Azerbaijan Armenia Tensions

TheInsider

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If I may only ask the turkish members here , no offence intended only for discussion

would turkish people risk a destructive war with Iran that may cripple the turkish economy for years over Azerbaijan ?
I would not only approve this move but I would also literally enlist to fight if need be. There are 4 things Turkiye should fight at all costs even if it brings ruin to our country. The first one is obviously defending against an invasion. The second one is protecting our rights in the Sea of İslands, the East Mediterranean, and Cyprus. The third one is don't let PKK form a terror state near our borders. The fourth one is protecting Azerbaijan from any hostile force be it Russia or Iran.
 

Fuzuli NL

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In such a case, even if governmental support is rhetorical and political, a lot of people would flow volunteering to defend the brotherly country of Azerbaijan.
 

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Armenians at it again, another accusation of "genocide" directed at Azerbaijan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/comments/yrnaly
Nothing but lies out of these people.
The word genocide had a great effect on the public until the Armenians overused it and rendered it useless.
They cried genocide when Azerbaijan was liberating their land from them being the occupiers and they used washed-up celebtards like Cher and Serj Tankian from SOAD to make genocide propaganda.
What I keep thinking is, since they will always cry genocide, what if Azerbaijan really attempted that? Will that change anything?
But it's not in our culture. We slaughter the enemy face to face. We don't need genocide. We don't fight dirty.
 

Putin's 3 Day War

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The word genocide had a great effect on the public until the Armenians overused it and rendered it useless.
They cried genocide when Azerbaijan was liberating their land from them being the occupiers and they used washed-up celebtards like Cher and Serj Tankian from SOAD to make genocide propaganda.
What I keep thinking is, since they will always cry genocide, what if Azerbaijan really attempted that? Will that change anything?
But it's not in our culture. We slaughter the enemy face to face. We don't need genocide. We don't fight dirty.

Its good because the more these liars over use it the more it works to dismantle the past 100 years of slanderous racially motivated lies.

Its a similar theme with the west pushing nonstop propaganda about Turkeys genocide on the Kurds. Absolute nonsense, complete fabricated lies.
 

TR_123456

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If I may only ask the turkish members here , no offence intended only for discussion

would turkish people risk a destructive war with Iran that may cripple the turkish economy for years over Azerbaijan ?
It has nothing to do with economy,it is in our interest that Iran stays as it is.
So,no war with Iran unless it attacks Azerbaijan.
 

Kedikesenfare

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If I may only ask the turkish members here , no offence intended only for discussion

would turkish people risk a destructive war with Iran that may cripple the turkish economy for years over Azerbaijan ?

The Turkish-Iranian border has barely changed in almost 400 years. It is the oldest border line of the Middle East and one of the oldest in the world.

You can draw your own conclusions from this.
 

Putin's 3 Day War

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The Turkish-Iranian border has barely changed in almost 400 years. It is the oldest border line of the Middle East and one of the oldest in the world.

You can draw your own conclusions from this.

Geography made any large scale war untenable. The Ottomans used to march thousands of miles from istanbul across deserts and mountains deep into Iran only for the safavids to run from the battle. As a result any serious endeavour wasn't sustainable.

However, technology is very different now.
 

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1668217389531.png
Here is a list of countries which diplomatically supported AZARBAIJAN during 2020 conflict in UN at Resolution 62/243, titled "The Situation in the Occupied Territories of Azerbaijan"
greenin favour
redagainst
yellowabstained
blueabsent
whitenon voting


The resolution reaffirmed "continued respect and support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity" of Azerbaijan "within its internationally recognized borders", demanded the "immediate, complete and unconditional withdrawal of all Armenian forces from all the occupied territories of Azerbaijan"

you see, the resolution is just a REAFFIRMATION of the international law and was nothing controversal!

and yet, almost the whole EUROPE supposedly 'the biggest champion of the international law and liberal political order' suspiciously abstaining from supporting one of the core principle of liberal world order, which is support and respect for 'sovereignty and territorial integrity' of a recognized state.

While on the other hand, the countries that voted in favour are overwhelmingly muslim majority countries!

my point being, as much as economics and national security factors in geopolitical decision making, socio-cultural factor has its own share.

As an student of social sciences, i saw a tendency, in academia as well as in other places, of some ultra modern and ultra secular people who like to think geopolitics and foreign policy decision should only be determined by economic and security interest while completely discounting the socio-cultural factor.

Not to mention how unrealistic this is but it's like, these people has some inferiority complex of islam being part of their identity as if any mention of it by definition make them look backward and uncivilized!
thus, they want to completely discount the socio cultural factor of muslim majority countries in geopolitics to be perceived as 'liberal' and 'secular' and approved by the so called 'civilized world'!

In reality, geopolitical and foreign policy decision should take into account all three economic, security and socio cultural factors as well as balance and navigate between them according to the relative situation.
 
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Putin's 3 Day War

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View attachment 50395 Here is a list of countries which diplomatically supported AZARBAIJAN during 2020 conflict in UN at Resolution 62/243, titled "The Situation in the Occupied Territories of Azerbaijan"
greenin favour
redagainst
yellowabstained
blueabsent
whitenon voting


The resolution reaffirmed "continued respect and support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity" of Azerbaijan "within its internationally recognized borders", demanded the "immediate, complete and unconditional withdrawal of all Armenian forces from all the occupied territories of Azerbaijan"

you see, the resolution is just a REAFFIRMATION of the international law and was nothing controversal!

and yet, almost the whole EUROPE supposedly 'the biggest champion of the international law and liberal political order' suspiciously abstaining from supporting one of the core principle of liberal world order, which is support and respect for 'sovereignty and territorial integrity' of a recognized state.

While on the other hand, the countries that voted in favour are overwhelmingly muslim majority countries!

my point being, as much as economics and national security factors in geopolitical decision making, socio-cultural factor has its own share.

As an student of social sciences, i saw a tendency, in academia as well as in other places, of some ultra modern and ultra secular people who like to think geopolitics and foreign policy decision should only be determined by economic and security interest while completely discounting the socio-cultural factor.

Not to mention how unrealistic this is but it's like, these people has some inferiority complex of islam being part of their identity as if any mention of it by definition make them look backward and uncivilized!
thus, they want to completely discount the socio cultural factor of muslim majority countries in geopolitics to be perceived as 'liberal' and 'secular' and approved by the so called 'civilized world'!


In reality, geopolitical decision should take into account all three economic, security and socio cultural factors as well as balance and navigate between them according to the relative situation.

To be fair that would the rational position to take. When you follow ideology in the sense that we are going to support someone because they are the same religion as us you will find yourself embarrassed time and time again. Turks have experienced this, god knows how many times the OIC has denounced Turkey, or even backward Taliban coming to Turkey to promote Kurdish separatism within Turkish lands.

Even in 1974 there were probably just as many if not more Muslim majority countries supporting the greek genocide of Turkish cypriot Muslims then there was Muslim nations supporting the Turkish Cypriots right to defend themselves. Egypt and Syria were big supporters of the greeks back then and for the most part still are.

As far as Islam is concerned, in general some of the most backward cultures on earth tend to be Islamic like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. Even if you take the most forward thinking nations, nations that hold muslim majorities, not one could be compared to South Korea in terms of science and development. Let alone a Germany or a USA.

Of course everything is relative, from the 9th up to the 17th century the strong argument would have been the wider Islamic world is ahead of everyone else. At worst its at the top with the great powers.

But today Islamic civilisation has really been reduced to 3rd world status. For example Muslims being wiped out by orthodox Yugoslavs. Russians crushing countless Muslims and still occupying their lands today, ironically Muslims are some of the biggest shills for Russia today. China putting Muslims in concentration camps and ridiculously most of the Muslim world supporting it.

The Americans come and invade Iraq and blow away over a million Arabs and there is nothing 300 million Arabs can do about it, contrary the rich Arab nations invest their money into america. And who can forget whats happening to the Palestinians.

So Islamic civilisation has been on a 300 year decline really. That naturally creates an insecurity complex among Muslims, maybe only the Turks of Turkey were the only Muslims not to have been colonised and they can thank a secular minded guy for that. The Iranians were jointly occupied by Russia and Britain for a period of time.

However when it comes to socio-cultural you are right that it shouldn't be ignored, because europeans and westerners/Christians tend to be unified in their opposition to Muslims and non-white people. While Muslims for whatever reason cannot unite with each other in any real meaningful way.

Russia failing in Ukraine could open the opportunity for a wider Turkic world and in general when the Turks rise, they bring the religion and its adherents up with them.
 

Afif

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To be fair that would the rational position to take. When you follow ideology in the sense that we are going to support someone because they are the same religion as us you will find yourself embarrassed time and time again. Turks have experienced this, god knows how many times the OIC has denounced Turkey, or even backward Taliban coming to Turkey to promote Kurdish separatism within Turkish lands.

Even in 1974 there were probably just as many if not more Muslim majority countries supporting the greek genocide of Turkish cypriot Muslims then there was Muslim nations supporting the Turkish Cypriots right to defend themselves. Egypt and Syria were big supporters of the greeks back then and for the most part still are.

Of course everything is relative, from the 9th up to the 17th century the strong argument would have been the wider Islamic world is ahead of everyone else. At worst its at the top with the great powers.

But today Islamic civilisation has really been reduced to 3rd world status. For example Muslims being wiped out by orthodox Yugoslavs. Russians crushing countless Muslims and still occupying their lands today, ironically Muslims are some of the biggest shills for Russia today. China putting Muslims in concentration camps and ridiculously most of the Muslim world supporting it.

The Americans come and invade Iraq and blow away over a million Arabs and there is nothing 300 million Arabs can do about it, contrary the rich Arab nations invest their money into america. And who can forget whats happening to the Palestinians.

So Islamic civilisation has been on a 300 year decline really. That naturally creates an insecurity complex among Muslims, maybe only the Turks of Turkey were the only Muslims not to have been colonised and they can thank a secular minded guy for that. The Iranians were jointly occupied by Russia and Britain for a period of time.

However when it comes to socio-cultural you are right that it shouldn't be ignored, because europeans and westerners/Christians tend to be unified in their opposition to Muslims and non-white people. While Muslims for whatever reason cannot unite with each other in any real meaningful way.

Russia failing in Ukraine could open the opportunity for a wider Turkic world and in general when the Turks rise, they bring the religion and its adherents up with them.
Thank you for you reply.

How it would be the rational position to take?
And I never said you should support somebody because of the same religion no matter what!

What I said is, "In reality, geopolitical decision should take into account all three economic, security and socio cultural factors as well as balance and navigate between them according to the relative situation."

Overall I agree that 80 percent of the muslim's world problem is self created and islamic world was in decline for last three or four hundred years. Of course our adversaries pray on our weakness.
But I believe after a long long time, this situation started to change bit by bit and I am hopeful and focus on our own development.
As far as Islam is concerned, in general some of the most backward cultures on earth tend to be Islamic like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. Even if you take the most forward thinking nations, nations that hold muslim majorities, not one could be compared to South Korea in terms of science and development. Let alone a Germany or a USA.
Well there is good amount of backward cultures is also christian!
When christian militias chopped the heads of muslims in central african republic you don't hear any outcry in the media!
You only sea isis videos!
There is some christian african countries which are as worst for women as afghanistan. But again you don't read much about in the world media!
There is clear bias here that cannot be ignored!
So Islamic civilisation has been on a 300 year decline really. That naturally creates an insecurity complex among Muslims,
I am completely sympathetic to general people's insecurity complex.
But I hate those 'intellectuals' who wanna cut of the head instead of saving it!
Yes, there is a tumor in head! But intellectuals are supposed to be like surgeons!
It is there duty to hold their there nerves and perform a successful surgery, thus the head can be saved! Not cut it off because they are feeling insecure or nervous!
maybe only the Turks of Turkey were the only Muslims not to have been colonised and they can thank a secular minded guy for that.
Of course, when it comes to the very survival of turkey the first one to thank after God is GAZI MUSTAFA KEMAL. And then the brave turkish people.

However, you should also thanks a good amount of 'non turk muslims' who fought for you! They were indispensable part of some of the significant battles in world War one that, any different outcome in any single of those battle could have change the calculations radically how turkish war of independence would be fought later.


Any other muslim country didn't enjoyed any similar advantage.

You should not misunderstand that perspective!
It does not decrease the greatness of GAZI MUSTAFA KEMAL a bit.
nor does it downplay the sacrifice of the brave turkish people.
 
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Putin's 3 Day War

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Thank you for you reply!

How it would be the rational position to take?
And I never said you should support somebody because of the same religion no matter what!

What I said is, "In reality, geopolitical decision should take into account all three economic, security and socio cultural factors as well as balance and navigate between them according to the relative situation."

Overall I agree that 80 percent of the muslim's world problem is self created and islamic world was in decline for last three or four hundred years. Of course our adversaries pray on our weakness.
But I believe after a long long time, this situation started to change bit by bit and I am hopeful and focus on our own development.

Well there is good amount of backward cultures is also christian!
When christian militias chopped the heads of muslims in central african republic you don't hear any outcry in the media!
You only sea isis videos!
There is some christian african countries which as worst for women as afghanistan. But again you don't read much about in the world media!
There is clear bias here that cannot be ignored!

I am completely sympathetic to general people's insecurity complex.
But I hate those 'intellectuals' who wanna cut of the head instead of saving it!
Yes, there is a tumor in head! But intellectuals are supposed to be like surgeons!
It is there duty to hold their there nerves and perform a successful surgery, thus the head can be saved! Not cut it off because they are feeling insecure or nervous!

Of course, when it comes to the very survival of turkey the first one to thank after God is GAZI MUSTAFA KEMAL. And then the brave turkish people.

However, you should also thanks a good amount of 'non turk' who fought for you! They were indispensable part of some of the significant battles in world War one that, any different outcome in any single of those battle could have change the calculations radically how turkish war of independence would be fought later.
Any other muslim country didn't enjoyed that advantage.

You should not misunderstand that perspective!
It does not decrease the greatness of GAZI MUSTAFA KEMAL a bit.
nor does it downplay the sacrifice of the brave turkish people.

Unless Islam reforms I personally don't see it improving anything if I'm honest. The various civilisations of the world left Islam behind a long time ago. We need to see one Muslim majority state reach first world status before seeing if indeed the Islamic civilisation can exist in this modern world. Maybe it can't, we have seen nothing to suggest that it can yet.

Yes there are backward Christian states, we see this in European context predominantly in orthodox nations, we have seen how the serbs, greeks, armenians have all behaved in history. However, the issue is about rising to first world status, many nations in the christian world have reached that place despite their problems. The USA which arguably has some of the most fundamental Christians on earth are the worlds sole super power.

The insecurity complex is seen in many places, when it comes to Muslims its generally seen more by those who were defeated and conquered by Christian powers.

As for the survival of Turkey Ataturk indeed was a great man, a true son of the Turks and in general anyone who opposed oppression. And when i say Turks i generally mean the people of Turkey.

However Turks suffered more from their non-Turk minorities in the dying days then they benefitted from. One by one they were turned against the Ottoman state and used by outside powers. The non-Turk Ottoman citizen contributed to the downfall of the empire significantly. Even Muslims from the India subcontinent were used by the British against the Ottoman empire.

In general though the Turks overwhelmingly paid the biggest price for an independent Turkish state.
 

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What I keep thinking is, since they will always cry genocide, what if Azerbaijan really attempted that? Will that change anything?
they always will say we did it whether we did it or not. might as well do it at that point. would help us heaps in the long term.
 

Putin's 3 Day War

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et's just say, those non turk muslims who fought for the ottoman was considerably less than who turned on against it.
But still the fewer non

Personally i don't pay much attention to al Jazeera for the most part its been as anti-Turkey as most other Arab owned media entities. I still remember seeing the documentary they did "world war one through arab eyes" which basically portrayed the Ottoman Turks as the evil enemy of the Arabs and Ataturk as a savage racist dictator. Which really continues the tradition of Arab states creating propaganda to show Turks as the enemy of the Arab world. It even runs with the same western narratives of calling the PKK who the Turks quite rightly look to destroy as simply Kurds, working to propagate the myth of Turks committing genocide on the Kurds. Making no distinction between a terrorist organisation and the ordinary Kurd on the street. Al Jazeera even inflames tensions by claiming that the Turks are racist towards the millions of Syrian refugees. So when it comes arab owned media i trust it less then i do western media. Which is not at all.

In general though the Ottomans had a low opinion of Arab soldiers and avoided using them where possible. Read the letters between Sulieman and his generals for example on the Arabs and their ability to fight. However the Arabs at the same time had a special status among the Turks since they were the people who gave the world Islam. Even today we still see this among a large section of Turkish society who feel a great affiliation for the Arabs because of this.

As for the people who fought for the Ottomans of course you would have to respect them, but lets not carried away like the minorities do in western countries, who claim they built these nations. The military success and failures of the Ottomans primarily falls on the Turks.
 

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The Lebanese Turkmens built a memorial dedicated to Azerbaijani soldiers of the 2020 Karabag war.

Armenians in Lebanon got triggered.

As Turks we need to protect our Turkmen brothers and sisters especially since its Lebanon which is a country thats collapsing. When it collapses these Armenians alongside their Maronite brothers will do a pogrom if given the chance.
 

Ryder

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Hypocritical when the Armenians in lebanon have memorials dedicated to Asala.

Lebanese Turkmens are Sunnis.

I commend them for honouring Azerbaijanis especially in Lebanon where sectratarianism is common.
 

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