TR Air Force News & Discussion

Yasar

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According to the president of SSM , Mr Demir, the “Ozgur” project has been a success. The Aesa radar for the f16 will be fitted “soon”
If this soon is 2021 , then the Turkish f16’s will be in block v70 status and better before the Greek ones.
Although details of the Aesa radar Turkish F16’s are going to have, are not shared publicly; the area coverage and the number of modules in the Galium- nitride based radar head in the nose of the Turkish f16’s suggests that this radar will be superior to the an/apg83 radar, LM is using in their block 70. With the number of radar modules, the Aselsan radar is similar to the an/apg81 radar used on F35. This will mean our f16’s will be able to identify Greek V70’s long before they can see our f16’s. Hence the lack of urgency on side of TAF, when the Greek side announced Rafale and V70 purchase.
The important point is how many of our F16’s we will be able to make “Ozgur” and how quickly. Will the US put a spanner in the works by not allowing their planes to be tampered with? Or after 25 years of ownership do we have free reign over the f16’s?
 
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Yasar

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I guess , quantity of f16s would be as much as the amount of deposit of f35. :p
The 30 or so block 30 f16 planes are free to be upgraded. These are actually the most agile and manoeuvrable planes we have. So they will make ideal air to air combat planes. The maintenance work on the structure is going on and they will hopefully be made ozgur gradually by 2023.
block 40’s and 50’s however are a different story. 29 block50+ plus are too new and out of the question anyway. But block 40’s and block 50’s can be made Ozgur if there is no hindrance from the US side. Or we work with them by purchasing the necessary kits etc.
 

Glass🚬

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Would be cool if they have this camo then:

mg-9725.jpg

mg-9733.jpg

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A

adenl

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The important point is how many of our F16’s we will be able make “Ozgur” and how quickly. Will the US put a spanner in the works by not allowing their planes to be tampered with? Or after 25 years of ownership do we have free reign over the f16’s?
Important question you have asked. I have heard that after 30 years one was free to modify the plane, but I don't have hard sources to back it up. Seeing as the first F-16 arrived in '87, and a total of 160 f-16's arrived between '87 and '95, there are up to 160 f-16 ready to be converted to the Ozgur from now till 2025(exclude the losses in those 160).
 
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Yasar

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Hurjet will hava an Aesa radar. This means that the plane is not going to be a “trainer only”. But the GE-F404 engine they are going for is not the most powerful in it’s class. I only hope that an indigenous engine is being worked on , like the TFX engine, for this plane too.
 

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Hurjet will hava an Aesa radar. This means that the plane is not going to be a “trainer only”. But the GE-F404 engine they are going for is not the most powerful in it’s class. I only hope that an indigenous engine is being worked on , like the TFX engine, for this plane too.

It will have light attack/fighter variant

License production for F404 engines would be very good


Among the main purposes of the Turboshaft Engine Development Project (TEDP) is the establishment of a gas turbine engine design and the development of infrastructure and the knowledge to facilitate such a development process. Thus, the core technology of the TS1400 Engine shall also form the basis for the indigenous turbofan engine (in 8,500lbf to 9,500lbf thrust class) needed for the HURJET New Generation Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) & the Light Attack Aircraft Development Project, and it will be possible to develop the national aircraft engine when needed, upon any necessary technological additions to the capabilities gained under the TEDP.

They could test different variants of Hurjet with different engines in the future.
 

Yasar

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It will have light attack/fighter variant

License production for F404 engines would be very good


Among the main purposes of the Turboshaft Engine Development Project (TEDP) is the establishment of a gas turbine engine design and the development of infrastructure and the knowledge to facilitate such a development process. Thus, the core technology of the TS1400 Engine shall also form the basis for the indigenous turbofan engine (in 8,500lbf to 9,500lbf thrust class) needed for the HURJET New Generation Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) & the Light Attack Aircraft Development Project, and it will be possible to develop the national aircraft engine when needed, upon any necessary technological additions to the capabilities gained under the TEDP.

They could test different variants of Hurjet with different engines in the future.
In theory what is written here is sort of correct. But;
8500-9500lbf thrust engine is not enough to power the Hurjet, unless you use two of these engines. Hurjet is a single engined plane now.
Also to prove that we can build a gas turbine engine has been fulfilled with TEI building the TS1400.
But a turbo shaft engine, especially an engine like ts1400 that is a radial flow engine, can not be turned in to a turbofan engine. Turbofan engine has to be an axial flow engine. This means, all the blade angles and airflow geometry has to be changed and the engine has to be greatly re-engineered accordingly.
The highlighted sentence above is correct. But it must not be thought that you can pick up a TS1400 and turn it in to a high bypass turbofan engine. Yes. The “core” technology is achieved with ts1400. This will lead the way to developing and producing a turbofan engine.
In a radial flow engine the air is circulated radially inside the engine. As there is no need for jet thrust, the power of air jettisoned is not important. Air circulating will rotate the turbine to power the rotor blades.
In an axial flow engine the compressor and turbine blades are so angled that the air is pushed out at high pressure through the nozzle to create thrust.
Two totally different styles of gas turbine engines! Turbo-shaft and Turbofan
 
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Yasar

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It will have light attack/fighter variant

License production for F404 engines would be very good


Among the main purposes of the Turboshaft Engine Development Project (TEDP) is the establishment of a gas turbine engine design and the development of infrastructure and the knowledge to facilitate such a development process. Thus, the core technology of the TS1400 Engine shall also form the basis for the indigenous turbofan engine (in 8,500lbf to 9,500lbf thrust class) needed for the HURJET New Generation Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) & the Light Attack Aircraft Development Project, and it will be possible to develop the national aircraft engine when needed, upon any necessary technological additions to the capabilities gained under the TEDP.

They could test different variants of Hurjet with different engines in the future.
Correct! If TEI could produce a F404 engine in house at the same basis of the T700 engine it is producing for the Blackhawk helicopters, it would be great.
 

Bogeyman 

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In theory what is written here is sort of correct. But;
8500-9500lbf thrust engine is not enough to power the Hurjet, unless you use two of these engines. Hurjet is a single engined plane now.
Also to prove that we can build a gas turbine engine has been fulfilled with TEI building the TS1400.
But a turbo shaft engine, especially an engine like ts1400 that is a radial flow engine, can not be turned in to a turbofan engine. Turbofan engine has to be an axial flow engine. This means, all the blade angles and airflow geometry has to be changed and the engine has to be greatly re-engineered accordingly.
The highlighted sentence above is correct. But it must not be thought that you can pick up a TS1400 and turn it in to a high bypass turbofan engine. Yes. The “core” technology is achieved with ts1400. This will lead the way to developing and producing a turbofan engine.
In a radial flow engine the air is circulated radially inside the engine. As there is no need for jet thrust, the power of air jettisoned is not important. Air circulating will rotate the turbine to power the rotor blades.
In an axial flow engine the compressor and turbine blades are so angled that the air is pushed out at high pressure through the nozzle to create thrust.
Two totally different styles of gas turbine engines! Turbo-shaft and Turbofan

The US is developing UCAV for air-to-air warfare. UCAV started flying 2.5 years from the contract date. It will have a 2000 km range, Electronic Warfare capability, and ISR capability. UCAV is expected to carry 2 of the Lockheed Martin Medium Range Air Missile CUDA or Raytheon's Medium-Range air to air missile Peregrine.

UCAV can develop a similar concept for air-to-air battles in Turkey. The engine to be used for this project can be based on the TS-1400 turboshaft engine.
I think we have an advantage, as UCAVs do not require engines as large as a warplane.
 

Yasar

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The US is developing UCAV for air-to-air warfare. UCAV started flying 2.5 years from the contract date. It will have a 2000 km range, Electronic Warfare capability, and ISR capability. UCAV is expected to carry 2 of the Lockheed Martin Medium Range Air Missile CUDA or Raytheon's Medium-Range air to air missile Peregrine.

UCAV can develop a similar concept for air-to-air battles in Turkey. The engine to be used for this project can be based on the TS-1400 turboshaft engine.
I think we have an advantage, as UCAVs do not require engines as large as a warplane.
We do need a jet UAV going forward. As I explained above the TS1400 engine can not be transformed in to a turbofan engine. But a turbofan engine redesigned around TS1400 engine that would give a thrust of 8500-9500lbf thrust would be ideal for a stealth jet UAV. Being a turbofan it would be more economical at subsonic speeds. It could carry usable loads up to 2 tons and have around 300km line of sight range as per the TB2. This plane can easily carry air-to-air missiles and stand-off ammunition like som-j and hgk-er. It would be a deep strike craft. It would be a stealth fighter craft.
 
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Tsenal

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Considering Typhoon is a multinational project, if Turkey wanted to purchase this aircraft from the UK, can the other members of the consortium veto the sale?
 

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