TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Combat-Master]

I have a question. We are so focussed on the engine but do we know which gun will be used for this tank? I mean we were to use L55 but most likely it will be ambargoed so do we have any alternative?

Does MKEK has the capacity to produce tank guns?

MKEK has been producing cannons for donkey years, it's not an issue for them and have up-to-date facilities.

MAKİNE ve KİMYA ENDÜSTRİSİ A.Ş

MAKİNE ve KİMYA ENDÜSTRİSİ A.Ş

urunler.mke.gov.tr

 

[Ryder]

You are approaching it with a good principle...so there is literally zero insult (if receiving end appreciates what that principle is).

More Indians need to hear it (many are deluded/ignorant, have too much ego they generally "cross-harness"... and/or deflect to some silly apologism/excuse).

It is why I give big credit to red-effect and others (alongside and before him) that speak in very plain rational terms about faults....and hammer away on it again and again....and show rational compromise + credit when it is merited too.

It all reminds me personally of my own conversations regarding ego-freaks on all kind of things (Arjun included), India or non-India related....sometimes almost word for word...and harsher ways than you have here.

Have to keep in mind that Ego-freaks:

A) Are not exclusive to any society, they are a human condition/prevalence at large.

B) End up shielding and promoting mediocrity, incompetence, corruption and even abject failures.

C) DETRACT from the successes (which are clear and need definition as to WHY they succeeded...rather than throwing those in with the gunk too)...ironically exact reverse of what they (by irrational emotionalism) intend.

I mean you can't throw crap with good and hope the crap is lifted by the good.....the crap by its definition is crap. You need to minimise crap and have more good to win overall. But ego-freak would try have you believe otherwise.

System that gathers/enables (BAD!) or prevents/disenables (GOOD!) ego-freaks et al. (and all the crap they inevitably leave in their wake) is what is to be studied, implemented, perfected, expanded and entrenched by rational reasoned folks.

The less detritus you have clogging up a pipe, the more the pipe lets flow. It's really that simple.

Again, Turks and others can muse on how/what/where it applies in their own specific realm and context.

More to do with honour when it comes to Eastern Based cultures. Indians can be stubborn same with Turks when our countries name gets dragged through the mud.

I think a lot of Indians know how bad the Arjun tank but when experts especially Non Indians talk about it, it becomes an issue of honour for a lot of Indians either they dont want to face reality or maybe they do accept the program was so awful due to corruption and bureaucracy delays still need to defend because its Indian.

For Turks too many are fustrated because we want the Altay tanks now and are also angry on why the program is taking long. For many Turks its an issue of honour yes the program is rife with corruption and favouritism for many they accept it but also hard to stomach you have a lot of fanboys from bmc fanboys, erdogan supporters, otokar fanboys all pointing blame on each other. Seriously bmc has no experience in building tanks I can see why so many are pissed off due to bmc being close to Erdogan.

Altay Tank is seen really important because its the countries first Turkish made tank and a milestone that has to be achieved.

Hopefully the next tank project is given to FNSS. They have proven that they can do it no harsh feelings towards bmc and otokar.

Hopefully the Altay tank comes. Im not losing hope

 

[Nilgiri]

Its really point B that allows this stuff to happen. People can't separate their love of a political party to the reality of the specific event. As a result the problem persists and gets worse and worse. Since erdogan and ak party are the architects of this Altay/BMC mess it cannot be criticised and thus is given a freehand. Altay turned into a complete mess for Turkey. What began as a really exciting and important project for Turkey has incrementally turned into a joke. How far this joke goes, i don't know.

In India case, we had multi-administrations that are culpable (from their end) so it ends up becoming less political in the larger context (everyone ends up sharing the blame). i.e everyone is a problem in tolerating bureaucratic BS and corruption in a number of projects (where raw need is less urgent). They also all bear and share credit for the relative successes (where raw need has been and is high) as those gestate, develop and mature too....i.e nothing becomes exclusive + polarised on the good and bad here given nature of the bureaucratic beast at large.

Erdogan admin has been around since 2000 I believe....so things have crystallised more politically for you guys in this realm....as far as culpability. I can understand where you are coming from...though I don't know much details like you and Turkish members would.

It is why in general I don't like seeing political administration (anywhere) having more than 2 terms in power. But that is longer off topic conversation.

More to do with honour when it comes to Eastern Based cultures. Indians can be stubborn same with Turks when our countries name gets dragged through the mud.

I think a lot of Indians know how bad the Arjun tank but when experts especially Non Indians talk about it, it becomes an issue of honour for a lot of Indians either they dont want to face reality or maybe they do accept the program was so awful due to corruption and bureaucracy delays still need to defend because its Indian.

Yah, there is tendency to spread defenders thin, thinking whole front must be defended....and that the whole front will be helped by doing so.

This takes away from consolidating where along the front you are strong (which is more rational approach)....and then applying those from the root to the weaker areas over time.

It is catch 22 in psychology I guess, some degree of failures are needed to be recognised to be able to promote and expand the successes more readily.

For Turks too many are fustrated because we want the Altay tanks now and are also angry on why the program is taking long. For many Turks its an issue of honour yes the program is rife with corruption and favouritism for many they accept it but also hard to stomach you have a lot of fanboys from bmc fanboys, erdogan supporters, otokar fanboys all pointing blame on each other. Seriously bmc has no experience in building tanks I can see why so many are pissed off due to bmc being close to Erdogan.

Altay Tank is seen really important because its the countries first Turkish made tank and a milestone that has to be achieved.

Hopefully the next tank project is given to FNSS. They have proven that they can do it no harsh feelings towards bmc and otokar.

Hopefully the Altay tank comes. Im not losing hope

Yah I am understanding this context more now from the discussion. Topic that is new to me structure wise.

 

[Quasar]

isolated ammunition compartment will still be coming with T2 ? or what has been shown at IDEF 2021 had any changes concerning this issue as well?

 

[Combat-Master]

Meteksan developing ATGM-KTB which is an electro-optical jammer that disrupts Semi-automatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles.

Soon to start live firing tests.

 

[Tonyukuk]

Meteksan developing ATGM-KTB which is an electro-optical jammer that disrupts Semi-automatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles.
View attachment 29578

Soon to start live firing tests.

I must say Meteksan has been very impressive lately.

 

[nakaFH]

Meteksan's ATGM-KTB electro-optical jammer disrupts Semi-automatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles (TOW, Milan, Kornet etc.) is precious for residential battle.
If the area test results are satisfactory it will be very helpful for our brave soldiers.
But, I am curious to learn the detail of how to detect coming missile. Maybe reflection of fore glass of missile as a result of sending laser or other optical tools. Time is so short sometimes reaction time decreases 1/50 second.
If Meteksan team is satisfactorly succeded then very appreciate them.

 

[Pantelis]

Like SHTORA-1?

 

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430597922543001602

Mechanical engineer specializing in laser technology take on this system.

Effective and cheap method against dated and Russian/Soviet tech ATGMs

Shtora is an IR heat lamp. Around 1kW power. Likely because of 1kW a lot of heat. Similar tech to this is used in paint factories and drying ovens. Difficult to modularize heat producing, very power hungry lights.

Meteksan likely uses laser based light/ray source. Meteksan does have experience with terrain avoidance system in this matter.

Diode/laser based systems can be a lot more cooler and work for a lot longer periods of time. Can be modularized.

Generally this type of systems, watch for light, shining from ATGM launcher optics, or missiles light. IR could cut connection between operator and missile depending on the guidance system. Force ATGM operator to do maneuvers that could result in missile missing the target. or straight blind the ATGM operator.

For reasons like Shtora's heat output and low life span. and in order of IR light to work tank's sensor system has to trigger it. It's an outdated system. Laser based systems with low power usage. Laser capabilities. Fully wide IR dazzlers it can be a lot more effective.

 

[TheInsider]

Our tank protection capability expands.

Akkor (premium level active protection/hitting a missile with another missile)
Akkor Pulat (Affordable hard kill )
Meteksan (Good against Saclos and older Russian tech which still constitute overwhelmingly major part of the ATGM threat)
Aselsan KAMA ( It is Akkor lite develop for lighter vehicles rather than MBTs. It works different than Akkor. )

 

[Hexciter]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430597922543001602

Mechanical engineer specializing in laser technology take on this system.

Effective and cheap method against dated and Russian/Soviet tech ATGMs

Shtora is an IR heat lamp. Around 1kW power. Likely because of 1kW a lot of heat. Similar tech to this is used in paint factories and drying ovens. Difficult to modularize heat producing, very power hungry lights.

Meteksan likely uses laser based light/ray source. Meteksan does have experience with terrain avoidance system in this matter.

Diode/laser based systems can be a lot more cooler and work for a lot longer periods of time. Can be modularized.

Generally this type of systems, watch for light, shining from ATGM launcher optics, or missiles light. IR could cut connection between operator and missile depending on the guidance system. Force ATGM operator to do maneuvers that could result in missile missing the target. or straight blind the ATGM operator.

For reasons like Shtora's heat output and low life span. and in order of IR light to work tank's sensor system has to trigger it. It's an outdated system. Laser based systems with low power usage. Laser capabilities. Fully wide IR dazzlers it can be a lot more effective.

I know it as LED based, not laser

 

[Combat-Master]

Like SHTORA-1?

Yes, uses the same principles to defeat SACLOS type ATGMs.

US also has a version they used in Iraq, AN/VLQ-6 MCD.

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[Khagan1923]

Our tank protection capability expands.

Akkor (premium level active protection/hitting a missile with another missile)
Akkor Pulat (Affordable hard kill )
Meteksan (Good against Saclos and older Russian tech which still constitute overwhelmingly major part of the ATGM threat)
Aselsan KAMA ( It is Akkor lite develop for lighter vehicles rather than MBTs. It works different than Akkor. )

Kama reminds me of Prometeus. Though Kama most likely has been in development longer.

 

[Jacop]

Our tank protection capability expands.

Akkor (premium level active protection/hitting a missile with another missile)
Akkor Pulat (Affordable hard kill )
Meteksan (Good against Saclos and older Russian tech which still constitute overwhelmingly major part of the ATGM threat)
Aselsan KAMA ( It is Akkor lite develop for lighter vehicles rather than MBTs. It works different than Akkor. )

Iron Fist is pretty dominant on APSs. The Turkish system needs to prove itself in this technology

 

[Tornadoss]

Iron Fist is pretty dominant on APSs. The Turkish system needs to prove itself in this technology

In Israel iron fist lost against Trophy. Is there any particular advantage of trophy over iron fist?

 

[Huelague]

Iron Fist is pretty dominant on APSs. The Turkish system needs to prove itself in this technology

Believe us, we will get many opportunities, to prove it.

 

[Huelague]

Like SHTORA-1?

Finally amq!!!

 

[Jacop]

Believe us, we will get many opportunities, to prove it.

prove it away from Israel if possible

 

[Jacop]

In Israel iron fist lost against Trophy. Is there any particular advantage of trophy over iron fist?

Iron Fist's interceptor, Trophy's radar and sensors.. The ministry even planned to marry these two

Integrating “Trophy” and “Iron Fist”

IsraelDefense learned that the director of the Ministry of Defense has decided to force Rafael and IMI into integrating their respective anti-tank missile interceptor systems: Trophy and Iron Fist. The decision calls for the new system to be integrated with Elta’s radar (Elta is part of Israel...

www.israeldefense.co.il