TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[uçuyorum]

Fuel cost can be much lower which is a significant cost for its lifetime. But with sensors etc it likely won't be too cheap. 30-50 mil each likely

 

[TR_123456]

1 F-16 Fiyatına 20 KIZILELMA!

🔴Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA insansız savaş uçağının maliyet ve teknoloji avantajını vurguladı—❝İnsanlı herhangi bir şeyden çok daha maliyet etkin. Çünkü bu...

www.youtube.com

 

[Huelague]

You just can't accept your idol is outright lying; there is no debate here. We don't debate whether the Earth is round or flat. You can believe whatever you want. The Earth is round, independent of what you believe, and I'm not here to change your mind. I'm here to write a note to correct disinformation for whoever reads this forum.

You mentioned the wrong person. You mean @Zafer

 

[Zafer]

You mentioned the wrong person. You mean @Zafer

Zafer knows no idol, he gives credit to where credit is due, like anyone should. Having been involved in aviation since mid-teens I can tell a miracle when I see one.

 

[duveil]

Selcuk Bayraktar is considered as successful man. He achieved to be the face of Turkish drone industry with tb2. But this time he also fu.ked up by saying sth impossible. This mistake doesnt erase the good he had done . So I am confused why the hell people feels bound to defend every aspect of every idea. I guess if you put people on a pedestal after some time you loose your objectivity.

 

[Zafer]

Fuel cost can be much lower which is a significant cost for its lifetime. But with sensors etc it likely won't be too cheap. 30-50 mil each likely

You can ask this price when you sell it to foreign buyers but the cost to produce the system totally depends on how cheap you can make the product's components. A vertically integrated Baykar making most of the components from airframe to engine and to sensors and all in house can very well minimize the cost to produce the product to a 5th to a 10th of the cost of a 5th or a 6th generation fighter. You guys should be able wrap your heads around this idea. This production capability matters when you are at war and with help of Baykar Türkiye can afford it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

1 F-16 Fiyatına 20 KIZILELMA!

🔴Selçuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA insansız savaş uçağının maliyet ve teknoloji avantajını vurguladı—❝İnsanlı herhangi bir şeyden çok daha maliyet etkin. Çünkü bu...

www.youtube.com

He has truly boo-booed big time here.
Mixed up cost of manufacture with cost of buying whilst exaggerating out of proportions to make a point.

@TheInsider has made it clear in his posts as well.

The guy is a genius in his field. He has the good luck of being well connected. He should know better to rein in his salesmanship impulses.

The KE is the future of air combat. But with a turbofan jet engine, a state of the art Murad Aesa radar and avionics, plus munitions that are suitable for such a platform and ground control units, it’s cost to prospective buyers is not going to be too far off most manned aircrafts like JF17 and baseline f16. One mustn’t forget the fact that good capable ground operators/pilots are also needed for these.

 

[Saithan]

We have a saying, burnu biraz sürtülsün. Which means it's time to get down from that high horse.

Like @Yasar_TR said he's fortunate to have right connections.

 

[TR_123456]

He has truly boo-booed big time here.
Mixed up cost of manufacture with cost of buying whilst exaggerating out of proportions to make a point.

@TheInsider has made it clear in his posts as well.

The guy is a genius in his field. He has the good luck of being well connected. He should know better to rein in his salesmanship impulses.

The KE is the future of air combat. But with a turbofan jet engine, a state of the art Murad Aesa radar and avionics, plus munitions that are suitable for such a platform and ground control units, it’s cost to prospective buyers is not going to be too far off most manned aircrafts like JF17 and baseline f16. One mustn’t forget the fact that good capable ground operators/pilots are also needed for these.

Yes by his logic the KE would cost $80 million devided by 20 which is $4 million a piece and what makes it cheaper then the TB-2 at $5 millon a piece.
Acting like its done without having a NATO standard engine is also a ridiculous claim.
But why not,if they eat it just feed them more.

 

[Zafer]

Selçuk Bayraktar is talking about when fighter jets are offered to some buyers at premium prices like the ones custom made for the UAE. In those cases the prices go up exponentially. He should tone down his narrative to the perception capability of the audience who mixes up hypothetical talk with reality.

 

[Turkic]

Yes by his logic the KE would cost $80 million devided by 20 which is $4 million a piece and what makes it cheaper then the TB-2 at $5 millon a piece.
Acting like its done without having a NATO standard engine is also a ridiculous claim.
But why not,if they eat it just feed them more.

Ig you didn't read the thread.

He didn't say that

He said Kızılelma will be 5-10 times cheaper than manned fighter jets.

Later Fulya forced him on the topic and he said "I can't say if it will be 20 times cheaper. Fighter jets aren't sold for fixed prices. It can be 20-30 times cheaper if you count all (referring to the Eurofighter/Rafale sales with a price tag of up to 300 million euros per jet when all spare parts and others added)"

It's not the exact conversation. I translated with what's left in my mind from last night but that was what he said. He said 5-10 times cheaper than 5th gen manned fighters. When he said 20-30 times was after Fulya asked him if it will be 20 times cheaper than F-16.

So it's not Selçuk's fault but media's.

 

[Ripley]

‘Tis Sick, bruh

the best visual of the shoot is at 1:38

Hope they release higher res images as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1953491646647017492

“The Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team soared over Beyşehir Lake; our Göktürk-1 Satellite immortalized this moment from space.

This moment, where courage in the skies met space technology (the Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team flying at an altitude of 100 meters with a speed of 740 km/hour, and Göktürk-1 at an orbital altitude of 686 km with an orbital speed of 7.5 km/second), became a photograph of a national harmony and coordination locked onto its target.”

 

[Sanchez]

‘Tis Sick, bruh

the best visual of the shoot is at 1:38

Hope they release higher res images as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1953491646647017492

“The Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team soared over Beyşehir Lake; our Göktürk-1 Satellite immortalized this moment from space.

This moment, where courage in the skies met space technology (the Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team flying at an altitude of 100 meters with a speed of 740 km/hour, and Göktürk-1 at an orbital altitude of 686 km with an orbital speed of 7.5 km/second), became a photograph of a national harmony and coordination locked onto its target.”

Bigger news is that they have 7 aircraft simultaneously. They've been flying with 6 for so long. Maintenance guys must have saved up another airframe, heroes.

 

[Quasar]

-I am hoping that we solve the engine issue for KIZILELMA and ANKA 3 as soon as possibe with domestic engines sure it may effect the price tag of KIZILELMA and ANKA 3. Further, I strongly belive that both KIZILELMA and ANKA3 will have diffrent configurations so making price comparisons to F 16 is mainly for public consumption I guess.

-Contrary to the common assumption ( which lacks sound arguments to support it) KIZILELMA & ANKA have unprecedented potantial as a complementary assets in BVR engagement in network centric warfare and Even in some cases they have the potantial to hold the ground even when they are alone without a manned fighter aircraft. Making them operational and developing a doctrine and strategies is vital.

-I think we may all agree that in Air to Air engagements not only the platform but also the A2A missles you have is equally important and in some cases even more important.

 

[godel44]

‘Tis Sick, bruh

the best visual of the shoot is at 1:38

Hope they release higher res images as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1953491646647017492

“The Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team soared over Beyşehir Lake; our Göktürk-1 Satellite immortalized this moment from space.

This moment, where courage in the skies met space technology (the Turkish Stars Acrobatic Team flying at an altitude of 100 meters with a speed of 740 km/hour, and Göktürk-1 at an orbital altitude of 686 km with an orbital speed of 7.5 km/second), became a photograph of a national harmony and coordination locked onto its target.”

For the record, IIRC Gokturk-1 has 0.5 m resolution in panchromatic spectra and it captures flying jets very well. It makes you think what would happen if we were to have continuous monitoring with multiple satellites in relevant areas and were able to detect stealth jets in real time.

 

[Zafer]

For the record, IIRC Gokturk-1 has 0.5 m resolution in panchromatic spectra and it captures flying jets very well. It makes you think what would happen if we were to have continuous monitoring with multiple satellites in relevant areas and were able to detect stealth jets in real time.

A satellite constellation like the Starlink is essentially an AESA radar network with global coverage. We need one for ourselves too and we can put visual observation on top of it to zoom into movement with a smaller number of optical satellites.

 

[Samba]

A satellite constellation like the Starlink is essentially an AESA radar network with global coverage. We need one for ourselves too and we can put visual observation on top of it to zoom into movement with a smaller number of optical satellites.

I assume this is why Elon Musk is shouting that stealth is just a gimmick. They may be seeing all f35s and f22s with the use of Starlink

 

[Zafer]

I assume this is why Elon Musk is shouting that stealth is just a gimmick. They may be seeing all f35s and f22s with the use of Starlink

Probably but satellite transmission is probably only half of the trick, I would say possibly ground antenna transmission complements the detection process. So it is absolutely necessary to avoid Starlink service in the regions of interest to us. But this is just my guess.

 

[Yasar_TR]

For the record, IIRC Gokturk-1 has 0.5 m resolution in panchromatic spectra and it captures flying jets very well. It makes you think what would happen if we were to have continuous monitoring with multiple satellites in relevant areas and were able to detect stealth jets in real time.

How are you going to follow planes over cloud cover?
You need large (and I mean humongous) antennae to give you Synthetic Aperture Radar pictures over cloud cover.

Also you need satellites that are at geosynchronous orbit (not geostationary or in line with the equator) to have continuous coverage. That is a satellite some 38K km above earth.
Not 685km above us like Göktürk, that has a sun synchronous orbit and allows the satellite to visit over a 640km wide specific area every 2.5 days.

 

[godel44]

How are you going to follow planes over cloud cover?
You need large (and I mean humongous) antennae to give you Synthetic Aperture Radar pictures over cloud cover.

Also you need satellites that are at geosynchronous orbit (not geostationary or in line with the equator) to have continuous coverage. That is a satellite some 38K km above earth.
Not 685km above us like Göktürk, that has a sun synchronous orbit and allows the satellite to visit over a 640km wide specific area every 2.5 days.

The point about cloud cover is valid but this is a sensor fusion game where you combine optic sensors and SAR, the latter of which is not affected by clouds. For example, you can even now use ESA's Sentinel-1 to get free SAR data if the optical Sentinel-2 suffers from cloud cover. You definitely don't need humongous antennae either. Modern SAR satellites like ICEYE and Capella have 3-5 meter deployable reflectors and still get 0.25–1 m resolution through clouds.

With regards to orbits, you would actually want to stay in low earth orbit and have a constellation for this type of task so that you shorten revisit times to minutes. Starlink has proven this type of density is feasible technically. If you were to go to geosynchronous orbit, you sacrifice a lot of geospatial resolution simply because you are that high up. This is why most observation satellites (except for meteorology) are at low earth orbit.

So, in theory, with a large enough LEO constellation combining SAR and optical (including NIR and other relevant infrared bands) and some efficient computer vision algorithms, you can detect stealth jets. It comes down to cost and engineering effort, but I bet somebody will do it in the end. In Turkey's case the areas you want to monitor are not that large (seas around us and Syria), so it should be quite doable at some time in the future if there is a will.