TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Anmdt]

Wow!
So what diesel engine have we chosen for the remainder 7 ships?
Wartsilla?
Is that also going to be a problem for the soon to be produced TF2000 destroyer?

They continued with MAN, strangely Germany still green-lights RENK cross-connect transmission and few other components (or more the fact that MAN being anoter German manufacturer of engines). They simply wanter to cut access of TN into of the latest engine line. MTU still has best power to volume/weight ratio and highest MTBF, but MAN is comparable with the moves they have made in last decade.

At this point i could believe they have some people of specific origin or race in MTU who desperately hates TR.

I know it is not 1-to-1 example but when the embargoes were imminent, both operator and designer could sit down evaluate how to make it through, and plan a roadmap for a local engine.

And yes possibly with TF-2000 they will continue with MAN. It doesn't matter much for TF-2000, the engine room spacious.

 

[Saithan]

They continued with MAN, strangely Germany still green-lights RENK cross-connect transmission and few other components (or more the fact that MAN being anoter German manufacturer of engines). They simply wanter to cut access of TN into of the latest engine line. MTU still has best power to volume/weight ratio and highest MTBF, but MAN is comparable with the moves they have made in last decade.

At this point i could believe they have some people of specific origin or race in MTU who desperately hates TR.

I know it is not 1-to-1 example but when the embargoes were imminent, both operator and designer could sit down evaluate how to make it through, and plan a roadmap for a local engine.

And yes possibly with TF-2000 they will continue with MAN. It doesn't matter much for TF-2000, the engine room spacious.

I would have tasked MIT to investigate MTU and such companies that are involved in critical defense projects. That would be natural risk assessment measures.

Or have a unit that specializes in such an operates independent from counter terrorism

 

[Khagan1923]

About that. Yalçıntaş resigned nearly a year ago in jan 2024. Did they even appoint a new CEO since then? What the hell is happening at BMC?

There were reputable rumours already going around years ago that majority of its engineers were leaving. If I am not mistaken there were also reports that Tosyali was looking to get rid of BMC but I'm just gonna guess they could not find another yandas corporation to take it over. Rumours were also saying Tosyali was pretty much forced to take it over and did not want it from the beginning.

BMC also does not really have any real exports, majority of the exports shown off on social media are gifts of older vehicles in the inventory of the TSK to "friendly" countries and then TSK of course has to order new vehicles to replace the ones the had to give away.

Nothing new about their wheeled 8x8, to the contrary there were reports after once again the deadline for the YNZMA had passed that it was ordered that the trials had to be redone due to one companies vehicles not even passing basic tests, essentially to give said company more time, wonder who that could be, not like two of the three companies entering the tender already have established and proven 8x8 designs which have been exported. And now some more reputable accounts have pretty much been hinting that Pars Alpha will be chosen, but who knows.

Altay has been a total catastrophy since being handed over to BMC.
Leo modernization by BMC pretty much also a catastrophy now they are supposed to be the endstation of assembly, who knows why( ) yet therehas been zero movement for years now.

BMC Engine is a seperate entity, for good reasons.

It was always behind Otokar and FNSS, we unnecessarly lost who knows how much time by trying to appease yandas businessmen for now almost a decade.

Offtopic but remember how our government tried to integrate BMC into the project for the engines for Kaan? And how the partnership with Rolls Royce fell into water because of inclusion of said company in the agreements.

 

[Anmdt]

There were reputable rumours already going around years ago that majority of its engineers were leaving. If I am not mistaken there were also reports that Tosyali was looking to get rid of BMC but I'm just gonna guess they could not find another yandas corporation to take it over. Rumours were also saying Tosyali was pretty much forced to take it over and did not want it from the beginning.

BMC also does not really have any real exports, majority of the exports shown off on social media are gifts of older vehicles in the inventory of the TSK to "friendly" countries and then TSK of course has to order new vehicles to replace the ones the had to gave away.

Nothing new about their wheeled 8x8, to the contrary there were reports after once again the deadline for the YNZMA had passed that it was ordered that the trials had to be redone due to one companies vehicles not even passing basic tests, essentially to give said company more time, wonder who that could be, not like two of the three companies entering the tender already have established and proven 8x8 designs which have been exported. And now some more reputable accounts have pretty much been hinting that Pars Alpha will be chosen, but who knows.

Altay has been a total catastrophy since being handed over to BMC.
Leo modernization by BMC pretty much also a catastrophy now they are supposed to be the endstation of assembly, who knows why( ) yet therehas been zero movement for years now.

BMC Engine is a seperate entity, for good reasons.

It was always behind Otokar and FNSS, we unnecessarly lost who knows how much time by trying to appease yandas businessmen for now almost a decade.

Offtopic but remember how our government tried to integrate BMC into the project for the engines for Kaan? And how the partnership with Rolls Royce fell into water because of inclusion of said company in the agreements.

BMC Motor seems to run better than BMC itself. Honestly i wouldn't be surprised to see if Tosyalı hands over the heavy armored division to FNSS (specifically now it is all owned by Nurol), and continues with light armored (4x4) and motor division.

BMC's entire heavy armored capability relies on the existence of the Tank Palet Factory. They haven't introduced anything new to the establishment, nor upgraded it. Simply free roaming over it and leeching know-how and killing factory traditions.

If TSK comes to a point at relying wholely on private companies for field maintenance and field repairs or inspection of regular maintenance is had to be done by third parties and leading to an inadequeacy it is all because Sancak. He is clearly a traitor and others whom has green lighted / cheered / lobbied his acquisition of Tank Palet.

 

[Sanchez]

Qataris can't be too happy with the current situation either. A new position where tank palet is returned to MoD should be considered where strategically important parts of the company are nationalized. Even their truck and bus division is near death bed.

We are at a situation now where Aselsan is actively upgrading M60T1s and working on Chilean Leopards, but work is near non existent on Leo2 TIYK. Leo2 TIYK is similar in scope to these two programs, but is supposed to be handled by BMC as main contractor.

Meanwhile our tankers still use M48s. It's a situation where noone is happy, not even the pro gov pundits, but there are no solutions being worked on. It's a nightmare.

 

[Khagan1923]

Qataris can't be too happy with the current situation either. A new position where tank palet is returned to MoD should be considered where strategically important parts of the company are nationalized. Even their truck and bus division is near death bed.

We are at a situation now where Aselsan is actively upgrading M60T1s and working on Chilean Leopards, but work is near non existent on Leo2 TIYK. Leo2 TIYK is similar in scope to these two programs, but is supposed to be handled by BMC as main contractor.

Meanwhile our tankers still use M48s. It's a situation where noone is happy, not even the pro gov pundits, but there are no solutions being worked on. It's a nightmare.

Who knows what promises they made to the qataris and especially higher ups inside the akp. Qatari ministers talking about ordering 100 Altays before there even is a serial production line in 2018. I would love to have a recording of all the behind closed doors meetings Sancak had with ministers.

BMC is pretty much a rugpull. Sancak filled his pockets with qatari and government money and then made off after even the most hardcore delusional people inside the government were slowly realizing that nothing was actually happening inside BMC. And no one can touch him because he will make the government look like the corrupt incompetent apparatus it presently is.

I mentioned this once, Qatar has a stake in the company why is BMC not their main supplier of armored vehicles? Should they not be interest in the Altug project?!

Where is their SUV/Truck they showed off years ago?

Congrats they redesigned Amazon and Vuran, Kirpi 2 happened thanks to major input by the TSK. Altay was done 90% by Otokar before it was taken away from them. Firtina is a Army project and now suddenly they act as if they designed, developed and produced it as their own baby.

Their trucks are way behind of some other Turkish companies that have entered the scene the last few years. Bus division is pretty much dead as you said, the competition blows them out of the water.

The same Otokar akp aligned trolls were labeling traitors is selling its vehicles like butter left and right, the same for FNSS.

 

[Strong AI]

I don't know if these images are really new, but here we go.

Images from the field tests of the ALTAY Main Battle Tank

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874032605777264810

 

[Sanchez]

I don't know if these images are really new, but here we go.

Images from the field tests of the ALTAY Main Battle Tank

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1874032605777264810

They are, shared by BMC today.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1873986150190506209

 

[Ryder]

BMC is like Manchester United.

A blatant trainwreck that even throwing money into it will not fix its problems.

 

[boredaf]

BMC is like Manchester United.

A blatant trainwreck that even throwing money into it will not fix its problems.

Has anyone seen Ten Hag lately? We are sure he is nowhere near BMC, right?

Jokes aside, if they can't deliver new Altays before 2025 ends, they should be kicked out of the project and told to fuck off. It won't happen, I know, but I really wish it happened long time ago.

 

[Strong AI]

Is this the first time that drones are mentioned?

{#ElectronicWarfare}
#AKKOR redefines the survivability of armored vehicles against antitank guided missiles & rockets and drones, offering a revolutionary solution to modern threats.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1877642426531119494

 

[Strong AI]

by the very end of the second half of this year, our main battle tank will be out of serial production and delivered to our heroic army.

So first it was end of 2025, then like August 2025, and now again end of 2025.

I think those two tanks, which are currently being tested, will be put in service by August and the real serial production will start end of 2025.

 

[Sanchez]

And finally some comprehensive updates on Altay production.

"Euro 3.6 Billion worth ALTAY Main Battle Tank (AMT) Serial Production Contract signed on November 2018, the Turkish Land Forces Command will be provided with the New ALTAY Main Battle Tank and the New ALTAY Training Vehicles (such as the Driver Training Tank) and different types of simulators (both complete tank simulators) for user training as well as a large number of training purposes under the Integrated Logistics Support (ILS) Package, BMC DEFENSE, which will also deliver simulators and mock-ups for sub-systems piece by piece, has made the New ALTAY, which it designed in line with new requirements in line with the demands of the Turkish Armed Forces, ready for mass production in Arifiye.

As it will be remembered, BMC DEFENSE started the production of the New ALTAY AMT in Arifiye and delivered the first two New ALTAY AMTs equipped with the Korean Power Group, which it produced by spending 10,000 hours of labor, to the Turkish Land Forces for testing purposes with a ceremony held on April 23, 2023.

A series of improvement works are being carried out on these two new production New ALTAY AMTs within the framework of the feedback obtained after nearly two years of survivability, endurance and firing tests and the new requirements requested by the end user. These two New ALTAY AMTs, which are being brought to the final configuration that will form the basis for Mass Production, are expected to enter the service of the Turkish Land Forces in mid-2025. BMC DEFENSE is also working on the production of additional New ALTAY AMTs in Arifiye until the new production facility to be established in Ankara under the ALTAY Serial Production Phase is ready. Meanwhile, General Selçuk BAYRAKTAROĞLU, Commander of the Turkish Land Forces, announced that one of the New ALTAY AMTs took part in the filming of the TV series "Black Beret" during his speech at the delivery ceremony of 100 TTZA with indigenous engines produced by BMC on Friday, January 10, 2025.

The first deliveries are expected to start in the second half of 2025 in the New ALTAY AMT Serial Production, which will be carried out in the new armored vehicle factory in Ankara, which is currently under construction and equipping activities and is expected to be activated in mid-2025. Under the New ALTAY AMT Serial Production Phase, the production rate is planned to reach 8 units per month depending on the learning curve, and in this context, the production rate is expected to be realized as 1+1+2+4+8 in the first phase.

At a previous press conference, it was shared with the press members that BMC DEFENSE Ankara Armored Vehicle Factory is planning a production capacity of up to 100 tanks per year, 20-30 of which are planned for the export market. In the first phase, the South Korean Power Group will be used in the new ALTAY AMTs. The Korean Power Pack consists of Doosan's 12-cylinder (V12), 27.2 liter, 1,500bg DV27K Diesel Engine and SNT Dynamics' EST15K Automatic Transmission (6 forward and 3 reverse gears) with hydraulic torque converter.

The BATU Power Pack, which is being developed by BMC Power with national facilities, is planned to start its official test campaign on the New ALTAY AMT in 2026, and after extensive tests that will last approximately two years, the BATU Power Pack is planned to be included in the new production New ALTAY AMTs to be released from the mass production line starting from 2028. The BATU Power Pack will consist of a 12-cylinder, V-type, water-cooled turbo-diesel V12 diesel engine with a maximum power of at least 1,500bg (1,110kW) and a maximum torque of at least 4,600Nm, a cross-drive automatic transmission (with 6 forward and 2 reverse gears) with steering and braking functions in the 'U' linkage (U-Drive) type to be paired with it, and subsystems related to the cooling package.

For more:

Yeni ALTAY AMT Seri Üretime Hazır Hale Geldi!

9 Kasım 2018 tarihinde imzalanan Euro3.6 Milyar değerindeki ALTAY Ana Muharebe Tankı (AMT) Seri Üretim Sözleşmesi altında Türk Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı’na Yeni ALTAY Ana Muharebe Tankı ile Entegre Lojistik Destek (ELD) Paketi altında kullanıcı eğitimlerinin yanı sıra çok sayıda eğitim...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[boredaf]

A series of improvement works are being carried out on these two new production New ALTAY AMTs within the framework of the feedback obtained after nearly two years of survivability, endurance and firing tests and the new requirements requested by the end user.

I wonder what kind of changes military requested. I hope, after almost 3 years of watching tanks being hunted by drones, some of those include at a way to give Altay at least some protection from drones.

 

[Strong AI]

I wonder what kind of changes military requested. I hope, after almost 3 years of watching tanks being hunted by drones, some of those include at a way to give Altay at least some protection from drones.

Aselsan claims that AKKOR is effective against drones, posted it some days ago.

 

[boredaf]

Aselsan claims that AKKOR is effective against drones, posted it some days ago.

Then that would be good news indeed, I hope they'll post some videos of it.

 

[Fairon]

And finally some comprehensive updates on Altay production.



For more:

Yeni ALTAY AMT Seri Üretime Hazır Hale Geldi!

9 Kasım 2018 tarihinde imzalanan Euro3.6 Milyar değerindeki ALTAY Ana Muharebe Tankı (AMT) Seri Üretim Sözleşmesi altında Türk Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı’na Yeni ALTAY Ana Muharebe Tankı ile Entegre Lojistik Destek (ELD) Paketi altında kullanıcı eğitimlerinin yanı sıra çok sayıda eğitim...

www.defenceturkey.com

Like every Altay news, we have new questions now after getting answers for the previous ones.

So BATU engine integration will be in 2028 now. Previously expectation for tests to be end in early 2027. Which is fine, they are doing a great job really.

Also I didn't understand below;
" the production rate is planned to reach 8 units per month depending on the learning curve, and in this context, the production rate is expected to be realized as 1+1+2+4+8 in the first phase."

Is this montly production rate by year? If that is the case, that means first batch of 250 tanks will be produced in 6 years. I guess production speed planned to be increase after BATU integration.(40 Korean powerpacks will be used in first 2 years with this rate) I am not sure which would be good, ordering more Korean powerpacks and getting Altay in much faster rate or waiting BATU and have more Altay with BATU powerpack?(and start producing the next batch much earlier)

Or this production rate is just for new factory and the production will continue in Arifiye in the meantime?

Also,

"Meanwhile, General Selçuk BAYRAKTAROĞLU, Commander of the Turkish Land Forces, announced that one of the New ALTAY AMTs took part in the filming of the TV series "Black Beret" during his speech at the delivery ceremony of 100 TTZA with indigenous engines produced by BMC on Friday, January 10, 2025."

Is this one of the reason for delay on the delivery date?(From August to end of the year)

Anyway, again like every Altay related situation, we will see when we will see.

 

[Sanchez]

ordering more Korean powerpacks

From what I understood by the wording, we'll need to order more Korean powerpacks to keep the production of Altay ongoing until Batu powerpack is ready. Number should be around 60-70 I think. Expect it to increase to 100 at least.

 

[hugh]

From what I understood by the wording, we'll need to order more Korean powerpacks to keep the production of Altay ongoing until Batu powerpack is ready. Number should be around 60-70 I think. Expect it to increase to 100 at least.

Assuming we have a steady supply of Korean powerpack, getting Altay ready for serial production and producing it in numbers is much more important than equipping them with BATU engines. BMC Power should have adequate time and opportunity to work out the kinks of the engine.

 

[Fairon]

From what I understood by the wording, we'll need to order more Korean powerpacks to keep the production of Altay ongoing until Batu powerpack is ready. Number should be around 60-70 I think. Expect it to increase to 100 at least.

Thats what I understood at first but if the production rate will be "1+1+2+4+8" per month each year(like 1st year 1 per month, second year the same, third year 2 per month etc), than 40 powerpack should feed the line for about 3 years unless I misunderstand it completely. Production will be much, much more slower than desired sure but there won't be a need for additional Korean powerpacks.(off course considering the BATU will be ready at 2028)