TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Afif]

APG-81 is also not the latest and greatest. It is a 20+ year old radar.

Technically yes. But it is indeed the best one out there today. No other fighter has better radar than F-35. And continue to be until APG-85 comes along in 2025.

 

[uçuyorum]

It is being reported that at the end US basically said either accept Sweden into Nato or we will intoduce F35 bill for Greece to congress on its own and good luck passing F16 deal on its own from congress

 

[TheInsider]

Technically yes. But it is indeed the best out there. And continue to be until APG-85 comes along in 2025.

Nope.

Raytheon’s APG-79(V)4 is a derivative of APG-79 radar system. It features the first airborne gallium nitride (GaN) AESA fire-control technology.

GaN-AESA radar helps the airmen to identify and track the enemy’s aircraft from far distances with more precision, while fulfilling the aircraft’s power and cooling requirements.

The new APG-79(V)4 radar system is similar, in terms of technology and components, to the current AN/APG-79 radar used in the USMC’s F/A-18 Hornet aircraft fleet.

Raytheon tests APG-79(V)4 ASEA radar on USMC F/A-18 Hornet

Raytheon Intelligence & Space have successfully conducted the first flight of its pre-production APG-79 (V) 4 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system.

www.naval-technology.com

 

[Afif]

Nope.

Raytheon tests APG-79(V)4 ASEA radar on USMC F/A-18 Hornet

Raytheon Intelligence & Space have successfully conducted the first flight of its pre-production APG-79 (V) 4 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system.

www.naval-technology.com

Just having GaN tech does not necessarily makes it best though. GaN offer wider bandwidth and efficiency in terms of cooling due to higher voltage tolerace. Which is good but from my understanding, radar's performance is more impacted by antenna gain, reciever gain, better beam directivity, & back end software sophistication. And these has more to do with T/R modules design, GaN itself does not impact any of these criterias afaik. Besides, iirc APG-81's processing is done by F-35's central processing core. (Although it is not the case with APG-83.)

 

[TheInsider]

SABR is the radar that can be used by last gen F16 variants and is offered to F16 customers as last gen. We expect Murad AESA to show better performance. Let me know if there is a newer version other than SABR for F16s. Yes, RBE-2 is not a last gen radar but it is AESA.

SABR is the best F-16 can get until MURAD becomes available but it is not the latest AESA technology.

 

[TheInsider]

Just having GaN tech does not necessarily makes it best though. GaN offer wider bandwidth and efficiency in terms of cooling due to higher voltage tolerace. Which is good but from my understanding, radar's performance is more impacted by antenna gain, reciever gain, better beam directivity, & back end software sophistication. And these has more to do with T/R modules design, GaN itself does not impact any of these criterias. Besides, afaik APG-81's processing is done by F-35's central processing core. (Although it is not the case with APG-83.)

APG-79 and APG-81 are the same generation radars, and both use similar technologies.

AN/APG-81 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chocopie]

Turkiye
315 Aircraft (with EF) with all last gen AESA and BVR + KAAN Block10/20(2030+) + Anka-3-4 (AESA), Kizilelma-B-C (AESA)

Greece
220 Aircraft with 108 of them (F16V+ Rafale F3R) have AESA and last gen BVR, 18 of them (Mirage-2000BG) will be out of the service until 2030 I guess and 24 of them (Mirage 2000-5) won't get any upgrade.

+ up to 40 F35A with No new missiles (2030+)

**F4's at both side are excluded

That‘s an optimistic outlook if everything goes fine according to plans.

The bleak reality right now is: TurAF has zero active fighter jet with AESA radar and BVR missiles. While Greece already operates 12 Rafale F3R with AESA and Meteor AAM and 10 F-16V with AESA and AMRAAM.

Murad AESA radar although installed on 1 Akinci and 1 Özgür F-16 (?) is still in test phase and not in serial production for the foreseeable future afaik.

 

[uçuyorum]

The most positive aspect of this purchase to me is that at least we can compare murad to APG83 and analyze the detection of KAAN by it.

 

[TheInsider]

The most positive aspect of this purchase to me is that at least we can compare murad to APG83 and analyze the detection of KAAN by it.

True, but if MURAD can perform as well as half of the lab performance it will be better than SABR.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

SABR is the best F-16 can get until MURAD becomes available but it is not the latest AESA technology.

I didn't say SABR is the latest AESA tech in radars but It is certain that it is the latest of its generation F16's best variant can use and this make it the last gen for F16s a customer can purchase. That's what I meant

 

[Cabatli_TR]

That‘s an optimistic outlook if everything goes fine according to plans.

The bleak reality right now is: TurAF has zero active fighter jet with AESA radar and BVR missiles. While Greece already operates 12 Rafale F3R with AESA and Meteor AAM and 10 F-16V with AESA and AMRAAM.

Murad AESA radar although installed on 1 Akinci and 1 Özgür F-16 (?) is still in test phase and not in serial production for the foreseeable future afaik.

Yes, optimistic but It is still an option. We will wait and see the direction.

 

[Ryder]

Every weapon system the USA and EU sells will always come with strings attached.

Turkiye will have to find stop gap solutions while upping its domestic built to 100% full power.

This cant go on for long. USA basically pissing on Turkiye. But wait the day when Turkiye can piss on them but it will take decades.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Alternatives ? I told before .

1- Upgrade ourselfs all f16 fighter jets
2- Speed up Kaan 5gen fighter and its engine
3- build large number of CENK & TAYFUN
-Do u think even if we buy f16 will Usa bring them tomorrow? at least not before 2027 while we build Kaan in 2028
And we need alot of money to build our weapons , Frigates , Mildens, drones , SAMs etc etc

I recently saw an interview with Temel Kotil on YouTube.
He said that nothing can be accelerated, new knowledge comes with research, there is no button you press and it comes by itself, it is hard work that costs a lot of time and money.

From the realization of the research of a material to the real test material to test and improve its properties.
It takes time and money to get to the first pre-series product, which is then subjected to a test run over several months or years.
Then comes the test from the government to get approval at all through certificates & co, also over several months & years.
Only then does series production take place, e.g. in the exterior material of an aircraft in the form of composite material or alloys with other materials.
You can't speed things up, either you hire foreign engineers who can speed things up with the risk of espionage or you continue with what you have in terms of human resources.

Now transfer my example to every product in our armed forces that is currently in prototype status.
Let it be engines, thrusters, radar absorbing material, AESA radar, software or ammunition.
These can be totally banal things like a screw that has to withstand extremely strong temperature fluctuations for a short time without the material expanding and contracting again, as is the case with heat and cold, for example.

 

[UcanTost]

so does anyone have a summary regarding this deal? did anyone have an opinion besides, "we got fucking buttfucked dry in the anus" ?

 

[Nutuk]

Turkiye should buy more upgrade kits and cancel buying new F16's, their delivery time is just not worth it. Buy maybe some AA missiles and keep the cost at minimum

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Turkiye should buy more upgrade kits and cancel buying new F16's, their delivery time is just not worth it. Buy maybe some AA missiles and keep the cost at minimum

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

 

[boredaf]

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

LM inspected Tusaş facilities last year and given that Tusaş is produced the most number of F-16s outside the US, there is a very good chance that we are going to build our own F-16s an will build them for others, which will turn into more funds for Tusaş. It'd be really shocking if we didn't, as it would harm LM as much as us, their production lines are pretty tied up and they might miss out on orders because of that.

 

[TheInsider]

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

F-15EX is a no go from the US side.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW I don't understand this deal. Why didn't we ask to integrate our own weapons and pods into F-16Vs? We should have brought this into the negotiations. This deal makes zero sense and logic.

 

[Nutuk]

Simply go full rate on Ozgur upgrade, Turkiye has the TAI and Tomtas facilities. Upgrade them in record time to Ozgur blk II level