TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Yasar_TR]

The last time I checked Tülomsan was not even able to engineer a 300hp diesel let alone a 1500.
That is largely because Tülomsan is not a thing. The closest thing to Tülomsan can be a marriage of Tümosan and Tülomsaş. Now that would make a sense. But Tümosan has already failed once.

TULOMSAS Produced 1000 HP National Diesel Engine

TÜLOMSAŞ Produced National Diesel Engine with 1000 HP Power

raillynews.com

how about this?

 

[Reviewbrah]

The last time I checked Tülomsan was not even able to engineer a 300hp diesel let alone a 1500.
That is largely because Tülomsan is not a thing. The closest thing to Tülomsan can be a marriage of Tümosan and Tülomsaş. Now that would make a sense. But Tümosan has already failed once.

Tulomsaş expertise is in locomotive engines that could be applied to for generator and marine use, not tank or vehicle engines. There is a big difference

 

[Yasar_TR]

How improper for the leader of a public sector company to say that other companies can not make a thing. It is unreasonable to think he said so. Please present evidence.

It was not improper. He never run down another company. But he was giving his expert opinion Which I am sure is more important and valuable than any one‘s here.
quote:
Bütün mühendislik faaliyetlerini yaparak, geliştirdiğimiz, yan sanayimizle imal ettiğimiz bu motor tamamen özgün 170 beygir dizel motordur. Bütün tasarım ve geliştirme faaliyetleri bizim tarafımızdan yapıldı. Ağır dizeller konusunda da Türkiye'deki tek yetkin komple imalat ve test altyapısı olan yer TÜLOMSAŞ'tır.

Altay Tank'ın motoru ile ilgili önemli gelişme! | STAR

Milli imkanlarla yapılan Altay Ana Muharebe Tankı'nın yerli motorunun üretimine, Türkiye'nin ilk yerli otomobili 'Devrim'de imzası bulunan Eskişehir gözünü dikti.

www.star.com.tr

 

[Saithan]

TÜMOSAN savunmada da iddialı: Türkiye, dünyada söz sahibi bir ülke olacak | Türkiye Ekonomisi Haberleri

Türk savunma sanayisinin en önemli firmaları arasında yer alan TÜMOSAN çalışmalarına hız kesmeden devam ediyor. TÜMOSAN Genel Müdürü Halim Tosun, savunma sanayisindeki yerli zırhlı araç motoru aktarma organları arayışına yakın zamanda yanıt verebileceklerini belirterek, "Savunma Sanayi...

www.yenisafak.com

Tümosan is working with FNSS and are going to succeed. This I believe.

 

[Reviewbrah]

It was not improper. He never run down another company. But he was giving his expert opinion Which I am sure is more important and valuable than any one‘s here.
quote:
Bütün mühendislik faaliyetlerini yaparak, geliştirdiğimiz, yan sanayimizle imal ettiğimiz bu motor tamamen özgün 170 beygir dizel motordur. Bütün tasarım ve geliştirme faaliyetleri bizim tarafımızdan yapıldı. Ağır dizeller konusunda da Türkiye'deki tek yetkin komple imalat ve test altyapısı olan yer TÜLOMSAŞ'tır.

Altay Tank'ın motoru ile ilgili önemli gelişme! | STAR

Milli imkanlarla yapılan Altay Ana Muharebe Tankı'nın yerli motorunun üretimine, Türkiye'nin ilk yerli otomobili 'Devrim'de imzası bulunan Eskişehir gözünü dikti.

www.star.com.tr

Tulomsaş has a lot of potential, they can build infrastructure to build variety of engines to be used by navy and army.

It comes to the same answer, it requires proper government backing and vision

There is a lot of good people in the bureaucracy that would want to help but often get overshadowed, there is bad people who doesn't work in Turkey's interests or just plain dumb to understand potential. We see this a lot, and it keeps happening again same way or other.

 

[Zafer]

It was not improper. He never run down another company. But he was giving his expert opinion Which I am sure is more important and valuable than any one‘s here.
quote:
Bütün mühendislik faaliyetlerini yaparak, geliştirdiğimiz, yan sanayimizle imal ettiğimiz bu motor tamamen özgün 170 beygir dizel motordur. Bütün tasarım ve geliştirme faaliyetleri bizim tarafımızdan yapıldı. Ağır dizeller konusunda da Türkiye'deki tek yetkin komple imalat ve test altyapısı olan yer TÜLOMSAŞ'tır.

Altay Tank'ın motoru ile ilgili önemli gelişme! | STAR

Milli imkanlarla yapılan Altay Ana Muharebe Tankı'nın yerli motorunun üretimine, Türkiye'nin ilk yerli otomobili 'Devrim'de imzası bulunan Eskişehir gözünü dikti.

www.star.com.tr

Seems like more than three years have passed over this incident. Things have changed a lot. It makes a lot more sense that the same company that is making the tank also makes the engine as they can react to requirements and technology changes more readily without a lot of red tape.

 

[Zafer]

Several of you guys are mixing up company names;
Tülomsan: there is no such company
Tümosan: 1000-1200 hp engines seems to have been ignited already
Tülomsaş: 1000+ hp engine wroks

 

[Blood raven]

Several of you guys are mixing up company names;
Tülomsan: there is no such company
Tümosan: 1000-1200 hp engines seems to have been ignited already
Tülomsaş: 1000+ hp engine wroks

I think Saithan said in a previous post, that he calls "Tülomsas" Tülomsan out of habit.

 

[Reviewbrah]

 

[Saithan]

I think Saithan said in a previous post, that he calls "Tülomsas" Tülomsan out of habit.

Completely forgot the name of Tümosan too. Too similar names...

 

[Huelague]

View attachment 5508

Its a Qatari, and well known.

 

[Hexciter]

Until today, delivery of Aselsan’s PULAT Active Protection System has been made for 14 of 169 M60TM tanks that have undergone Firat Modernization. The target is to apply to 40 tanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328709005829697537

 

[what]

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program

A source with knowledge of Turkey's Altay program has told Defense News that the country is negotiating with a South Korean firm in an attempt to recover the struggling project.

www.defensenews.com

Before someone starts complaining about the author, it sounds reasonable and at the same time is hopefully the end of a big fucking mess. But still we will only end up with engines and transmissions that Korea decided were inferior compared to MAN and RENK.

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

An early version of Turkey's Altay tank participates in a military parade in Ankara, Turkey, on Aug. 30, 2015. (Burhan Ozbilici/AP)​

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish procurement and military officials as well as teams from a private manufacturer have been negotiating with a South Korean company to recover a program riddled with delays for the production of the country’s first indigenous new-generation main battle tank.

“This program has faced major delays due to failed access to significant components like the engine, transmission and armor,” a procurement official told Defense News. “I am not in a position to give a date for the start of serial production. All I know is we are trying hard to get it moved ahead.”
In 2019, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s office included the Altay tank as part of the military’s 2020 inventory in a government document. In an October 2019 speech, Ethem Sancak — a senior shareholder in BMC, which makes the Altay — said the tank would be fielded within 24 months.

It now appears that prediction was too optimistic. The presidential office’s 2021 investment program, released earlier this month, does not even mention the Altay, let alone the tank entering service.
According to a source with knowledge of the Altay program, BMC has been in talks with Hyundai Rotem to solve problems surrounding missing foreign technology for the Altay, which Turkish officials often portray as a fully national, indigenous Turkish tank. The South Korean company previously built public transportation and Bosporus crossing systems in Istanbul, Ankara and Adana as well as light rail systems in Istanbul and Izmir.

“We are hoping our talks will eventually sort out the problems regarding the power pack — [the engine and transmission — that] we will use in the serial production cycle,” the source told Defense News. “We are probably talking about another couple of months of talks before we know which way we are headed.”
He added that BMC is in indirect talks, through Hyundai Rotem, with two South Korean defense technology concerns: engine-maker Doosan and S&T Dynamics, which produces automatic transmissions.
“Ideally a Doosan-S&T power pack will power the Altay if we can iron out differences and licensing issues,” he said.

South Korea has experienced similar problems with its program for the mass production of the K2 Black Panther tank. Its deployment by the Army faced delays due to problems concerning the engine and transmission.

A South Korean K2 tank fires during a live-fire demonstration Sept. 11, 2018. (Jung Yeon-Je/AFP via Getty Images)

The first 100 units were built with a Doosan 1,500-horsepower engine and an S&T Dynamics automatic transmission. Under a second contract, tanks began to be delivered in late 2016. But after S&T Dynamics' transmission failed durability tests, South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration announced the second batch would have a “hybrid” power pack consisting of the locally developed engine and the German RENK transmission system.

“How the Turks can make use of a proven engine and a failed transmission remains to be seen,” said a London-based Turkey expert, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Turkey had hoped to power the Altay with the German MTU engine and RENK transmission, but talks with German manufacturers over the past couple of years failed due to a federal arms embargo on Turkey. Germany is one of a number of European governments that have limited exports to Turkey over its involvement in the Syrian civil war.

A similar problem concerns the Altay’s planned armor. Turkey was hoping a French armor solution would be continue to be available following an initial batch of 40 units. But recent political tension between the two countries over hydrocarbon explorations off Cyprus has put this in jeopardy.
The source with knowledge of the Altay program said the armor will now be locally produced under a public-private partnership.

The Altay program dates back to the mid-1990s, but it wasn’t until November 2018 that the Turkish government awarded the tank’s multibillion-dollar contract to BMC. In a competition, the firm defeated Otokar, which had already produced four Altay prototypes under a government contract.

The contract involves the production of an initial batch of 250 units, life-cycle logistical support, and the establishment by the contractor of a tank systems technology center and its operation. As part of the contract, BMC will design, develop and produce a tank with an unmanned fire control unit.
The contract said the first Altay tank is to roll off the assembly line within 18 months. Opposition parties in parliament have slammed the government over delays, but procurement officials claim the 18-month clause will apply after the first unit’s production begins.

The Altay program is broken into two phases: T1 and T2. T1 covers the first 250 units, and T2 involves the advanced version of the tank. Turkey also plans to eventually produce 1,000 Altays, to be followed by an unmanned version.

The deal has proved politically controversy, particularly after the Erdogan administration leased for free a military-owned tank and turret factory by the Marmara Sea to BMC for a period of 25 years.
The move prompted cries of nepotism, as BMC shareholder Sancak was a senior member of Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party at the time.

Ozgur Eksi, an independent defense analyst, questioned the choice of assigning a factory by the sea for tank production. “In the event of war, the Altay factory could be an easy target for the enemy fire,” he said. “This program could have been much better planned from a strategic point of view.”
Nevertheless, Eksi added, “there is a political determination to get the Altays into the Army’s inventory. Sooner or later, production will start.”

 

[Blood raven]

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program

A source with knowledge of Turkey's Altay program has told Defense News that the country is negotiating with a South Korean firm in an attempt to recover the struggling project.

www.defensenews.com

Rip Altay. They either have to scrap the idea and make a new tank model or the altay project will actually rise like a phoenix and becomes a new altay 1.5

 

[Tornadoss]

Until today, delivery of Aselsan’s PULAT Active Protection System has been made for 14 of 169 M60TM tanks that have undergone Firat Modernization. The target is to apply to 40 tanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328709005829697537

View attachment 6613 View attachment 6614 View attachment 6615

WHy not to all? Maybe Akkor will be implemented on others?

 

[Nutuk]

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program

A source with knowledge of Turkey's Altay program has told Defense News that the country is negotiating with a South Korean firm in an attempt to recover the struggling project.

www.defensenews.com

Before someone starts complaining about the author, it sounds reasonable and at the same time is hopefully the end of a big fucking mess. But still we will only end up with engines and transmissions that Korea decided were inferior compared to MAN and RENK.

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

View attachment 6830

An early version of Turkey's Altay tank participates in a military parade in Ankara, Turkey, on Aug. 30, 2015. (Burhan Ozbilici/AP)​

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish procurement and military officials as well as teams from a private manufacturer have been negotiating with a South Korean company to recover a program riddled with delays for the production of the country’s first indigenous new-generation main battle tank.

“This program has faced major delays due to failed access to significant components like the engine, transmission and armor,” a procurement official told Defense News. “I am not in a position to give a date for the start of serial production. All I know is we are trying hard to get it moved ahead.”
In 2019, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s office included the Altay tank as part of the military’s 2020 inventory in a government document. In an October 2019 speech, Ethem Sancak — a senior shareholder in BMC, which makes the Altay — said the tank would be fielded within 24 months.

It now appears that prediction was too optimistic. The presidential office’s 2021 investment program, released earlier this month, does not even mention the Altay, let alone the tank entering service.
According to a source with knowledge of the Altay program, BMC has been in talks with Hyundai Rotem to solve problems surrounding missing foreign technology for the Altay, which Turkish officials often portray as a fully national, indigenous Turkish tank. The South Korean company previously built public transportation and Bosporus crossing systems in Istanbul, Ankara and Adana as well as light rail systems in Istanbul and Izmir.

“We are hoping our talks will eventually sort out the problems regarding the power pack — [the engine and transmission — that] we will use in the serial production cycle,” the source told Defense News. “We are probably talking about another couple of months of talks before we know which way we are headed.”
He added that BMC is in indirect talks, through Hyundai Rotem, with two South Korean defense technology concerns: engine-maker Doosan and S&T Dynamics, which produces automatic transmissions.
“Ideally a Doosan-S&T power pack will power the Altay if we can iron out differences and licensing issues,” he said.

South Korea has experienced similar problems with its program for the mass production of the K2 Black Panther tank. Its deployment by the Army faced delays due to problems concerning the engine and transmission.

View attachment 6831
A South Korean K2 tank fires during a live-fire demonstration Sept. 11, 2018. (Jung Yeon-Je/AFP via Getty Images)

The first 100 units were built with a Doosan 1,500-horsepower engine and an S&T Dynamics automatic transmission. Under a second contract, tanks began to be delivered in late 2016. But after S&T Dynamics' transmission failed durability tests, South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration announced the second batch would have a “hybrid” power pack consisting of the locally developed engine and the German RENK transmission system.

“How the Turks can make use of a proven engine and a failed transmission remains to be seen,” said a London-based Turkey expert, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Turkey had hoped to power the Altay with the German MTU engine and RENK transmission, but talks with German manufacturers over the past couple of years failed due to a federal arms embargo on Turkey. Germany is one of a number of European governments that have limited exports to Turkey over its involvement in the Syrian civil war.

A similar problem concerns the Altay’s planned armor. Turkey was hoping a French armor solution would be continue to be available following an initial batch of 40 units. But recent political tension between the two countries over hydrocarbon explorations off Cyprus has put this in jeopardy.
The source with knowledge of the Altay program said the armor will now be locally produced under a public-private partnership.

The Altay program dates back to the mid-1990s, but it wasn’t until November 2018 that the Turkish government awarded the tank’s multibillion-dollar contract to BMC. In a competition, the firm defeated Otokar, which had already produced four Altay prototypes under a government contract.

The contract involves the production of an initial batch of 250 units, life-cycle logistical support, and the establishment by the contractor of a tank systems technology center and its operation. As part of the contract, BMC will design, develop and produce a tank with an unmanned fire control unit.
The contract said the first Altay tank is to roll off the assembly line within 18 months. Opposition parties in parliament have slammed the government over delays, but procurement officials claim the 18-month clause will apply after the first unit’s production begins.

The Altay program is broken into two phases: T1 and T2. T1 covers the first 250 units, and T2 involves the advanced version of the tank. Turkey also plans to eventually produce 1,000 Altays, to be followed by an unmanned version.

The deal has proved politically controversy, particularly after the Erdogan administration leased for free a military-owned tank and turret factory by the Marmara Sea to BMC for a period of 25 years.
The move prompted cries of nepotism, as BMC shareholder Sancak was a senior member of Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party at the time.

Ozgur Eksi, an independent defense analyst, questioned the choice of assigning a factory by the sea for tank production. “In the event of war, the Altay factory could be an easy target for the enemy fire,” he said. “This program could have been much better planned from a strategic point of view.”
Nevertheless, Eksi added, “there is a political determination to get the Altays into the Army’s inventory. Sooner or later, production will start.”

Look at the writer of the article.

Writen by Burak Ege Bekdil, this guy never shows any source and just writes something he makes up. I would not put to mutch hope on his writings.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I hope BMC engineers don’t wait until an alternative engine agreement will be done. I hope they have already started working to develop Altay-T2 variant.

 

[Reviewbrah]

Look at the writer of the article.

Writen by Burak Ege Bekdil, this guy never shows any source and just writes something he makes up. I would not put to mutch hope on his writings.

I would not read his writings at the first place, look up his background

These "journalists" with no background in defense industry writing manipulative news

 

[GoatsMilk]

corruption and cronyism killed the Altay project. Should have been left in Otokars hands.

 

[adenl]

Either way, the engine would still be the bottleneck, and no Otokar nor BMC could've solved that.