maximum range.

You are wrong there is something called physics and it is independent of Roketsans "redacted" range figures.
Hisar-O+ is a 300kg missile with a dual pulse rocket engine. Its flight characteristics are expected to be at least similar(it is in fact way better) to a missile-like ESSM(280kg).
If we are developing a 300kg missile with a 25km range we should stop producing it. There is more info that can be deducted by trained eyes. Like the length and diameter of the missile, the color of the rocket flame, etc.

Hisar-RF doesn't have a larger body. It is nearly the same as the Hisar-O+ IIR version. Replacing IIR with an RF seeker improves the aerodynamic characteristics of the missile so there is a small jump in range.

Mr. İbrahim Sünnetçi also gives similar range and altitude figures but I think his altitude figure is a little higher and his range figure is a little lower.

Then if you are an insider you supposed to know second pulse is spared for terminal engagement stage, not usually accounted for the range.

And typically ESSM would be expected to have a longer range because it uses a single pulse engine spared for entire flight, with possible a higher speed. And specifically designed for particular group of targets (targets which aimed at the platform it is fired from)

While there are missiles around in size of ESSM but with a lot higher range, yet they travel slower.

Hisar RF is not point defense missile of the Navy, G40 will be. I don't think it will be possible to quadpack Hisar-RF as well.

For a point defense missile a single pulse engine would be more preferable to keep costs low since it is meant to engage missiles, while a medium range air defense missile is meant to engage broader group of targets, thus better if have a second pulse to engage highly maneuvaring manned targets.

So it is not simply a comparison of weight and diameter, length: but what is that missile designed for (what kind of target), at which speed it flies, for which altitude it is designed.

 

[Anmdt]

Hisar-RF doesn't have a larger body. It is the nearly the same as the Hisar-O+ IIR version. Replacing IIR with an RF seeker improves the aerodynamic characteristics of the missile so there is a small jump in ran

My entire aerodynamic knowledge goes to the sink.
Hisar-O uses a aerodynamic fairing (a cap) to protect IIR sensor from the heat, and the cap is detached in the terminal stage when the missile on its own to engage the target.

Hisar-RF has slightly larger upper body to fit the Active RF seeker, thus a bigger second stage (pulse) probably because it is requested as such, this could be why the range increases. Moreover it could be expected Hisar-O RF to be heavier as well.

 

[TheInsider]

My entire aerodynamic knowledge goes to the sink.
Hisar-O uses a aerodynamic fairing (a cap) to protect IIR sensor from the heat, and the cap is detached in the terminal stage when the missile on its own to engage the target.

Hisar-RF has slightly larger upper body to fit the Active RF seeker, thus a bigger second stage (pulse) probably because it is requested as such, this could be why the range increases. Moreover it could be expected Hisar-O RF to be heavier as well.

Hisar-RF has a lower coefficient of drag exactly the same reason you wrote. Lower drag less energy bleed longer range. Stop writing stupid things and turn this a two-man quarrel.

 

[TheInsider]

TheInsider said:
Range varies between 15 and 50kms depending on target altitude.
Hisar-A+ 25+km(17 miles @30k feet)
Hisar-O+ 40+km(27 miles @45k feet)
Hisar-O RF ~50km (30miles @45k feet)

Max interception altitude is 40k feet for Hisar-A and @54k feet for Hisar-O

These ranges are given for no escape zone or effective ranges?, or maximum achiaveble ranges to be travelled by missile from point A to B with its booster on?
I mean if a range is given, it should be told what that range is for.

Such as: ESSM's maximum range is way above whats written as effective maximum range.

TheInsider said:
You are wrong there is something called physics and it is independent of Roketsans "redacted" range figures.
Hisar-O+ is a 300kg missile with a dual pulse rocket engine. Its flight characteristics are expected to be at least similar(it is in fact way better) to a missile-like ESSM(280kg).
If we are developing a 300kg missile with a 25km range we should stop producing it. There is more info that can be deducted by trained eyes. Like the length and diameter of the missile, the color of the rocket flame, etc.

Hisar-RF doesn't have a larger body. It is nearly the same as the Hisar-O+ IIR version. Replacing IIR with an RF seeker improves the aerodynamic characteristics of the missile so there is a small jump in range.

Mr. İbrahim Sünnetçi also gives similar range and altitude figures but I think his altitude figure is a little higher and his range figure is a little lower.
Click to expand...

Then if you are an insider you supposed to know second pulse is spared for terminal engagement stage, not usually accounted for the range.

And typically ESSM would be expected to have a longer range because it uses a single pulse engine spared for entire flight, with possible a higher speed. And specifically designed for particular group of targets (targets which aimed at the platform it is fired from)

While there are missiles around in size of ESSM but with a lot higher range, yet they travel slower.

Hisar RF is not point defense missile of the Navy, G40 will be. I don't think it will be possible to quadpack Hisar-RF as well.

For a point defense missile a single pulse engine would be more preferable to keep costs low since it is meant to engage missiles, while a medium range air defense missile is meant to engage broader group of targets, thus better if have a second pulse to engage highly maneuvaring manned targets.

So it is not simply a comparison of weight and diameter, length: but what is that missile designed for (what kind of target), at which speed it flies, for which altitude it is designed.

My figures are effective ranges and I'm %99.9 positive that they are the real effective ranges.

 

[Anmdt]

Hisar-RF has a lower coefficient of drag exactly the same reason you wrote. Lower drag less energy bleed longer range. Stop writing stupid things and turn this a two-man quarrel.

Lower coefficient drag because of what actually?, please enlighten me.
Both hisar-O and hisar-RF has conical caps on the tip. While hisar-O has a wider body, thus more frictional surface.
While hisar-O also have more fuel for second pulse, or maybe first pulse as well.

 

[Anmdt]

Hisar-RF has a lower coefficient of drag exactly the same reason you wrote. Lower drag less energy bleed longer range. Stop writing stupid things and turn this a two-man quarrel.

This forum is open to discuss anything, and nothing i wrote is stupid. So people can quote your messages and open discussions.
Maybe have some manners first?