TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Spitfire9]

Did you tell that to KSA too?

I would have.

 

[Barry]

Throwing stones in glass houses, tbh.

 

[Spitfire9]

Throwing stones in glass houses, tbh.

Sure. The EU countries are known for locking up politicians, making expressions of opposition to the government by the people illegal, muzzling or controlling the media, arresting journalists etc, so what right do EU countries have to oppose similar tyranny in Turkiye?

 

[Zoth]

Sure. The EU countries are known for locking up politicians, making expressions of opposition to the government by the people illegal, muzzling or controlling the media, arresting journalists etc, so what right do EU countries have to oppose similar tyranny in Turkiye?

You don't even realise how hypocritical you sound with this take, that's all i gotta say.

 

[uçuyorum]

If we shoot 100 billion tomorrow to fund German businesses, have a nice working relationship with Israel and no issues with Greece on Greece's terms, I'm sure they will listen to us closely. We are not KSA. We can't afford to be KSA.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. This is insane.

We could have afforded, we chose to waste money other things, we can blow 50 billion when we want.

 

[Proportions]

Germany, who sees Türkiye as an enemy for the sake of a thief and his gang. I hope Russia comes after you.

 

[Barry]

Sure. The EU countries are known for locking up politicians, making expressions of opposition to the government by the people illegal, muzzling or controlling the media, arresting journalists etc, so what right do EU countries have to oppose similar tyranny in Turkiye?

I've got a different perspective coming from a people that's been continually shit on by Europe for daring to survive ethnic cleansing and the following decades of white Europe telling us we're not allowed self-determination unless we submit our rights, equality and lives to our former genocidal neighbours. Still waiting for the promises of lifting their inhumane isolation for doing EVERYTHING that they wanted of us, but still telling us to go kick rocks.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Sure. The EU countries are known for locking up politicians, making expressions of opposition to the government by the people illegal, muzzling or controlling the media, arresting journalists etc, so what right do EU countries have to oppose similar tyranny in Turkiye?

To be fair Marie le pen also was arrested but I guess that’s justified because it’s in France and don’t get me wrong there are massive deficits in the Turkish judiciary but what’s the point of arresting your biggest opponent but not meddling in the elections. And some of the accusations against imamoglu are somewhat credible with his diploma being (fake) /(chp and akp are corrupt but akp at least gets something done)

 

[Oublious]

Sure. The EU countries are known for locking up politicians, making expressions of opposition to the government by the people illegal, muzzling or controlling the media, arresting journalists etc, so what right do EU countries have to oppose similar tyranny in Turkiye?

lol

How about israel?

 

[mTT]

lol

How about israel?

democracy, freedom

Spoiler: ....

uh sorry just MONEY

MONEY > democracy+freedom

 

[Spitfire9]

lol

How about israel?

Indeed. Responsible for appalling injustices and war crimes. I find it shameful that the European countries criticise it so little and take even less action against it.

 

[RMZN]

Indeed. Responsible for appalling injustices and war crimes. I find it shameful that the European countries criticise it so little and take even less action against it.

They do take action, its just that those actions are to enable israel and not hamper its genocidal and expansionist tendencies.

Bottom line is that at the end of the day the Germans have the stronger negotiating position and can do as they want. Imamoglus arrest hast no been of service to Turkish national interest whatsoever and it was entirely predictable that the German government would act in this way. Erdogan practically gave them the best excuse to halt the sale without having to face pressure by the other consortium members.

 

[Spitfire9]

You don't even realise how hypocritical you sound with this take, that's all i gotta say.

That's your view.

One thing that surprises me is that in the string of responses to my post, nobody is prepared to acknowledge that what I wrote is true about Turkiye and untrue (written for effect) about the EU countries.

Le Pen? Not a big deal what she did but she should have been more careful. Politicians know that there are strict rules governing the spending of state funds provided to them.

The election of my local MP in the UK was nearly overturned because the expenses incurred in his election campaign (not state funds) might have exceeded the limit allowed. Reason? Ironically a number of government ministers travelled to my town to speak in his support. There was a question as to whether their travel expenses (my MP did not pay them) should be seen as part of his election campaign expenses. He was accused of fraud. It transpired that a party member had deceived him about the actual expenses incurred. In the end a court decided he was not aware of that and was found not guilty of fraud. The party member received a prison sentence.

Politicians need to be very careful to obey the rules. Le Pen was not.

 

[Zoth]

That's your view.

One thing that surprises me is that in the string of responses to my post, nobody is prepared to acknowledge that what I wrote is true about Turkiye and untrue (written for effect) about the EU countries.

What you don't understand is that we already know what is true and untrue about Turkey and we don't need someone else to parrot it to us the same old song about democracy and freedom stuff.
Anyone who openly states that those sales are blocked/vetoed due to "democratic reasons" is either a delusional person or lying on purpose for some certain agenda or simply they are living in another reality.

 

[Spitfire9]

What you don't understand is that we already know what is true and untrue about Turkey and we don't need someone else to parrot it to us the same old song about democracy and freedom stuff.
Anyone who openly states that those sales are blocked/vetoed due to "democratic reasons" is either a delusional person or lying on purpose for some certain agenda or simply they are living in another reality.

Democracy and freedom stuff is important to the people of Europe. Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

If the Turkish government wants to buy Eurofighter, there is an easy way to do that - stop behaving in an autocratic, dictatorial manner. Start behaving as your constitution demands - respect democracy. Europe does not want a de facto dictatorship on its doorstep.

 

[boredaf]

Some of us and some of our governments will continue to parrot it to countries wanting to buy our kit. We don't support despots.

Fucking hell, isn't air getting a bit thin on your high horse? If you truly believe that UK or other EU countries actually give a flying fuck about "despots" as you put it, then I got a bridge to sell you. It is slightly used but in a great location, you'd love it.

Your condescending tone is truly not appreciated at all, especially when you're spouting bullshit like this. Take a good fucking look at which countries your beacons of democracy sold weapons to, which countries they gifted favourable policy decisions to and educate yourself a bit before spouting this stuff. Europe had no trouble selling weapons to Israel or Saudi Arabia while they were committing genocide but here you come and act as if countries actually give a fuck about this stuff, other than to sell this to people like you so that you can feel superior to others.

 

[Spitfire9]

Fucking hell, isn't air getting a bit thin on your high horse? If you truly believe that UK or other EU countries actually give a flying fuck about "despots" as you put it, then I got a bridge to sell you. It is slightly used but in a great location, you'd love it.

Your condescending tone is truly not appreciated at all, especially when you're spouting bullshit like this. Take a good fucking look at which countries your beacons of democracy sold weapons to, which countries they gifted favourable policy decisions to and educate yourself a bit before spouting this stuff. Europe had no trouble selling weapons to Israel or Saudi Arabia while they were committing genocide but here you come and act as if countries actually give a fuck about this stuff, other than to sell this to people like you so that you can feel superior to others.

If they don't, as you put it, 'give a fuck about this stuff' then why is it that they don't all want to take the profit to be made from selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

 

[boredaf]

If they don't, as you put it, 'give a fuck about this stuff' then why is it that they don't all want to take the profit to be made from selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

Because there are factions within these countries, certainly in Germany, that hated us long before Erdogan was even close to power. I don't know how old you are, but I'm certainly old enough to remember their rhetoric from those times. If they truly fucking cared, then they would've applied those principles evenly to every other country. The fact that they don't proves that they only use it as an excuse to bludgeon the countries that they either feel enmity towards, or deem unimportant enough that they can grandstand without much consequence and people like you will gobble it up and then prance around on their high horses.

Go and take a look at weapons sales from UK and other European countries in the last few decades, take a look at where your militaries were deployed and what they did, take a good look at which countries did you sanction and which countries you increased your trade with at the same time. If you still don't see it, you're wilfully ignorant and I have nothing more to say to someone like that.

 

[Spitfire9]

I'm sorry, locking up the politician most likely to defeat Erdogan in a free election was what prompted this as far as I can see. Before that and all the demonstrations that followed, Germany was agreeable to Eurofighter supply. What you say about German dislike/hatred for Turkiye being the cause does not make sense to me. If that were the reason, how come Germany ever agreed to selling Eurofighter to Turkiye?

 

[Pokemonte13]

I think what our Turkish friends are angry about is the double standard of nato allies who justify their restrictions on military sales to turkey for 50 on issues of democracy and human rights but in the same breath sell stuff to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar or any other Middle Eastern/north African countries.