Reviewbrah
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We discussed this so many times
TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs
- Thread starter Ghost soldier
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T
APS is dangerous around tank for own infantries. They must have calculated their needs.
The most important is completed: they have achieved producing APS.
I have another question why just tanks? Why don't they use on some STA and ZMA , APC etc.
Tornadoss
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Yes but, it can be switch on/off. If infantry close switch off. 40 is really little number. I think APS must be readily available on all tanks and armored vehicles as you said.
E
Bokdil's articles are propaganda and anyone who gives them credibility is a fool.Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program
Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program
A source with knowledge of Turkey's Altay program has told Defense News that the country is negotiating with a South Korean firm in an attempt to recover the struggling project.www.defensenews.com
Before someone starts complaining about the author, it sounds reasonable and at the same time is hopefully the end of a big fucking mess. But still we will only end up with engines and transmissions that Korea decided were inferior compared to MAN and RENK.
Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program
View attachment 6830
An early version of Turkey's Altay tank participates in a military parade in Ankara, Turkey, on Aug. 30, 2015. (Burhan Ozbilici/AP)
ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish procurement and military officials as well as teams from a private manufacturer have been negotiating with a South Korean company to recover a program riddled with delays for the production of the country’s first indigenous new-generation main battle tank.
“This program has faced major delays due to failed access to significant components like the engine, transmission and armor,” a procurement official told Defense News. “I am not in a position to give a date for the start of serial production. All I know is we are trying hard to get it moved ahead.”
In 2019, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s office included the Altay tank as part of the military’s 2020 inventory in a government document. In an October 2019 speech, Ethem Sancak — a senior shareholder in BMC, which makes the Altay — said the tank would be fielded within 24 months.
It now appears that prediction was too optimistic. The presidential office’s 2021 investment program, released earlier this month, does not even mention the Altay, let alone the tank entering service.
According to a source with knowledge of the Altay program, BMC has been in talks with Hyundai Rotem to solve problems surrounding missing foreign technology for the Altay, which Turkish officials often portray as a fully national, indigenous Turkish tank. The South Korean company previously built public transportation and Bosporus crossing systems in Istanbul, Ankara and Adana as well as light rail systems in Istanbul and Izmir.
“We are hoping our talks will eventually sort out the problems regarding the power pack — [the engine and transmission — that] we will use in the serial production cycle,” the source told Defense News. “We are probably talking about another couple of months of talks before we know which way we are headed.”
He added that BMC is in indirect talks, through Hyundai Rotem, with two South Korean defense technology concerns: engine-maker Doosan and S&T Dynamics, which produces automatic transmissions.
“Ideally a Doosan-S&T power pack will power the Altay if we can iron out differences and licensing issues,” he said.
South Korea has experienced similar problems with its program for the mass production of the K2 Black Panther tank. Its deployment by the Army faced delays due to problems concerning the engine and transmission.
View attachment 6831
A South Korean K2 tank fires during a live-fire demonstration Sept. 11, 2018. (Jung Yeon-Je/AFP via Getty Images)
The first 100 units were built with a Doosan 1,500-horsepower engine and an S&T Dynamics automatic transmission. Under a second contract, tanks began to be delivered in late 2016. But after S&T Dynamics' transmission failed durability tests, South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration announced the second batch would have a “hybrid” power pack consisting of the locally developed engine and the German RENK transmission system.
“How the Turks can make use of a proven engine and a failed transmission remains to be seen,” said a London-based Turkey expert, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Turkey had hoped to power the Altay with the German MTU engine and RENK transmission, but talks with German manufacturers over the past couple of years failed due to a federal arms embargo on Turkey. Germany is one of a number of European governments that have limited exports to Turkey over its involvement in the Syrian civil war.
A similar problem concerns the Altay’s planned armor. Turkey was hoping a French armor solution would be continue to be available following an initial batch of 40 units. But recent political tension between the two countries over hydrocarbon explorations off Cyprus has put this in jeopardy.
The source with knowledge of the Altay program said the armor will now be locally produced under a public-private partnership.
The Altay program dates back to the mid-1990s, but it wasn’t until November 2018 that the Turkish government awarded the tank’s multibillion-dollar contract to BMC. In a competition, the firm defeated Otokar, which had already produced four Altay prototypes under a government contract.
The contract involves the production of an initial batch of 250 units, life-cycle logistical support, and the establishment by the contractor of a tank systems technology center and its operation. As part of the contract, BMC will design, develop and produce a tank with an unmanned fire control unit.
The contract said the first Altay tank is to roll off the assembly line within 18 months. Opposition parties in parliament have slammed the government over delays, but procurement officials claim the 18-month clause will apply after the first unit’s production begins.
The Altay program is broken into two phases: T1 and T2. T1 covers the first 250 units, and T2 involves the advanced version of the tank. Turkey also plans to eventually produce 1,000 Altays, to be followed by an unmanned version.
The deal has proved politically controversy, particularly after the Erdogan administration leased for free a military-owned tank and turret factory by the Marmara Sea to BMC for a period of 25 years.
The move prompted cries of nepotism, as BMC shareholder Sancak was a senior member of Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party at the time.
Ozgur Eksi, an independent defense analyst, questioned the choice of assigning a factory by the sea for tank production. “In the event of war, the Altay factory could be an easy target for the enemy fire,” he said. “This program could have been much better planned from a strategic point of view.”
Nevertheless, Eksi added, “there is a political determination to get the Altays into the Army’s inventory. Sooner or later, production will start.”
The era of Unmanned Armored Combat Vehicle begins in TAF.
- There are nearly 10 thousand armored vehicles in the TSK and close to 40 thousand M113 class armored vehicles in the world. An annual tender is $ 2.1 billion.
- Serial production phase started.
- TSK aims to break the impact of the power group embargo with this project
It is said that the TSK can modernize the tanks in its possession with the hybrid power group.
A
I can seem to play the video. Are there any pictures of the system?
Reviewbrah
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Son Dakika! TSK'da büyük dönüşüm | Video - Son Dakika Haberleri Bugün | Video
Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Türkiye zırhlı araçlarını hem güçlendiriyor hem de geliştiriyor. TSK envanterindeki zırhlı araçlar da modernize kapsamı...
www.cnnturk.com
Here it is
S
I don't believe in this stuff. First of all electrical engine in armoured vehicles is not sensible. Can you imagine the needed battery to be sufficient to a 10-15 ton, tracked vehicle?
Secondly, project is in MKEK's hands.....
Just a project as of now.
Zafer
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My statement is a forward looking statement seeing into the future. We are at the beginning of a transition from fully combustion to hybrid of electric and combustion powertrains. Coincidentally I am working on a private civilian aviation project in which the only solution to the problem is a hybrid.
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MKEK has remarkably changed and still changing, at least as of i know their management was refreshed and converted into a more efficient institute (at least, not bad as before)
And the project is again hyped by someone, probably it has other meanings in TSK, considering how hardly they have accepted even the project they have guided, Altay, they wouldn't just pick M113 E-ZMA because they are instructed to do so.
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There is so much public pressure about the Altay tank that to take the pressure off they will probably be producing a number of tanks - possibly less than a dozen or so in the months to come - with the spare MTU engines they have for the leo2a4‘s. Also refurbish and upgrade the 5 prototypes Otokar built.
This will give them enough public propaganda material and take off the heat.
They are hoping by that time the embargo on MTU/Renk combo will have lifted. If not then , at least they have lived to see another day!
This will give them enough public propaganda material and take off the heat.
They are hoping by that time the embargo on MTU/Renk combo will have lifted. If not then , at least they have lived to see another day!
Reviewbrah
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Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi A.Ş.
MKE board of directors, management
From 2013, you can change the dates from the top
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Current level of Hybrid technology is such that you do not need a transmission anymore. Hence space and overall weight savings.
Li-ion battery technology has increased so much that they do not take as much space as they once did. Also remember that batteries can be placed anywhere within the structure of the vehicle.
A DC motor is so powerful that it is not necessary to even compare it to the diesel equivalent. It has maximum torque even at zero revolutions. You need at least 1500revs to reach maximum torque with a diesel engine.
Hybrid is the way forward for military armoured vehicles! Full stop!
