TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Turko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332364678874460161

The era of Unmanned Armored Combat Vehicle begins in TAF.
- There are nearly 10 thousand armored vehicles in the TSK and close to 40 thousand M113 class armored vehicles in the world. An annual tender is $ 2.1 billion.
- Serial production phase started.
- TSK aims to break the impact of the power group embargo with this project

Do Türkish Army have 10.000 M113 ??? LoL

 

[Reviewbrah]

Militaries are accounting developments of battery technology for future planning. There is promising tech like lithium sulfur batteries that could change armored vehicle operations and also completely change wars

 

[Brave Janissary]

Maybe we are sad about Altay's latency but that tanks with mod nothing bad when compared leclerc, ariete, challenger 2 . But ofcourse we must add a armour mod rcws +lwrs + 360 degree yamgöz + dvs+ spall linear. (I thik they are's can be just because even we intagrated hims to cheap m-60a3 mod).

Why I prefer him all tank without leopard 2a6+ , m1a2 ?

Thats a stock leopard 2a4 armour map . Nothing bad 800 mm turret front very good.

And also we intagrated him a era + composite armour package and his thickness are very high. I'm waiting he would be same level with leopard 2a6.

Thats Leclerc Armour

And that's Challenger 2
---------

And also Leopard 2a4 cannons with dm53/63 apfsds very successfull cannon he's almost best after the l55 with dm 53. Also superrior to french and english gun.

And we achieved this mod losing without any bigger speed lose.

İf we modernize all of our 330-340 leopard 2a4's with 160 around sabra we can have more modern tank than italy, frenchs and britain.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331907225649078272

South Korea Used Again for Renk HSWL 295TM Transmission for 3rd Package K2 AMT

South Korea's national transmission solution seems unable to meet the requirements.

 

[Ryder]

Turkey and SK need to cooperate for the engine and transmission.

Altay got fcked over thanks to the Germans and us Turks being too naive our allies wont cut or embargo us and they did no matter how much you try to appease them.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331907225649078272

South Korea Used Again for Renk HSWL 295TM Transmission for 3rd Package K2 AMT

South Korea's national transmission solution seems unable to meet the requirements.

It IS a heavy tank. When suddenly a lot of torque is needed the transmission is put under a lot of strain. Meterials Engineering used in gearing has to be very precise and is very important. Germans excel in this area. Just look at the auto boxes they use in Mercedes and especially in Audi cars. No one can come near them in finesse and precision.
I still think the transmissionless hybrid route is the way forward. I think TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) have realised this as well. Hence the M113 Hybrid engine upgrade program.

 

[Combat-Master]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333038664650272768

 

[adenl]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333038664650272768

Please provide translation or summary

 

[Turko]

It IS a heavy tank. When suddenly a lot of torque is needed the transmission is put under a lot of strain. Meterials Engineering used in gearing has to be very precise and is very important. Germans excel in this area. Just look at the auto boxes they use in Mercedes and especially in Audi cars. No one can come near them in finesse and precision.
I still think the transmissionless hybrid route is the way forward. I think TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) have realised this as well. Hence the M113 Hybrid engine upgrade program.

Sorry to mislead the topic. German autotransmissions are terrible They can't compete with Japan's. İ had an experience with Opel Vectra. İ've seen many mercedes and opel's with broken auto transmissions.

 

[Kartal1]

Please provide translation or summary

In short the serial production is at halt because of the German side not exporting the engines. He says that if somebody wants to put embargoes on Turkey the Turkish side is not saddened by the move but on opposite it is motivating Turkey even more to produce it's own engines.

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333038664650272768

Imo referrring to the Rheinmetall JV of BMC?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Sorry to mislead the topic. German autotransmissions are terrible They can't compete with Japan's. İ had an experience with Opel Vectra. İ've seen many mercedes and opel's with broken auto transmissions.

That may have been your personal experience.
I look at it from an engineer‘s point of view. 7 speed and 9 speed autoboxes of Mercedes cars are probably the finest in their class. (So it should be as their formula 1 cars give them enough tech input). Also Auidi’s auto box with double clutch mechanism is revolutionary. I am afraid Japanese cars can only copy these and probably may make them very reliable as well. But at the end of the day as innovation goes German cars ; Mercedes, BMW and Audi/WV/Porsche are in a league on their own.
Most revolutionary innovations that have come out in auto engineering, have been applied to an S class Mercedes first.
I have personally owned top end Hondas and Toyotas and driven Lexus. They are the most reliable cars I have driven. But I wouldn’t change my S class and E classes I had to any of them, even though they have given me enough grief. They have so much finesse it is a revelation.
(Opel Vectra is US tech by the way ; General Motors is the mother company)
Just check out the way MTU Diesel engines are put together. You will see the difference. They are so compact and so small in volume for the amount of power they deliver.

 

[Timur]

Sorry to mislead the topic. German autotransmissions are terrible They can't compete with Japan's. İ had an experience with Opel Vectra. İ've seen many mercedes and opel's with broken auto transmissions.

opel the worst o worse and than you said a multiplier Vectra.. and if you would have added common-rail diesel only one word would discripe it: RIP Money

there is too much hype in german cars some are not worse their money because of the costs..

but there is one thing some cars lack wich germans brands like BMW can shine like a star in the darkness..

if I see some fiats or renault or others in their interior design I could womit.. also old volvos what did the designer think to do such a thing? that also counts for mercedes.. only vw and bmw and audi have some normal designs.. besides bmw most german cars are too expensive.. for excample an VW its not worth what you have to pay for internal design feels cheap and since audi belongs to VW every Audi reminds me of a little better VW

I have driven an Audi A8 really that thing looked like some VW car but you feel that they have chosen quality materials every button every surface was not cheap.. my volvo feels like a cheap car if you first drive Audi A8 and than sit on that Volvo.. its the same like using my volvo and than sitting in a VW Passat.. and for what you have to pay for a passat its not worse it they should do it better..


personally I dislike Mercedes but its sure they they build high quality cars (even if old ones body are rusty) 500.000 kms are nothing for them

but for us we should not hesititate to buy korean one even if it has 25 less life cycle..

 

[Turko]

Guys let's turn the topic
What do you think about gas-turbine engine like Abrams' for Altay?
AFAIK Turkey has already developed 2000hp turbo-shaft for helicopter?
Would it be realistic?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Guys let's turn the topic
What do you think about gas-turbine engine like Abrams' for Altay?
AFAIK Turkey has already developed 2000hp turbo-shaft for helicopter?
Would it be realistic?

Yes you are right the T700-TEI-701D engine develops 2000hp. But these engines are being produced under licence for the Blackhawk helicopters Tusas/Tai has a contract for 109 platforms. Can TEI produce extra engines without GE approval for another platform?
The other point is the US Abrams uses a 1500hp Honeywell AGT 1500 gas turbine engine. The 2000hp is an overkill.
There would also be two other major downsides ; first one the very high fuel consumption . Second one is the very hot air this engine would create at the back of the tank. This would prevent infantry to use the tank as a barrier against incoming enemy fire.
If the last two downsides can be tolerated, then I would go for the TS1400 engine . This is a ~1600hp indigenous engine which should be more in line with the power requirements.

 

[Turko]

Yes you are right the T700-TEI-701D engine develops 2000hp. But these engines are being produced under licence for the Blackhawk helicopters Tusas/Tai has a contract for 109 platforms. Can TEI produce extra engines without GE approval for another platform?
The other point is the US Abrams uses a 1500hp Honeywell AGT 1500 gas turbine engine. The 2000hp is an overkill.
There would also be two other major downsides ; first one the very high fuel consumption . Second one is the very hot air this engine would create at the back of the tank. This would prevent infantry to use the tank as a barrier against incoming enemy fire.
If the last two downsides can be tolerated, then I would go for the TS1400 engine . This is a ~1600hp indigenous engine which should be more in line with the power requirements.

I haven't thought about hot exhaust. İnteresting fact.

 

[Yasar_TR]

We better consider this. US is using turbine engines. Some modifications will be required i guess. Would it be more complex to develop a transmission for that?

Also we should do away with the habit of using tanks as barriers for infantry if we will use active protection systems on them, since it is dangerous too. You cant always switch on/off. You cant know when you will be attacked.

An active protection such as Aselsan’s Akkor would not pose danger to infantry as it would destroy incoming rocket/missile at a fair distance from the tank. But a system like Pulat, which is developed by Aselsan from Ukraine’s Zaslon system would be dangerous to close by infantry As it explodes quite close to the tank.

About the transmission for the tank; Any transmission that has to handle 4500+ NM and 1500HP would be subjected to a lot of stress. Especially when it has to do this very quickly on demand. Abrams uses Allison transmission. So ideally this would be the logical choice. But given US-Turkey relations I would be inclined to use UK‘s David Brown transmission which also makes Callenger2 tank transmission and has been given a contract by RR and Northrop to build a transmission for a gas turbine marine engine. Of course David Brown could build a transmission that would match up with Korean tank engine too.

Maritime Journal | David Brown Gears Up for Gas Turbine Transmission

www.maritimejournal.com

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333479762510098436

 

[Reviewbrah]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333483389958156288

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333486602782445571

L55 replaced with L44

Looks to be modular armor

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333483389958156288

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333486602782445571

L55 replaced with L44

Looks to be modular armor

That ruined my day, if true.

Longer canon more range, significant more shell velocity which means more penetration, and that's what you want.