TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Nilgiri]

The F-35 is like marmite.
You either love it or hate it.

Guess I'm odd man out then heh.... as I am almost perfectly neutral towards it.

It's merely a vessel that exists and has absorbed what it needs to (from the funding positive pressure) from the development chains of this tech era.

i.e an inevitable product. It could have gone better, it could have gone worse. The bulk of hands played in poker etc.

What I love are high stakes stuff that pushed the frontier truly....with high element of risk and reward....that orient and set these development chains and tech trees for the bulk stuff to grow behind.

 

[Cenkcnk]

Iran purchased 24 su35S's, every neighbour country are upgrading its air fleet, f-35's, rafales, Su-35's etc, And I don't trust ours that they are planning accordingly.

 

[Zafer]

At this rate of development in 5 years the only countries that will still match Turkish Air Force will be US, CN and possibly RU.

 

[Nutuk]

Non of them are a match for Turkiye.

We should stop thinking in short terms with stopgaps. Put full power into development of Hurjet, Kizilelma, ANKA-3, TFx, this is the way!


I don't really get why the Ozgur upgrade is this much delayed, money should be poured into this instead of chasing the US congress

 

[Afif]

At this rate of development in 5 years the only countries that will still match Turkish Air Force will be US, CN and possibly RU.

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

 

[Nutuk]

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.
It is Turkey that is trying to catch up right?

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

Catcing up with US or China is out of question.

China is 1.5bln people
US is 52 states (each richer than Turkiye) with 350mln people

There is no way that we can catch up with our current economy. We ain't trying to match up with US or China, we try to be the dominating power in our neighborhood

 

[Afif]

Catcing up with US or China is out of question.

China is 1.5bln people
US is 52 states (each richer than Turkiye) with 350mln people

There is no way that we can catch up with our current economy. We ain't trying to match up with US or China, we try to be the dominating power in our neighborhood

You are right, there is no catching up with US or China.
I meant catching up with technology development in general.

 

[Nutuk]

You are right, there is no catching up with US or China.
I meant catching up with technology development in general.

Catching up with technology is easier.

Not that we can be frontrunners in tech (also this is economy and population mass related), but todays interconnection, internet, international education possibilities makes catching up with technology easier.

 

[Zafer]

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

I only mean in terms of air force technology level. China is struggling with engine technology and the US fighters are becoming outdated. So there is an opportunity to be a front runner in this field.

We do not need to compete with the US or CN in economy or overall military power.

 

[Sanchez]

US operates 300 F-35s, 180 F-22s, and hundreds of F-15s. Most of their operational F-16s are not at a worse level than ours. They are still dominating in the drones field as most of what they do is not exported. Stuff like MQ-25 and XQ-58 is only a portion of what they have available.

China makes their jets and locally built hundreds of J-10s(completely serviceable aircraft and a match for F-16s) and J-20s, they are also rapidly increasing their footprint in big drones.

Akıncı while a lovely platform, is a match for an enlarged Reaper and Kızılelma is nothing more than tech demonstrator at this stage with maybe a decade on its way to become an actual thing. Tech and software needed to make it an actual platform is immense. The aircraft itself is only a tiny portion of the equation.

We do not yet even have the engines for MMU's 4th prototype and are dependent on US' goodwill to supply them. No paper is yet signed to develop the local engine needed for MMU block 20. No development yet exists for MMU's local engines. I'm not even adding the part where we have no idea if the US will sell the engines for the first LRIP batches for MMU.

It is great to have a vision for the future and our dreams to hold onto, but we are not catching up to either one of them anytime soon. Selling TB2s or underpowered Aksungurs to SEA nations is good business but it is just business, it doesn't win the conflicts we are thinking about having in the next decades. Call it dost acı söyler.

I don't really get why the Ozgur upgrade is this much delayed, money should be poured into this instead of chasing the US congress

Modifying another's platform is hard work and we only have the source codes for B30s. All F-16s we have were bought via FMS and US has the option to not allow us to modify them, which is surprisingly something I don't see mentioned about nearly enough. Why was T70s Aselsan avionics were delayed which is one of the reasons why we will have less than projected platforms now if US congress doesn't extend the license is somewhat related to all this.

 

[Nutuk]

Modifying another's platform is hard work and we only have the source codes for B30s. All F-16s we have were bought via FMS and US has the option to not allow us to modify them, which is surprisingly something I don't see mentioned about nearly enough. Why was T70s Aselsan avionics were delayed which is one of the reasons why we will have less than projected platforms now if US congress doesn't extend the license is somewhat related to all this.

Even if only the block 30's than still there is no satisfactory reason given by SSB why all these delay occurs. Even upgrade of blk 30 will take 1-2 years, why it is taking this long to start Ozgur integration is beyond me

 

[Zafer]

It is great to have a vision for the future and our dreams to hold onto, but we are not catching up to either one of them anytime soon.

What is so inconceivable about matching China or US in fighter technology: The moment the indigenous TFX engine flies is the moment we match CN in fighter technology and the moment first TFX goes on a mission powered by a Turkish made engine is the moment we match American fighter technology. At that time the F35 eats dust and the F22 already a hair ahead. The shortcomings of the initial TFX engine can be compensated by the advantages of The TFX.

I bet that time will come in 5 years. TR Motor is already working on it albeit without a contract.

Kızılelma is nothing more than tech demonstrator at this stage with maybe a decade on its way to become an actual thing

Kızılelma is slated to hit serial production by the end of this year. It may take many more years to become fully autonomous but it is still ahead of all the competition already. Give it an engine like the TF6000 it will be a champion in a few years.

What I am saying is not impossible and is actually very likely.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Even if only the block 30's than still there is no satisfactory reason given by SSB why all these delay occurs. Even upgrade of blk 30 will take 1-2 years, why it is taking this long to start Ozgur integration is beyond me

Is the AESA radar for Ozgur ready ? I don’t think it is, that’s why the modernization program is taking so long.

 

[Rodeo]

Is the AESA radar for Ozgur ready ? I don’t think it is, that’s why the modernization program is taking so long.

The latest info we got on AESA was that it was supposed be delivered to BAYKAR in early January and we heard nothing from it since then. It might have already been delivered.

 

[I_Love_F16]

The latest info we got on AESA was that it was supposed be delivered to BAYKAR in early January and we heard nothing from it since then. It might have already been delivered.

Okay, now supposing it was actually delivered to Baykar, wasn’t it more logical and faster to test it on an actual F-16 instead of a drone ? Assuming the modernization program is an absolute necessity ?

 

[Heartbang]

At that time the F35 eats dust and the F22 already a hair ahead.

TFX will be better than the F22 with its smarts. Call it a 35+22= F-57 if you will. Shame Russians took that naming logic and utterly squandered it.

 

[Heartbang]

Okay, now supposing it was actually delivered to Baykar, wasn’t it more logical and faster to test it on an actual F-16 instead of a drone ? Assuming the modernization program is an absolute necessity ?

The idea was to speed up the testing process by using a platform like Akinci to fly uninterrupted.

 

[what]

The idea was to speed up the testing process by using a platform like Akinci to fly uninterrupted.

Testing on a drone is probably more cost-effective, too.

 

[YeşilVatan]

TFX will be better than the F22 with its smarts. Call it a 35+22= F-57 if you will. Shame Russians took that naming logic and utterly squandered it.

Bro that's kidding yourself. F-22 will be the best fighter jet well into the 2030s. Do you really think Americans wouldn't upgrade their super-duper fighter jet since 90s?

MMU will be a wonder and change the game, but not by being the best. It will be mediocre at first, and gradually one of the best. The real problem for our adversaries will be that we wouldn't be builled by proxy warfare anymore. We mostly achieved this objective with drones already, but our adversaries still have cards up their sleeve (like arming their Greek vassals). This plane is about that. If we can manage to sustain obvious military dominance against our neighbours, the west has no chance to either confront us head-on or negotiate. Direct confrontation is a horrible idea for them because we'd be like Iran but ten times worse for them (or way, way worse; North Korea). Their other choice is that they would have to negotiate things as more or less equals which is anathema to those bunch of hypocritical hyenas that's why they do embargoes.

This is why MMU is our technological war of independence. "TFX can smesh F-22" is really far-fetched.

 

[Heartbang]

"TFX can smesh F-22" is really far-fetched.

In a purely kinematic sense, you're right. That sucker flies like no other. Best we can do is to match it.
But F22 can't have the smarts of the F35. They can and will try as hard as they can, they won't be able to. That's just the way its been designed.
TFX has the upper hand like that.