TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Reviewbrah]

This was BMC's Leo modernization, it was a joke

Just read over BMC's board members, there is no engineers

Pharmaceutical sellers lol

 

[Khagan1923]

View attachment 5379

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This was BMC's Leo modernization, it was a joke

Just read over BMC's board members, there is no engineers

Pharmaceutical sellers lol

After these pictures leaked the project was handed over to Aselsan but no one dares say it out loud. BMC is not involved anymore. Its involvement was a joke from the beginning. What experience or solution does BMC have to modernize a tank that it wins a a tender to modernize the Land Forces's L2A4?!

You sabotage Altay and then when the Army gets up and says "well Altay ain't coming at least let us modernize the L2A4 to a modern standard so we have a competitive tank out there against others", you go and give it to the same guys who are the reason the Army even in the first place started the project to modernize its L2A4s.

 

[Khagan1923]

I mean there is no factory either so no factory = no production.

In the time Bayraktar produced over a hundred of TB2s and developed Akinci and started its testing and soon serial production, BMC is still "building" a factory to produce Armored Vehicles of all kinds in Sakarya. On land it got for free from the Government, specifically because they were awarded the Altay tender, a tender that was ready to be awarded two years earlier in 2016 after all Altay had already undergone all tests even some multiple times. After its owner realized that his firm can't even build the factory in time they asked for the Armed Forces Maintance Factory. Which it got, under the pretext it was going to "modernize" it, which still hasn't happened. FNSS has designed, developed and started testing and producing several modern vehicles in the same time frame. TAI is making progress over progress for its own projects started from scratch in the same timeframe. BMC? Oh yeah they upgraded Kirpi a bit and started delivering them to the Land Forces, what else? NOTHING. No progress report of the projects it won the tenders on.

L2A4 modernization by BMC was FUBAR and taken off their hands in silence.
Engine developments? Not a single report by any credible source talking about it since they "officially" began development around 2017. Not a single one. Not one bit about a partnership, about prototypes, about progress. None. Nothing about Transmissions either, don't forget, they are supposed to develop a "Powerpack" not "engine". This includes a transmission.

Every other gives updates on its projects other than BMC. MKEK and BMC. Could close down both, give their project to the other companies and they would still be faster done than those two.

 

[Glass🚬]

In the time Bayraktar produced over a hundred of TB2s and developed Akinci and started its testing and soon serial production, BMC is still "building" a factory to produce Armored Vehicles of all kinds in Sakarya. On land it got for free from the Government, specifically because they were awarded the Altay tender, a tender that was ready to be awarded two years earlier in 2016 after all Altay had already undergone all tests even some multiple times. After its owner realized that his firm can't even build the factory in time they asked for the Armed Forces Maintance Factory. Which it got, under the pretext it was going to "modernize" it, which still hasn't happened. FNSS has designed, developed and started testing and producing several modern vehicles in the same time frame. TAI is making progress over progress for its own projects started from scratch in the same timeframe. BMC? Oh yeah they upgraded Kirpi a bit and started delivering them to the Land Forces, what else? NOTHING. No progress report of the projects it won the tenders on.

L2A4 modernization by BMC was FUBAR and taken off their hands in silence.
Engine developments? Not a single report by any credible source talking about it since they "officially" began development around 2017. Not a single one. Not one bit about a partnership, about prototypes, about progress. None. Nothing about Transmissions either, don't forget, they are supposed to develop a "Powerpack" not "engine". This includes a transmission.

Every other gives updates on its projects other than BMC. MKEK and BMC. Could close down both, give their project to the other companies and they would still be faster done than those two.

BMC will be in a difficult position when erdo has to step down from his throne in 2 years.

 

[Kartal1]

In the time Bayraktar produced over a hundred of TB2s and developed Akinci and started its testing and soon serial production, BMC is still "building" a factory to produce Armored Vehicles of all kinds in Sakarya. On land it got for free from the Government, specifically because they were awarded the Altay tender, a tender that was ready to be awarded two years earlier in 2016 after all Altay had already undergone all tests even some multiple times. After its owner realized that his firm can't even build the factory in time they asked for the Armed Forces Maintance Factory. Which it got, under the pretext it was going to "modernize" it, which still hasn't happened. FNSS has designed, developed and started testing and producing several modern vehicles in the same time frame. TAI is making progress over progress for its own projects started from scratch in the same timeframe. BMC? Oh yeah they upgraded Kirpi a bit and started delivering them to the Land Forces, what else? NOTHING. No progress report of the projects it won the tenders on.

L2A4 modernization by BMC was FUBAR and taken off their hands in silence.
Engine developments? Not a single report by any credible source talking about it since they "officially" began development around 2017. Not a single one. Not one bit about a partnership, about prototypes, about progress. None. Nothing about Transmissions either, don't forget, they are supposed to develop a "Powerpack" not "engine". This includes a transmission.

Every other gives updates on its projects other than BMC. MKEK and BMC. Could close down both, give their project to the other companies and they would still be faster done than those two.

I hope FNSS gets involved in that project. They have the biggest experience with tracked vehicles and even are producing medium weight tanks. Now we also see that they are eager to cooperate with TUMOSAN which have working national engines in the OMTTZA project for the TSK and the Gendarmerie. When they work they work. I am saying this by putting aside all the political factors here. FNSS is on completely different level compared to BMC.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Any company but BMC will have more chance of coming out with a tank . There are two reasons for giving projects to BMC; first one is because of Qatari finance , second one is because of slicing the cream off of the sales. Second reason is the major one.
If in today’s conditions , there are no engines and transmissions available to power the tank, I honestly don’t know why they have not investigated in producing an “electro diesel hybrid engine“ like the one used in Tulomsas/Aselsan‘s HSL700. This engine does not need a transmission. 400hp electrodiesel engine provides current to drive the motors and at the same time charge the li-ion batteries. The battery also provides a further 540hp of power to the motors.
if these two established companies can produce a 940 watt drivetrain with this cooperation, I am sure they can come up with a 1500hp solution As well. The battery is also charged with braking etc through kinetic energy recovery system. As the batteries can be distributed through the tank they will not be as bulky as a transmission.

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/HSL700_Hybrid_Shunting_Locomotive_1776.pdf

nothing can beat the torque of an electric motor. Especially the DC motor. At zero revolutions it gives maximum torque and keeps it the same all the way up the revs.

 

[Kartal1]

 

[Reviewbrah]

This medium tank is very ideal for mountainous warfare

Our amphibious forces needs replacement for M48s

Much better than majority of tanks we have

Has active protection system

Kaplan MT can be airlifted with A400M

Not a MBT replacement but can take majority of the workload

 

[Kartal1]

This medium tank is very ideal for mountainous warfare

Our amphibious forces needs replacement for M48s

Much better than majority of tanks we have

Has active protection system

Kaplan MT can be airlifted with A400M

Not a MBT replacement but can take majority of the workload

I have always defended Medium Weight Tanks in the inventory of the Amphibious Task Group Command. It would be a very good addition. The M48s they use are very outdated in terms of sensors and armor. If the Navy don't want to establish a tank school within it's force command the amphibious personnel can be trained in the Land Forces and then turn to the Navy in order to continue their duties. It would really lighten the bureaucratic and also coordination weight between the Navy and the Land Forces. The Medium Weight Tanks can be very useful in internal security and operations in foreign lands used in a supportive role for the marines that are tasked giving more flexibility to the units and the capability to conduct independent operations without the Land Forces.

 

[Huelague]

They need an APS and later "anti drone" system.

 

[Saithan]

I hope FNSS gets involved in that project. They have the biggest experience with tracked vehicles and even are producing medium weight tanks. Now we also see that they are eager to cooperate with TUMOSAN which have working national engines in the OMTTZA project for the TSK and the Gendarmerie. When they work they work. I am saying this by putting aside all the political factors here. FNSS is on completely different level compared to BMC.

Don’t forget BMC started developing engine too.....

My love still goes out to Tülomsan and even more after seeing their video of mass production tractor engine factory.

 

[Cypro]

This has potential to be a stopgap and supplement 350 modernised leo2 and M60T, but it is not fully localised either.. A local turret by Aselsan and local engine is needed for this project as well.. And how good is it against ATGM or UAVs?

I always admired the M60-2000 project by GD.. Put a new turret (Altay Turret) on M60A3 and APS they are ready for battle, but I guess they will need new engine too, or Leo 1s with new turret. Altay is lost due to corruption and embargo, It won't be ready anytime soon. Engine and power transmission is a big problem.

I heard Italians are looking for a partner to develop future Tank of Italy, may be Turkey should consider that as well.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/a...nfirms-italian-offer-to-develop-new-tank.html

 

[Anmdt]

You sabotage Altay and then when the Army gets up and says "well Altay ain't coming at least let us modernize the L2A4 to a modern standard so we have a competitive tank out there against others", you go and give it to the same guys who are the reason the Army even in the first place started the project to modernize its L2A4s.

Because you have sold the army factory and maintenance center to that company, while factory itself is already capable to do that particular modernization.

 

[Anmdt]

Don’t forget BMC started developing engine too.....

Anyone else except them has developed and worked on engines in the past..
I worry the same will happen, or already happens at TRMotor.

 

[Anmdt]

This has potential to be a stopgap and supplement 350 modernised leo2 and M60T, but it is not fully localised either

Turkish Army doesn't like medium tanks -don't ask me why- , the possible partner is Navy , to replace M48s but just a possibility. I am pretty sure when needed the Navy will call for proposals and FNSS will come with a better and dedicated solution to their needs.

 

[Kartal1]

This has potential to be a stopgap and supplement 350 modernised leo2 and M60T, but it is not fully localised either.. A local turret by Aselsan and local engine is needed for this project as well.. And how good is it against ATGM or UAVs?

I always admired the M60-2000 project by GD.. Put a new turret (Altay Turret) on M60A3 and APS they are ready for battle, but I guess they will need new engine too, or Leo 1s with new turret. Altay is lost due to corruption and embargo, It won't be ready anytime soon. Engine and power transmission is a big problem.

I heard Italians are looking for a partner to develop future Tank of Italy, may be Turkey should consider that as well.

Kaplan MT have the highest protection level in its class according to FNSS. There is a little chance to counter UAVs and 3rd generation top attack ATGMs unless we introduce AKKOR APS to it. Against 2nd (most used) generation ATGMs it will be effective with the help of PULAT.

If needed I am sure Aselsan can develop a new turret. I don't think it can act as a stop gap for Altay but supplement to the modernized Leopard 2A4 and M60Ts for sure but I am thinking of it as a sole solution for the Amphibious Brigade which can also perform in expeditionary operations around the world. The Amphibious Brigade can have a good use of amphibious APCs and MTs. I don't think the concept have a large place for the Land Forces and I think that on a comparable level of ballistic protection and less weight our IFVs can deliver more for the needs of the Land Forces.

It's powerpack is not a problem I think as it is using ~700hp engine which have many different alternatives. Our domestic powerpack projects are going on and I think we will see advancement in the next 1-2 year regarding engines of up to 1000hp. The national engine that will be used in the 8x8 and 6x6 OMTTZA project will have a power output of 450-550hp I think. The deliveries of the first two (1 450hp and 1 550hp) is expected to be made in 2021 for further tests and agreement about the deliveries of total 100 engines to the FNSS is signed.

Of course when we are talking about a possible introduction of a MT to the armed forces we are not talking about tomorrow because even if TSK decides to procure MTs they will need to be modified/redesigned according to the specific needs of TSK (The FNSS Kaplan MT is made according to the specific needs of the customer and according to the needs of the countries of SE Asia) and that is a long process. I am confident in the capabilities of FNSS.

 

[Ryder]

Fck BMC.

Bmc stick to armoured vehicles or trucks.

Sick of this blatant bullshit corruption. Regardless of akp or not.

 

[Saithan]

Fck BMC.

Bmc stick to armoured vehicles or trucks.

Sick of this blatant bullshit corruption. Regardless of akp or not.

Knowing your current limits and not screwing the country over is also an important aspect of being nationalistic.

If BMC accumulate more knowledge over the years like FNSS, they could make a tank in the future. Now they will need to fix that horrible impression they manage to leave.

 

[Ryder]

You have some people saying well we can just modernise leos and the m60s.

How far can modernisation go???

If so we would not bother buying a new car we would just stick with the car you bought years ago. Ridiculous logic. Just because the British and Dutch got rid of tanks dont mean tanks are dinosaurs.

British have an advantage because they are an island nation that means they can just strengthen their air and naval assets along with cyber warfare. Turkiye does not have that luxury because of land based geography also how our neighbours have tanks some even have new ones.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

BMC is only known for making a simple MRAP.

Otokar, FNSS and some other Turkish land vehicle companies have shown that they can innovate. They have some very smart solutions and their products are of excellent quality. You cannot compare these companies to BMC. Not only that, both Otokar and FNSS have some experience with tracked vehicles. FNSS in particular is very experienced with tracked vehicles.

It made absolutely no sense to give this to BMC. This project must be given to either FNSS or Otokar immediately.