TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Sanchez]

whats the point of navalizing all those helicopters? There is no point in the naval T-625 when you have a naval version of the T-629, or a naval version of T-629 when you got ATAK-2, creating a naval version of the helicopter is not simple and Turkey only has a need of up to 50 helicopters max, and export market is already pretty tiny and already dominated by the West.

T625 is Gökbey and unless we are not buying more Seahawks(not happening) or are building a Seahawk replacement(we're not), a navalized T625 like the AW159 Wildcat is a must for the navy.

 

[Baryshx]

3 engine config would completely change the entire gearbox and transmission, which is basically building a new helicopter.

Is this a practical thing? Within this class and type, what kind of engine configuration do their counterparts use.

 

[Aqerdf]

AW101, CH-53, Super Frelon, Z-8, A313A, and maybe more.

It complicates r&d, maintenance, overall cost i guess. But you can somewhat compensate with common engine architecture among your helicopter fleet, if you standardise this engine for your helicopter fleet.

For this configuration, it's necessity comes from either having limited engine portfolio or having need for beyond normal power for an helicopter.

I think if TEI-T700 or Ukr. TV3 or if there is some easily reachable PT6 variation are couldn't purchased, we should go for this config.

Or delaying the hole T9XX series and only going for T6XX series, for now.

(well, other than Forestry's T925 order. Which can be handled since their numbers are not that much and they're conducting civilian duties so acquiring engines for them in limited numbers is easier...)

 

[hawk21]

Generally, developing a reliable transmission is a lot more difficult than developing a new engine. A triple engine transmission would be an even bigger challenge.

I think it would be easier to develop a more powerful derivative of TS1400 and use it in a dual engine 13 ton helicopter than taking the TS1400 and developing a 3-engine transmission for it.

The NH-90 uses 2x 2380 shp Adour or 2x 2269 shp T700 engines.

TS1400 is at 1400-1600 shp power currently and is relatively far along in testing. It shouldn't be hard for TAI to come up with a derivative with 50% larger thrust (~ 2400 shp).

That will solve the problem of T-925's engines.

 

[Zafer]

There must b a reason why there are 3 engine helicopters.

 

[hawk21]

There must b a reason why there are 3 engine helicopters.

sure. If a 3 engine configuration can help put the helicopter into service earlier, then by all means go for it.

 

[Merzifonlu]

IMO, we can solve the power package problem of the T925&T929 with the domestic engine and domestic transmission we have available. We can use 4 x TS-1400 engines. We can position 2 engine on the right side and overlapping each other. The engines are interconnected by the existing domestic transmission. The same will happen on the left side, of course. With this application, we can have a total power package of 5600 HP. The only problem would be that this power pack is a bit heavy, about 150 kg.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1753482449370451987

 

[Sanchez]

Uuu great news. Wonder if a modernization of the old birds is planned. AF300 is... old.

 

[Sanchez]

Gökbey had its deliveries delayed for how long I can't even remember

First T625 was to be delivered to gendarme in Q1 2023 with all three being delivered by end of 2023. Current delay is 1 year, as still no official deliveries to gendarme has been made and no news about the third being built. Tests are continuing and in november it was announced that 3 T625 prototypes have passed 700 flight hours.

 

[boredaf]

First T625 was to be delivered to gendarme in Q1 2023 with all three being delivered by end of 2023. Current delay is 1 year, as still no official deliveries to gendarme has been made and no news about the third being built. Tests are continuing and in november it was announced that 3 T625 prototypes have passed 700 flight hours.

On top of that, we are over a year since last T-70 delivery and almost a year since last T-129 delivery for the army.

 

[Kaan Azman]

T-625, T-629, T-925 and T-929 all must be navalized. If we manage to pull that off I think we will be good for the future. I think T-625 and T-925 will be a good combination for the backbone of our armed forces. Even if it's not the familiar S-70 I think T-925 will be a good replacement. Looking at the future of our helicopter fleet I see a lot of similarities to the Italian one with a couple of differences. Until the national platforms listed above and especially T-925 are ready I think we should try everything possible to keep our S-70/T-70 fleet operational trough upgrades, retrofits etc.

The biggest thing I am worried about is the low number of CH-47's. When we had the chance we should've used the opportunity to purchase more of them. There are some alternatives in Russia, but I don't think it will be a wise move to purchase anything Russian at this point.

T629 I would doubt but big yes for T929. You have a greater space in terms of payload for powerful radars and light cruise missiles (ÇAKIR, KUZGUN TJ...)

 

[Radko]

On top of that, we are over a year since last T-70 delivery and almost a year since last T-129 delivery for the army.

Not all deliveries are made public...

 

[boredaf]

Not all deliveries are made public...

So, there are posts when army gets missiles, trucks, drones, even when coast guard gets simple boats even when helicopters are being delivered to other countries, but no posts when it comes to our deliveries? That's just really, really weird.

 

[Heartbang]

but no posts when it comes to our deliveries? That's just really, really weird.

There are evil mf'ers on both sides of the world who track and count this sort of stuff, and update their plans accordingly.
I think its smart, and this kind of obfuscation should be done more.

 

[boredaf]

There are evil mf'ers on both sides of the world who track and count this sort of stuff, and update their plans accordingly.
I think its smart, and this kind of obfuscation should be done more.

What obfuscation? Just because there has been no news doesn't mean there is a clever ruse to hide things. Let's not pretend like our companies and government haven't been advertising every little thing for years now, including any delivery/acquisition, big and small. This also includes when Tusaş made T-70 and T-129 deliveries to our military. Let's not start pretending like they have suddenly decided that these deliveries were super duper important and should be kept secret lol

And do you honestly thing people who track these sorts of deliveries really look at tweets?

 

[Heartbang]

Let's not pretend like our companies and government haven't been advertising every little thing for years now, including any delivery/acquisition, big and small.

You got a point. I was advocating for them to NOT advertise those.
But we have elections to "win" and such. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And do you honestly thing people who track these sorts of deliveries really look at tweets?

They use every single source they can, including tweets. OSINT is a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Osman]

Do you really think that tsk and defence companies are making every single delivery public? Then you can find easily our inventory by googling. How many bora and kaplan missiles how many hgk/lgk and kgk do we have for example?

 

[boredaf]

Do you really think that tsk and defence companies are making every single delivery public? Then you can find easily our inventory by googling. How many bora and kaplan missiles how many hgk/lgk and kgk do we have for example?

Talk about false equivalence, missiles are kept in storage, helicopters are not and their numbers are never shared. There have been numerous posts about all kinds of deliveries, including helicopters with numbers mentioned. On top of that, we are not putting these helicopters in some secret base that is hidden from everyone. Not mentioning any deliveries doesn't help in keeping them away from prying eyes, satellites exist you know?

Why is it so hard to accept that TAI hasn't been delivering T-70 in over a year and T-129 in almost a year? What proof is there that they've actually been making these deliveries in secret, while beforehand they were merrily announcing them?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Do you really think that tsk and defence companies are making every single delivery public? Then you can find easily our inventory by googling. How many bora and kaplan missiles how many hgk/lgk and kgk do we have for example?

Some stratejik systems can be secret like MRBM numbers but armored vihacles and tanks or small anri tank missiles are open to public .