TR Aircraft Carrier and Amphibious Ship Programs

[Kartal1]

We need more ships in Bayraktar/Sancaktar class. These can easily carry swarms of ULAQ class drone-boats of different configurations. These ships can also accommodate artillery rockets like the TRG230-300 with which they can hit land positions from almost a stand off distance. They can also carry Atmaca and Gezgin missiles.

Such concept would be very good in my opinion. A large mothership vessel with extended land attack precision strike capability which can take the role of fire support for an amphibious operations with a dedicated unmanned close protection boats.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356169535456477184

 

[Oublious]

 

[Test7]

do we know the ship in the dock at the background?

TCG Bayraktar LST

Naval Programs

I don't know, it will be more beneficial to send your question to DARPA. DIRCM is still a raw technology for these days. Barreled and missile systems will be developed and used for a longer period of time. US has already developed guided shells similar to Dardo, Dircm will be installed on ships...

defencehub.live

 

[Test7]

 

[Hexciter]

İsmail DEMİR:

"We have a TB2 project that will transform the TCG ANADOLU into an AUAV Ship"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367046115422580736

 

[Yasar_TR]

İsmail DEMİR:

"We have a TB2 project that will transform the TCG ANADOLU into an AUAV Ship"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367046115422580736

TB2 is the right choice of UAV currently in use. All the others have too wide a wing measurement to accommodate problem free take-off and landing.
Once the structural strengthening of the landing gear and body has been done it just leaves a purpose built arresting hook to be installed. Standard hydraulic arresting hooks used for planes won’t do. They would break and/or damage the UAV. Either an electromagnetic arresting hook or a purpose built hydraulic hook will have to be installed. By using a surface fitted take-off brake, the UAV should have enough speed to take off with the help of the ski lift without the need of catapults.
But in the years to come if the ship is also to employ MIUS type ~5ton jet UAV’s , then an electromagnetic arresting hook is the way to go.

 

[Saithan]

TB2 is the right choice of UAV currently in use. All the others have too wide a wing measurement to accommodate problem free take-off and landing.
Once the structural strengthening of the landing gear and body has been done it just leaves a purpose built arresting hook to be installed. Standard hydraulic arresting hooks used for planes won’t do. They would break and/or damage the UAV. Either an electromagnetic arresting hook or a purpose built hydraulic hook will have to be installed. By using a surface fitted take-off brake, the UAV should have enough speed to take off with the help of the ski lift without the need of catapults.
But in the years to come if the ship is also to employ MIUS type ~5ton jet UAV’s , then an electromagnetic arresting hook is the way to go.

I would have hoped that he said "TCG Anadolu would be capable of operating with UAV as well". Structural changes would necessary, and I'm sure @anmdt can tell us that it'd be a bad idea to make those changes if it affects the overall performance of the vessel.

 

[Turko]

I won't be relieved unless SİPER is adopted onto TCG ANADOLU, that's the only way they could compromise lack of F35s.

 

[Anmdt]

TB2 is the right choice of UAV currently in use. All the others have too wide a wing measurement to accommodate problem free take-off and landing.
Once the structural strengthening of the landing gear and body has been done it just leaves a purpose built arresting hook to be installed. Standard hydraulic arresting hooks used for planes won’t do. They would break and/or damage the UAV. Either an electromagnetic arresting hook or a purpose built hydraulic hook will have to be installed. By using a surface fitted take-off brake, the UAV should have enough speed to take off with the help of the ski lift without the need of catapults.
But in the years to come if the ship is also to employ MIUS type ~5ton jet UAV’s , then an electromagnetic arresting hook is the way to go.

The deck can easily handle landing of an UAV up to 2 tonnes (or even more,but not up to 5). The matter is how it will be landing (placing arresting gears) and how it will be taking off (assisted or separated)
It is not effective as before because while landing or take off the deck will need to be cleared out, ie. no other operations will be allowed. While in STOVL, the vertical landing spot will be occupied during landing and will allow for a simultaneous take off of another aircraft (fixed or rotating)
Also UAV will need to be modified with foldable wings for effective storage, and stronger airframe to withstand assisted launching or landing.
So it is more a matter on UAV part, the ship is technically ready except i still don't know how they are going to place an EMALS or landing arrests (simply is not feasible), thus only way to go is development of a STOVL UAV, and it is again on part of UAV makers.
I don't think DzKK (Turkish Navy) will be willing to touch at deck integrity so i don't really expect them to cut it up and place arresting systems and launching systems. while also would occupy below-deck hangar's effective place. DzKK is not willing to make permanent modifications on TCG Anadolu.

 

[Anmdt]

If DzKK is not prepared to cut up the runway, then the whole project is a non-starter. I can’t see how they intend to land a UAV on such a short runway?

They will (probably) do additions which can be removed later, and i am sure our guys will find solutions to insert those without damaging the coating, or damaging in the limited areas to not affect future possibilities. There are several openings on board sides which can possibly used to install wires and hydraulics.

DzKK plans another ship to specifically focus on AC operations. When it is commissioned Anadolu will return to pure LHD or LHD with STOVL (UAV more likely) to aid in amphibious operations. The second ship likely will have launch and arrest systems mounted since the beginning. And a secondary runway to take off.

So a hydraulic system that can handle light weight planes will have to be designed.

Entire project could be about this actually. A lighter arresting system which can be mounted on deck and occupy less area compared to a large one. since this particularly will be catching small tactical drones. from simple assumption of kinetic energy, a lighter drone-like system would have slower landing speed and lighter mass and probably exert 1/50th (estimating) of the force to be exerted by a fighter.
Also installing a fully fledged arresting system could render stern elevator useless. Moreover the stepped platform on stern and also the elevator (since i don't assume it will be good if an airplane touches down at the elevator while landing) can make landing slightly harder too. Typical aircraft carriers have a smoother runway extending upto the stern.

Also frequency of aircraft operation will probably shrink down:
In proposed solution:
An aircraft touches down and possibly stops around the island, towed to the elevator on fore side, meanwhile another aircraft will be taken out from hangar just after another has touched(for safety it will be kept in hangar just in case), placed on elevator, taken up, and took off.

However in STOVL:
An aircraft is prepped on runway while another takes its landing position on its location, simultaneously one takes off, possibly another follows without waiting the landing of the earlier one.
Also landing spot is off the run way, so the airplane can easily wait for take off to be completed to be towed in hangar.

So proposed solution is only better than nothing, to save the day, if there isn't any further solutions to make TB2 a STOVL.

A picture clearly shows what i mean about the stern elevator.

 

[Hexciter]

Options for STOVL/VTOL AUAVs:

 

[Turko]

Options for STOVL/VTOL AUAVs:
View attachment 15274 View attachment 15275 View attachment 15276 View attachment 15277

Gyrocopters also would be an alternative as they require app 50 meters for take off. For landing gyrocopters need almost zero meters.
However I don't know about their limitations against bad weather conditions.

 

[dustdevil]

Gyrocopters, VTOL aircraft, ballistic parachutes, seaplanes, floatplanes, helicopter based UAVs, all should be considered. Maybe we should not obsess with deck based UAVs only.

 

[Glass🚬]

They should produce uav´s like this

 

[Turko]

Oh Sorry. Dr. Taştan from the USA proposed the design of Convair Model 48 ( Bronco OV10) with STOL capabilities as UAV for LHD Anadolu.

Bronco could take off without a catapult from LHA and could land without arresting gear onto LHA, interesting.

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can Hisar-RF quad-packed?

Hisar RF is not like ESSM. It has a dual pulse solid fuel motor. It will be fired from indigenous VLS system MDAS quad packed canisters.
On the other hand, G40 missile is similar in physical form to ESSM. With a booster it “may” be good enough to be a Siper missile.
Both G40 and Hisar missiles in the navy can be quad packed.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir head of the ministry of defense talked about TCG ANADOLU LHD (Juan Carlos L400)

> The Cost for one Ship is approx. 35% less than what Egypt paid for French MISTRAL LHD. Egypt bought 2 LHDs for 1.062 Billion US.
1 LHD Costs 531 Million USD - 35% = 345 Million USD

=> TCG ANADOLU LHD Cost 345 Million USD to built which seems to be quite affordable.

Around 51 Min

View attachment 16705

for Comparison:

Australia Canberra Class (based on Juan Carlos l400) Costed them 1.55 Billion each. all the way back in 2007 (Inflation isn't taken in account)

View attachment 16706

Do you really believe that TCG Anadolu cost only 345 million dollars?
In a previous speech that I personally listened to, twice to be sure, Mr Ismail Demir said the cost of this ship , let us say, is normally over 1 billion Euros. But we managed to produce it for 35%less. In other words for 650millionEUROS. Of course that does not include the helicopters and crafts that this ship is going to be home to.
And Mr İbrahim Sunnetci in his article on this LHD, puts the estimate cost at around 1.25billion Euros.

TCG Anadolu LHD: A Naval Platform that will Multiply the Power Projection Capability of Turkish Navy!

By İbrahim SÜNNETÇİ - SSB Prof. İsmail DEMİR: “ It will be delivered in the last quarter of 2020”

www.defenceturkey.com

I have listened to this speech here as well; he said almost exactly the same: “an African country, 1 ship they bought from a European producer. We managed to produce it at a cost of 35% less.” No figures mentioned!
please don’t give false information!

 

[Nutuk]

İsmail Demir has referred it as a STOVL variant of Hürjet (however i don't know how they are going to make it, and whether it is feasible considering the amount it will be procured)
So STOVL is already what TCG Anadolu is designed for. Don't expect it to cover duties of a fully fledged aircraft carrier.
Weapons can be loaded in hangar, moreover STOVL aircrafts can vertically land on dedicated landing spot without interrupting the runways.
Also multiple aircraft can land at once at different spots.
Anything else than STOVL doesn't make sense and they know it as well, either can be used in urgency or for rather small UAVs to gain some strike capability and amphibious operation support.

Not STOVL but STOL

Hurjet cannot do vertical landing