TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[begturan]

Friends, shooting down drones isn't difficult; the challenge is detecting and tracking them. There's not a single battlefield-proven system in the world, including the ones we've developed. Currently, the most practical solution is to train soldiers to intercept drones with shotguns and then launch counter-drone attacks.

Detecting and stopping bird-sized drones that use fiber optic cables and approach from low altitudes with automated systems is currently near impossible.

All of these weapons and detection systems have been tested and developed in the field, and this will continue until the best solution is found.

 

[UkroTurk]

Nothing at all, I only mentioned that because I saw the Sarp 25, and I believe being able to reload from within the tank if necessary (even if just one more case) could be important. Plus, I trust Aselsan with their turrets and electronics more than I trust Unirobotics with their turret and 25 mm ATOM is ready now. Oh, and Venom is not that much lighter than 25 mm cannons Aselsan mentions in the brochure but I believe its recoil is far less than others.

25mm is very strong caliber, its recoil much more than 30x113. Also 30 x113 mm gives more ammunition capacity which is very important for CIWS.

Venom cannon really has less recoil and I don't think it weighs 1 ton!

 

[boredaf]

25mm is very strong caliber, its recoil much more than 30x113. Also 30 x113 mm gives more ammunition capacity which is very important for CIWS.

Venom cannon really has less recoil and I don't think it weighs 1 ton!

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

 

[UkroTurk]

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

I meant also turret.
25mm KBA or variants have very low rate of fire for CIWS. 30 mm VENOMnis really rapidö

25x137mm vs 30x113mm
İnstead of 100 25mm round, you could have min 150 30mm.

25mm cartridge has higher velocity, has more internal pressure. 25mm is from IFVs.
30x113 for aircrafts.
Totally two different calibers.

 

[AzeriTank]

Can there be a concept such as land version of loyal wingman, some UGV's coupled with tanks which can carry some sensors and anti UAV weapons? Maybe something like OTOKAR Alkar UGV?

Roketsan has already started to use that concept as you can see in this video.

25mm RWS weight is 1 ton, which is not bad. i wish they could put it on top of Altay, or atleast 30/113mm rws. It can destroy a lot of FPV drones by getting info from the radar in a tank. in case of multiple attacks at the same time, APS could help it. I also wish they add more APS, may be 2 front and 2 behind, but today, there was a news that APS system in the front could damage cameras after its lunch, so at least i know now the reason.

 

[AzeriTank]

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

30/113 is not longer than the 25mm. also the production capacity is important, almost all big weapon producers in Turkiye is able to make 25mm guns, but so far only Canik making 30/113(soon Aselsan Konya) and production capacity is mentioned recently that 500 a year and they want to increase it to 1000

 

[Saithan]

We only have capacity to produce 500 bullets a year ? I hope that'w not true.

At least it seems we all agree that tanks need a compact rws to kill drones.

How much space is needed for a automated or semi automated rws ?

 

[UkroTurk]

We only have capacity to produce 500 bullets a year ? I hope that'w not true.

At least it seems we all agree that tanks need a compact rws to kill drones.

How much space is needed for a automated or semi automated rws ?

He meant production of cannon, not bullets( ammunition)

Btw Trakon turret plus 30mm cannon plus ammo would weight max 300 kg

 

[boredaf]

Btw Trakon turret plus 30mm cannon plus ammo would weight max 300 kg

Trakon alone weighs less than 400 kg, with Venom but without ammunition less than 550 kg, would be close to 650 with ammo. Lighter than Sarp, but not as light as that.

https://admin.unirobotics.com.tr/assets/cddd00f1-3d87-494c-83bf-9dcb42332943

25mm KBA or variants have very low rate of fire for CIWS. 30 mm VENOMnis really rapid

You don't need a thousand rounds a minute while using air burst rounds against plastic drones that are not particularly fast. A drone with top speed of several hundred kms an hour would barely move before a 25mm ATOM bullet that can move 1.1 km a second. Besides, I'm looking at wikipedia and the difference between them doesn't seem all that much? Even 100 rounds per minute would be more than enough against cheap drones.

 

[Strong AI]

I am in favour of a dedicated tank support vehicle against drones. Could be also an UGV. Like for example one for every four tanks.

 

[TR_123456]

I am in favour of a dedicated tank support vehicle against drones. Could be also an UGV. Like for example one for every four tanks.

Why when the mbt itself has counter meassures like a 12.7 heavy machine gun?
Btw,the Altay mbt is not a stand alone system.

 

[Strong AI]

Why when the mbt itself has counter meassures like a 12.7 heavy machine gun?
Btw,the Altay mbt is not a stand alone system.

Because imo the Altay itself wouldn't be able to carry enough ammunition for that task. Also you could place more sensors for detection on the supporting vehicle.

 

[boredaf]

Why when the mbt itself has counter meassures like a 12.7 heavy machine gun?

Machine guns are not good at countering drones mate, you have to spray and pray that you'll hit the drone. You can see it in videos from Ukraine, most effective things have been shotguns for soldiers and equivalent of that would be airburst rounds for a tank. Especially as drones are getting more numerous and tanks are getting attack by multiple small drones one after another and this is before countries start investing properly in swarm capabilities.

Even birdshot is more than enough to take drones down (range is a problem, of course), so, an airburst round creating a cloud of a thousand small steel or tungsten pieces would be more than enough.

 

[UkroTurk]

guns are not good at countering drones mate, you have to spray

But you obsessed with slow cannon and
heavy big caliber

air burst rounds against plastic drones that are not particularly fast.

Anyway I quit and give microphone to General Dynamics

Abrams X with 30x113mm cannon.

Americans know their shits unlike the Brits

ABramsX

AbramsX MBT Main Battle Tank Technology Demonstrator - United States Description Technical Data Specifications

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[boredaf]

But you obsessed with slow cannon and
heavy big caliber

Anyway I quit and give microphone to General Dynamics

View attachment 77898

Abrams X with 30x113mm cannon.

View attachment 77899
Americans know their shits unlike the Brits

ABramsX

AbramsX MBT Main Battle Tank Technology Demonstrator - United States Description Technical Data Specifications

www.armyrecognition.com

First of all mate, that is one nonsensical segway, how is 25mm cannons are in any way related to what I said in that comment? You might need to reread what I wrote there. Second, I'm not obsessed with anything, you just keep giving false information about Venom and I'm correcting it. You are the one that is obsessing over it if anything.

"Slow" cannons fire almost as fast as Venom with higher exit velocity, cannons themselves are not heavier even though the turret is. You are right about the bullets but 25 mm being bigger would just allow it to pack more fragments. And you do not need to send hundreds of bullets when you are using airburst rounds, even the slowest of the cannons Aselsan mentions fires over 100 bullets per minute. If a gunner cannot hit a drone with 100 airburst rounds a minute then they should be demoted to peeling potatos and nothing else.

Venom would work just as well, I never said it wouldn't, except there is no way in fucking hell Unirobitcs turret is as good as Aselsan's Sarp. If we are to trust the lives of our soldiers and our investments in our equipment to one company, I'd choose Aselsan over Unirobotics every day of the week.

Also, the gun you're simping for was made by Brits, so, maybe they do know something.