TR Aircraft Carrier & Amphibious Ship Programs

[BalkanTurk90]

We should cancel Mugem since we dont habe 5gen manned fighter for it and concentrete all power om frigates , destroyers and submarines . All world is buiding army like no tomorrow , Japan buiding 23 New FFP Frigates 142 meter . We shpuld aslo bulid more . Another 8 bigger istanbul class and 12 Tf2000 destroyers is a must to protect Blue homeland amd not spent money on AC with drones

 

[Pokemonte13]

We should cancel Mugem since we dont habe 5gen manned fighter for it and concentrete all power om frigates , destroyers and submarines . All world is buiding army like no tomorrow , Japan buiding 23 New FFP Frigates 142 meter . We shpuld aslo bulid more . Another 8 bigger istanbul class and 12 Tf2000 destroyers is a must to protect Blue homeland amd not spent money on AC with drones

We don’t know how many ships navy wants or if it will start a new program. Mugem is not for the Defense of the Blue homeland but for force projection

 

[BalkanTurk90]

We don’t know how many ships navy wants or if it will start a new program. Mugem is not for the Defense of the Blue homeland but for force projection

A navy commander if i remember correctly or even Erdogan told that we will double the Navy .
And just 8 İstanbul and 8 Tf 2000 are not enough while we need to retire rusty 4 yavuz and 8 Perry class . thats 16 new , - 12 . Just 4 added Not double so thats why i said Cancel useless MUGEM and 8 useles Hisar and in their place buld more frigates & Destroyers .
İn modern warfare a enemy in one way or anothet will find a way and will attack your AC , putting thousends of sailors at rist & billions $ .
U aslo can Force projection with 12-16 TF 2000 . U can park 5 of them at enemy coast and bomb enemy all day & Night

 

[uçuyorum]

Mugem is not a priority but there is no reason to cancel it either. With çafrad, vls and KE / ANKA 3 it's a different capability. Do not think of it as equal of US /UK / FR / China carriers, it's its own thing

 

[AlperTunga]

We should cancel Mugem since we dont habe 5gen manned fighter for it and concentrete all power om frigates , destroyers and submarines . All world is buiding army like no tomorrow , Japan buiding 23 New FFP Frigates 142 meter . We shpuld aslo bulid more . Another 8 bigger istanbul class and 12 Tf2000 destroyers is a must to protect Blue homeland amd not spent money on AC with drones

I agree with you, we need more Istif frigates and TF2000 destroyers. But they won't cancel it, as it is sort of a prestige project. It may still be useful for places like Libya, Somalia etc. It is quite big for a drone carrier and has enough place, so instead of 32VLS they should consider 64 or even 96 such that it can better protect itself. The reason is we won't have sufficient number of war ships to protect it, so it should be largely self-sufficient.

 

[uçuyorum]

I agree with you, we need more Istif frigates and TF2000 destroyers. But they won't cancel it, as it is sort of a prestige project. It may still be useful for places like Libya, Somalia etc. It is quite big for a drone carrier and has enough place, so instead of 32VLS they should consider 64 or even 96 such that it can better protect itself. The reason is we won't have sufficient number of war ships to protect it, so it should be largely self-sufficient.

Well 32 VLS + 2-3 ciws should be enough for self protection. TF2000 needs that many VLS because that is its main armament. MUGEM's main armament is jet drones. You won't launch gezgin from it unlike destroyers. And it will likely stay farther away from threats.

 

[Sanchez]

And just 8 İstanbul and 8 Tf 2000 are not enough while we need to retire rusty 4 yavuz and 8 Perry class . thats 16 new , - 12 . Just 4 added Not double so thats why i said Cancel useless MUGEM and 8 useles Hisar and in their place buld more frigates & Destroyers .

If you look at it from VLS count, it's basically a 5x increase.

Navy currently have 96 VLS cells, it will have 560 once 8 Istifs and 4 TF2000s are delivered, and 944 if 4 more TF-2000s are delivered, 10x increase.

Add the 10 Hisars, and we will have enough ships to cover everywhere we need to be.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

If you look at it from VLS count, it's basically a 5x increase.

Navy currently have 96 VLS cells, it will have 560 once 8 Istifs and 4 TF2000s are delivered, and 944 if 4 more TF-2000s are delivered, 10x increase.

Add the 10 Hisars, and we will have enough ships to cover everywhere we need to be.

İ dont look like that , U should see the upgrade accroding the time VLS is modern tech that we use for now . Others like italy ,japan ,korea will aslo add more VLS .
What u gonna say in future when vls is outdated and replaced with laser weapon ? warship is warship and replaced with another warship doesnt matter whay u add or remove ...

 

[dBSPL]

Another topic that is not given enough importance in our media: breakthroughs will also be experienced within the air wing of the aircraft carrier group just like air defense systems and other naval-related industrial. Multiple variants will be developed based on two main types (KE and ANKA) of turbofan-powered UCAVs. Variants will be created based on at least one main type of turbodiesel MALE UCAV. And at least one main type of manned light attack/air control/training jet aircraft will be developed, which will definitely lay the groundwork for the creation of a new generation of stealth manned jet in the coming decades. On the rotary wing side, a medium/heavy class utility/multi-mission helicopter is also being developed. In addition, at least one main type of rotary wing tactical UAV system will also be included. In addition to all this, the navalization of Gökbey is also being discussed. With 6/8 main aircraft types, this represents a domestic industrial breakthrough that will fully meet the needs of naval aviation ship-based air platforms.

The Turkish aviation industry's capacity to meet the air group needs of the naval forces, in addition to the air force and land forces, could place it at the forefront of the elite class, just behind the military aviation superpowers of the US and China. The fact that the gap with traditional European military aviation industry centers is closing so rapidly in this field is an incredible achievement. (In fact, we are starting to take lead of them in some specific areas)

What really excites me about the aircraft carrier program is that it represents the beginning of a full-scale naval aviation industry. Ofc then there are the TF-2000 arsenals. Hehe.

 

[boredaf]

The Turkish aviation industry's capacity to meet the air group needs of the naval forces, in addition to the air force and land forces, could place it at the forefront of the elite class, just behind the military aviation superpowers of the US and China.

Or, more realistically, it could leave us short on all three branches, as has been the case for a long time now. Committing all these capital and resources into something that isn't something fundamentally necessary for us is just wasteful.

Most of the stuff this thing is going to require doesn't even exist yet, we are planning to put a bloody trainer on it and we don't even have the ships to form a carrier group around it without leaving us short on our own shores even with all the planned ships we have. Hell, we don't even have the necessary things to operate Anadolu properly, nor do we have an actual mission for it! It is a fucking floating fair display right now.

Entire thing is masturbatory help, so that it can be said that we have an aircraft carrier. If we actually had people who cared for the country all the material and manpower resources and money could've been used for things we need far more than an aircraft carrier that is going to get stuck in the bloody Mediterranean the second if Egypt or Western countries turns on us.

 

[mTT]

MUGEM INDIFENOUS AIRCRAFT CARRIER

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1968244781454381502

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1968244781454381502

They are showing the information card and then contradicting it by saying Kaan will be used on it.

 

[Ripley]

fgg

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1968040449299411140

“Selçuk Bayraktar:

(Landing of Kızılelma on TCG Anadolu)

KIZILELMA can take off from the ship but requires arresting cables for landing.

Our Naval Forces are designing a larger ship.[*MUGEM]

With that ship, Kızılelma will both take off and land.

This will open a completely new chapter for Turkish naval aviation.”


Seems that we won’t have to explode our brains off anymore on the composition of air wings on future MUGEM.
Kızılelma and maybe Anka 3. Those two could have been easily based on a 30-35K purpose built carrier.
MUGEM getting more and more extravagant.

 

[boredaf]

Those two could have been easily based on a 30-35K purpose built carrier.

Yeap. We could have a purpose build Trakya and use it in tandem with Anadolu; which would provide ISR with TB3s while Trakya could be the strike force with KE and Anka-3. It would cost only a fraction of what a carrier would cost and we can use the rest of those funds to build a stronger surface and submarine force.

But nope, we have to have an aircraft carrier that we don't need, and use it with a trainer turned naval jet.

 

[Zafer]

fgg

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1968040449299411140

“Selçuk Bayraktar:

(Landing of Kızılelma on TCG Anadolu)

KIZILELMA can take off from the ship but requires arresting cables for landing.

Our Naval Forces are designing a larger ship.[*MUGEM]

With that ship, Kızılelma will both take off and land.

This will open a completely new chapter for Turkish naval aviation.”


Seems that we won’t have to explode our brains off anymore on the composition of air wings on future MUGEM.
Kızılelma and maybe Anka 3. Those two could have been easily based on a 30-35K purpose built carrier.
MUGEM getting more and more extravagant.

Once the several engines in development are made more plane variety will emerge. A catapult upgrade will also boost capabilities justifying more planes. A carrier has many decades of life it will be used to its maximum.

 

[Lool]

fgg

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1968040449299411140

“Selçuk Bayraktar:

(Landing of Kızılelma on TCG Anadolu)

KIZILELMA can take off from the ship but requires arresting cables for landing.

Our Naval Forces are designing a larger ship.[*MUGEM]

With that ship, Kızılelma will both take off and land.

This will open a completely new chapter for Turkish naval aviation.”


Seems that we won’t have to explode our brains off anymore on the composition of air wings on future MUGEM.
Kızılelma and maybe Anka 3. Those two could have been easily based on a 30-35K purpose built carrier.
MUGEM getting more and more extravagant.

And Hurjet as well
With arresting cables in place; Hurjet can also land on MUGEM

The main question is whether KAAN can land on it or not

 

[IC3M@N FX]

With an engine like the F-404 in the Hürjet and Kizilelma with an AI 322F/TF 10000 (both same class engine), this will be very difficult, if not impossible, especially with a heavy payload.
Let's assume that, for whatever reason, we develop a catapult and arresting arm/cable in time.
Who do we want to fly against? The Hürjet aircraft, as it stands in its military version, doesn't stand a chance against a Rafale M or F-18 Super Hornet, and it would be literally torn apart in the air by the F-35B/C.
Against Russian/Chinese or even Indian MIG29K or SU-33s, it would be just as ineffective, as they all have a completely different level of kinetics and are also being modernized with AESA radar and other equipment.

The Hürjet should have been equipped with two F-404 engines from the outset. It would no longer be a trainer, but honestly..... honestly man im really angry we don't need a fucking trainer!
You can get one anywhere from South Korea, Italy, and, if necessary, the US. There are zero restrictions on the export of training aircraft to Turkey...
We need fighter jets, and a Hürjet in the class of an F-18 Super Hornet should have been developed from the outset, not as a trainer. I don't understand the concept, and even if Kizilelma comes with two engines, the drone is a support platform in air combat and not a standalone system, even if Baykar thinks otherwise. The moment the data link breaks, no matter how much AI is in it, it's over. The drone has lost the air battle. We are not the US, and we are not developing Terminators like the T-800 with their own consciousness that make independent decisions.

 

[Iskander]

With an engine like the F-404 in the Hürjet and Kizilelma with an AI 322F/TF 10000 (both same class engine), this will be very difficult, if not impossible, especially with a heavy payload.
Let's assume that, for whatever reason, we develop a catapult and arresting arm/cable in time.
Who do we want to fly against? The Hürjet aircraft, as it stands in its military version, doesn't stand a chance against a Rafale M or F-18 Super Hornet, and it would be literally torn apart in the air by the F-35B/C.
Against Russian/Chinese or even Indian MIG29K or SU-33s, it would be just as ineffective, as they all have a completely different level of kinetics and are also being modernized with AESA radar and other equipment.

The Hürjet should have been equipped with two F-404 engines from the outset. It would no longer be a trainer, but honestly..... honestly man im really angry we don't need a fucking trainer!
You can get one anywhere from South Korea, Italy, and, if necessary, the US. There are zero restrictions on the export of training aircraft to Turkey...
We need fighter jets, and a Hürjet in the class of an F-18 Super Hornet should have been developed from the outset, not as a trainer. I don't understand the concept, and even if Kizilelma comes with two engines, the drone is a support platform in air combat and not a standalone system, even if Baykar thinks otherwise. The moment the data link breaks, no matter how much AI is in it, it's over. The drone has lost the air battle. We are not the US, and we are not developing Terminators like the T-800 with their own consciousness that make independent decisions.

The Hürjet doesn't interfere with the development of a fully-fledged fighter. Produce it and sell it. Very few countries in the world produce combat aircraft, and even fewer produce trainers.
The Hürjet was developed as a trainer. And the fact that it can perform other functions is a plus. Just don't compare it to the F-16, or you'll be disappointed. Its performance is best compared only to trainers, and you'll see that in some respects it even surpasses them. For example, with the Russian Yak-130. But even they have customers.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

No one is saying that the aircraft is completely wrong, only that it should have been developed as a third priority rather than a first priority ahead of the TAI KAAN.

Turkey needs as many fighter jets as possible, and Hürjet in its current form, even in its military version, is useless; it cannot fulfill this task. This is not a big deal, as it is a training/light combat aircraft for patrol and CAS missions, and KAAN will take on this role as a multi-purpose air superiority fighter alongside the F-16 Özgür II.
But without significant design changes, an aircraft like Hürjet simply has no chance against enemy aircraft as a naval platform. It is extremely underpowered as a naval fighter and can carry hardly any weapons.

To be competitive, the aircraft would need to be fueled to at least three-quarters of its capacity, with an air-to-air configuration of 6-8 AAMs, and have a thrust-to-weight ratio of at least 0.90-1.10 in this configuration to even compete with other naval aircraft.
Only one F-404 Engine in this aircraft is not capable of this.

Either you install two F-404 engines, which would then be a completely new fighter jet, or you might have had to install an F-110 from the outset and then replace it with a TF-35000 later.

 

[begturan]

No one is saying that the aircraft is completely wrong, only that it should have been developed as a third priority rather than a first priority ahead of the TAI KAAN.

Turkey needs as many fighter jets as possible, and Hürjet in its current form, even in its military version, is useless; it cannot fulfill this task. This is not a big deal, as it is a training/light combat aircraft for patrol and CAS missions, and KAAN will take on this role as a multi-purpose air superiority fighter alongside the F-16 Özgür II.
But without significant design changes, an aircraft like Hürjet simply has no chance against enemy aircraft as a naval platform. It is extremely underpowered as a naval fighter and can carry hardly any weapons.

To be competitive, the aircraft would need to be fueled to at least three-quarters of its capacity, with an air-to-air configuration of 6-8 AAMs, and have a thrust-to-weight ratio of at least 0.90-1.10 in this configuration to even compete with other naval aircraft.
Only one F-404 Engine in this aircraft is not capable of this.

Either you install two F-404 engines, which would then be a completely new fighter jet, or you might have had to install an F-110 from the outset and then replace it with a TF-35000 later.

I'm really curious about this: if a fighter jet has a long-range AESA radar, a low RCS value on the radar, and carries a long-range air-to-air missile, what difference does it make whether it's a Hürjet or an F-18?

If our goal is to achieve air dominance, why can't the Hürjet do this?