TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Turko]

Didn't they already modernize 2A4s? I cant understand, if they were all modernized , why ALTAYs turret?
Edit: i didn't like the idea, replacing original german gun and turret.
İ wish they modified the tank with broken turret.
Let made in germany turret remain.

 

[Brave Janissary]

About Last L-44 Carrier Prototype In Karasu

Altay'ın Motor ve Topunu Yerli Üretmek Zor Mu ? Son Çıkan L-44 Toplu Prototip Neyin Nesidir ?

Defenceturk.com'daki iletimden : Şimdi değerli arkadaşlar bence başlıktaki siyaset ağırlıklı iletiler silinmeli burası askeri bir forumdu...

gerceksavunmasanayi.blogspot.com

 

[Anmdt]

About Last L-44 Carrier Prototype In Karasu

Altay'ın Motor ve Topunu Yerli Üretmek Zor Mu ? Son Çıkan L-44 Toplu Prototip Neyin Nesidir ?

Defenceturk.com'daki iletimden : Şimdi değerli arkadaşlar bence başlıktaki siyaset ağırlıklı iletiler silinmeli burası askeri bir forumdu...

gerceksavunmasanayi.blogspot.com

And how about effective range ?

 

[Turko]

And how about effective range ?

Bro, replacing made in germany L44 with MKE 55 is crazy.

 

[adenl]

The wheel caps on this upgrade are the same wheel caps as on the Leopard 2. It is another confirmation that the hull is at least a Leopard 2 hull and not an Altay hull.

 

[Yasar_TR]

About Last L-44 Carrier Prototype In Karasu

Altay'ın Motor ve Topunu Yerli Üretmek Zor Mu ? Son Çıkan L-44 Toplu Prototip Neyin Nesidir ?

Defenceturk.com'daki iletimden : Şimdi değerli arkadaşlar bence başlıktaki siyaset ağırlıklı iletiler silinmeli burası askeri bir forumdu...

gerceksavunmasanayi.blogspot.com

According to this article, the Greek leo2a6 (hel) tanks are impossible to penetrate with frontal attack with the best sabot rounds around. That only leaves back, sides and most importantly the weakest top penetration and/or ATGM penetration.
Roketsan’s Tanok has top penetration mode. So could it be effective against the Greek 2a6’s? How about our Umtas or Omtas? It is claimed that there is not a tank armour that Umtas can not penetrate! Also there is MAM-L ; which is an Umtas without the rocket section. Mam-L usually attacks from top anyway as seen in TB2 attacks.
This article also claims that there is no L44 gun production in Turkey. But there is L55 production available under license by MKEK. This seems to be the case. But technically it is more difficult to produce L55. So if push comes to shove MKEK should easily produce L44 too.
Approximately 350 Leo2a4’s we have should ALL be modernised as soon as possible. Once modernised they will be a very strong force multiplier. Because the modernisations will be done according to the experiences we have endured in northern Syria the survivability of the tanks will have been greatly improved.

 

[Turko]

We all want Leo 2 a4s are to be modernized but What does the modernization mean? You mean the Leo's must have L55 gun in order to penetrate Greek tanks? Or technological upgrades such as ERA and some optical sensors will be enough?

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334106426533416963

MSB HULUSİ AKAR: It is not a "tank and pallet", but a "Tank Pallet Factory". Tanks are not made there, tank palettes are made. Now, we are trying to make tanks with the initiatives our President personally made. The ownership of the factory in Arifiye belongs to the Ministry.

 

[Yasar_TR]

We all want Leo 2 a4s are to be modernized but What does the modernization mean? You mean the Leo's must have L55 gun in order to penetrate Greek tanks? Or technological upgrades such as ERA and some optical sensors will be enough?

If you investigate what is being done to the current leo2a4’s you will find that it is an extensive work that will make the tank survive today’s battlefield conditions.
Just to name a few; ERA (explosive reactive armour) panels are being fitted to the tank against atgm attacks. It’s main armour is being upgraded so that sabot rounds do not penetrate easily. Either Pulat or Akkor to be fitted to stop RPG or ATGM before hitting the tank. Back of the tank is fitted with cage armour to stop RPG attacks. Laser Early warning systems are fitted. New fire control system is incorporated. SARP UKSS auto machine gun to be fitted (although it is not shown in picture it’s space is there). Additional power supply and air conditioning system is also included.

 

[Turko]

If you investigate what is being done to the current leo2a4’s you will find that it is an extensive work that will make the tank survive today’s battlefield conditions.
Just to name a few; ERA (explosive reactive armour) panels are being fitted to the tank against atgm attacks. It’s main armour is being upgraded so that sabot rounds do not penetrate easily. Either Pulat or Akkor to be fitted to stop RPG or ATGM before hitting the tank. Back of the tank is fitted with cage armour to stop RPG attacks. Laser Early warning systems are fitted. New fire control system is incorporated. SARP UKSS auto machine gun to be fitted (although it is not shown in picture it’s space is there). Additional power supply and air conditioning system is also included.
View attachment 7681

You Well explained. Very neat modernization. I'd go with it.

 

[adenl]

If you investigate what is being done to the current leo2a4’s you will find that it is an extensive work that will make the tank survive today’s battlefield conditions.
Just to name a few; ERA (explosive reactive armour) panels are being fitted to the tank against atgm attacks. It’s main armour is being upgraded so that sabot rounds do not penetrate easily. Either Pulat or Akkor to be fitted to stop RPG or ATGM before hitting the tank. Back of the tank is fitted with cage armour to stop RPG attacks. Laser Early warning systems are fitted. New fire control system is incorporated. SARP UKSS auto machine gun to be fitted (although it is not shown in picture it’s space is there). Additional power supply and air conditioning system is also included.
View attachment 7681

A lot of what you describe has basically been done with the Leopard 2NG concept by Aselsan. The only things that need to be added to it is an APS and APU.

Leopard 2 Next Generation Images

 

[Yasar_TR]

A lot of what you describe has basically been done with the Leopard 2NG concept by Aselsan. The only things that need to be added to it is an APS and APU.

Leopard 2 Next Generation Images

That modernisation was done by Aselsan. Who do you think is doing this modernisation now? BMC cocked up. So Aselsan is doing the current modernisation too.

 

[adenl]

That modernisation was done by Aselsan. Who do you think is doing this modernisation now? BMC cocked up. So Aselsan is doing the current modernisation too.

Yeah, but BMC is using Aselsan stuff, like the optics, FCS, APS and RCWS.

 

[500]

We all want Leo 2 a4s are to be modernized but What does the modernization mean? You mean the Leo's must have L55 gun in order to penetrate Greek tanks? Or technological upgrades such as ERA and some optical sensors will be enough?

Here the most needed upgrades:

1) Improved sideskirts and ERA on turret sides. Cheap and effective upgrade.
2) BMS. Very important in modern battlefield to get information from UAVs avoid friendly fire etc.
3) HE-MP rounds similar to German DM-11 and Israeli M339. Important in modern asymmetric and urban warfare.
4) APS. Greatly increases survival.

I dont think L55 gun needed at all.

 

[Turko]

About L55 gun , length is not important, function is important.
US m829 a1 depleted uranium sabot can waste any armour.

What are the DU Shells?
DU shells are called armor-piercing firebombs, because they not only
break through a steel armor but also burn up intensely. As armor-piercing
rounds, they would punch out the bulky iron plate of tanks, invade their
interior, and bounce around inside killing the combat crew, destroying
tank facilities and burn them out. They would hit the target with their
enormous momentum and pierce a hole with their kinetic energy..
Compared to steel bullets of the same size, which have less density than
DU rounds, the latter can make a hole in the target 2.4 times deeper than
the former. And, while steel bullets must have the length of 30 cm, DU
bullets only have to be 12 cm to suite their purpose. Further, when fired,
although DU shells receive the same air resistance as steel ones, they
have less reduction of speed because they are 2.4 times heavier, which
gives them longer range and bigger velocity in impacting the target.


Should we buy Ukranian nuclear waste from nuclear plants?

 

[Huelague]

According to this article, the Greek leo2a6 (hel) tanks are impossible to penetrate with frontal attack with the best sabot rounds around. That only leaves back, sides and most importantly the weakest top penetration and/or ATGM penetration.
Roketsan’s Tanok has top penetration mode. So could it be effective against the Greek 2a6’s? How about our Umtas or Omtas? It is claimed that there is not a tank armour that Umtas can not penetrate! Also there is MAM-L ; which is an Umtas without the rocket section. Mam-L usually attacks from top anyway as seen in TB2 attacks.
This article also claims that there is no L44 gun production in Turkey. But there is L55 production available under license by MKEK. This seems to be the case. But technically it is more difficult to produce L55. So if push comes to shove MKEK should easily produce L44 too.
Approximately 350 Leo2a4’s we have should ALL be modernised as soon as possible. Once modernised they will be a very strong force multiplier. Because the modernisations will be done according to the experiences we have endured in northern Syria the survivability of the tanks will have been greatly improved.

Will it has AKKOR or Pulat? Why we are not addIng Shtora-1 like Soft kill systems?

 

[Bogeyman]

About L55 gun , length is not important, function is important.
US m829 a1 depleted uranium sabot can waste any armour.
View attachment 7710

View attachment 7711

What are the DU Shells?
DU shells are called armor-piercing firebombs, because they not only
break through a steel armor but also burn up intensely. As armor-piercing
rounds, they would punch out the bulky iron plate of tanks, invade their
interior, and bounce around inside killing the combat crew, destroying
tank facilities and burn them out. They would hit the target with their
enormous momentum and pierce a hole with their kinetic energy..
Compared to steel bullets of the same size, which have less density than
DU rounds, the latter can make a hole in the target 2.4 times deeper than
the former. And, while steel bullets must have the length of 30 cm, DU
bullets only have to be 12 cm to suite their purpose. Further, when fired,
although DU shells receive the same air resistance as steel ones, they
have less reduction of speed because they are 2.4 times heavier, which
gives them longer range and bigger velocity in impacting the target.

View attachment 7713
Should we buy Ukranian nuclear waste from nuclear plants?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196436782583296000

Using diluted uranium is a war crime. When civilians or soldiers in a war zone come into contact with diluted uranium, they get cancer. Their children are born disabled. I did not post it on the forum as the pictures are +18.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Will it has AKKOR or Pulat? Why we are not addIng Shtora-1 like Soft kill systems?

Most likely it will have Pulat. Last I checked Akkor was still not ready. Akkor is more advanced and my choice too. But lets see!!!

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196436782583296000

Using diluted uranium is a war crime. When civilians or soldiers in a war zone come into contact with diluted uranium, they get cancer. Their children are born disabled. I did not post it on the forum as the pictures are +18.

DEPLETED Uranium is extensively used by US forces.
It is the Uranium that has lost most of it’s “fissile isotope U235” . Non fissile element U238 is what it mostly has. But still contains 0.3% of the fissile 235 which is dangerous to humans. With a density of 19.1g/cm3 It is almost as dense as Gold at 19.3g/cm3 .
Apart from being Very dense (heavy) the depleted uranium has a very different property; when it hits a hard surface like an armoured tank, its head sharpens and burns and sharpens further. This increases it’s penetration power.
As well as penetration anti tank rounds, depleted uranium is used in armour plating as well.
There is much controversy about its use in all military areas.

 

[Bogeyman]

DEPLETED Uranium is extensively used by US forces.
It is the Uranium that has lost most of it’s “fissile isotope U235” . Non fissile element U238 is what it mostly has. But still contains 0.3% of the fissile 235 which is dangerous to humans. With a density of 19.1g/cm3 It is almost as dense as Gold at 19.3g/cm3 .
Apart from being Very dense (heavy) the depleted uranium has a very different property; when it hits a hard surface like an armoured tank, its head sharpens and burns and sharpens further. This increases it’s penetration power.
As well as penetration anti tank rounds, depleted uranium is used in armour plating as well.
There is much controversy about its use in all military areas.

A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft are also used.