Biden announces Indo-Pacific economic pact to counter China

[Jagdflieger]

Whatever, but they are starving when 140 usd per month is not enough to buy healthy food for 1 month, even if they r in VN.

No - they are not starving in China - since as I stated already the government and their families are helping to take care.
And with e.g. US$ 140 = 1000Rmb no one would be starving, even without help - the average daily food expense in China's poorest areas for self cooking is around 15 Rmb/day.
Which doesn't change the fact that millions in China are shit poor.

20% of Vietnam's population has less then US$ 5/day = 35Rmb/day (1000Rmb/month) 10% have less then US$1.-/day 7 Rmb, so are you telling me that 20 million Vietnamese or 10 million (poorest of the poor) are starving? probably not but they are just as shit poor as those in China.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

No - they are not starving in China - since as I stated already the government and their families are helping to take care.
And with e.g. US$ 140 = 1000Rmb no one would be starving, even without help - the average daily food expense in China's poorest areas for self cooking is around 15 Rmb/day.
Which doesn't change the fact that millions in China are shit poor.

20% of Vietnam's population has less then US$ 5/day = 35Rmb/day (1000Rmb/month) 10% have less then US$1.-/day 7 Rmb, so are you telling me that 20 million Vietnamese or 10 million (poorest of the poor) are starving? probably not but they are just as shit poor as those in China.

Actually, those poor Cnese did starved to death in the winter.


--------------

Dark side of thriving China: 5 kids die in trash​

Originally published November 21, 2012 at 8:54 pm Updated November 21, 2012 at 11:01 pm


On the day China unveiled its new leadership in Beijing with promises of a better life for all, five runaway boys died in a garbage bin where they had sought shelter and warmth on a cold, damp night in the south.
\
Some details of the boys’ home life remain unclear. Their relatives lack telephones and could not be contacted, though some were quoted by Chinese media outlets who sent journalists to the extremely poor, mountainous region of mud huts where farmers earn about 3,000 yuan ($475) a year.


The boys – Zhongjin, Zhonghong, Zhonglin, Chong and Bo – were found in a 1.5-meter-by-1.3-meter (5 foot-by-4 foot) garbage container in Bijie after a night of drizzling rain when temperatures were about 4 Celsius (40 Fahrenheit).

Two of the fathers, ironically, are garbage collectors in the boom city of Shenzhen near Hong Kong, according to a Xinhua report. One of the mothers lives in Shenzhen and another reportedly left the family. The third brother and his wife are farmers in the Bijie area, though they apparently often left the boys to fend for themselves, Xinhua said.

Dark side of thriving China: 5 kids die in trash

On the day China unveiled its new leadership in Beijing with promises of a better life for all, five runaway boys died in a garbage bin where they had sought shelter and warmth on a cold, damp night in the...

www.seattletimes.com

 

[Jagdflieger]

An article from 2012 !!!

These kind of terrible occurrences - are happening throughout the world incl. e.g. the USA or even Germany. It is the reason as to why the CCP and Xi started this anti-poverty program in the first place.

Just as this horrible issue with a man thought dead - but actually being found to be alive - thanks to some attentive hospital staff. And rightfully the Doctor and involved hospital staff/administration were punished and future preventive action implemented by the Shanghai government.

That "naturally" CNN or it's like minded media friends "jump" onto such an occurrence, - ignorantly trying to point out that this is how China is supposed to be overall is understood.

That these media outlets in paralell ignore that presently around 41 million people in the US currently live in a state of food insecurity, meaning that they don't have stable access to food is also understood.
Just as supposedly 10-15 million Chinese died due to starvation during the "Great Leap" but ignoring that supposedly 7 million Americans died due to starvation during the Great Depression.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

An article from 2012 !!!

These kind of terrible occurrences - are happening throughout the world incl. e.g. the USA or even Germany. It is the reason as to why the CCP and Xi started this anti-poverty program in the first place.

Just as this horrible issue with a man thought dead - but actually being found to be alive - thanks to some attentive hospital staff. And rightfully the Doctor and involved hospital staff/administration were punished and future preventive action implemented by the Shanghai government.

That "naturally" CNN or it's like minded media friends "jump" onto such an occurrence, - ignorantly trying to point out that this is how China is supposed to be overall is understood.

Thats why I think CN posters should stop posting propaganda how "rich and powerful" CN is. There are hundred million poor ppl in CN and many of them are dying due to lack of healthy food and warm shelter. Stop making trouble with your neighbours, specially in SCS(east VN sea) where CN just got hard slap in 2014 conflict and help those poor CNese first.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Thats why I think CN posters should stop posting propaganda how "rich and powerful" CN is. There are hundred million poor ppl in CN and many of them are dying due to lack of healthy food and warm shelter. Stop making trouble with your neighbours, specially in SCS(east VN sea) where CN just got hard slap in 2014 conflict and help those poor CNese first.

Some statement might be propaganda whilst others are facts.

Despite China having 100 million poor they still are a rich and powerful nation - as any GDP or military statistic will show.
The trouble amongst the neighbors needs to be resolved "diplomatically" amongst the neighbors since all claim something that isn't verified by the other.

IMO as I had already stated many times - China signed UNCLOS, if they have fundamental reasons to disagree with it - they are free to leave this agreement.
Would this help the other claimants in any way? IMO certainly not - China being a signatory actually protects them even though from time to time China is bullying it's way into others EEZ to enforce progress towards diplomatic talks, since the other claimants all believe that UNCLOS has settled their positive claims and as such are simply reluctant to negotiate upon new realities.

Aside from Germany (I believe to be the only country in the world) who signed freely onto not reclaiming lost territory that belonged to Germany or it's territorial forerunners for hundreds of years, I don't think that any Asian country or country on this planet would follow suit.

 

[xizhimen]

Where did Premier Li state: 600 million starving people?

Sorry but you are forwarding false statements again. (aka trolling) and consistently base your statements upon unsubstantiated Western Media reports by e.g. CNN

None of my stats is based on Chinese sources - but Western and international institutions, who's content you seem/prefer to ignore.
If you are just happy, via bashing China with inconclusive and unsubstantiated information - go ahead - but I will refrain from further discussion in such threads.

He is just trolling and lost it, everyone can see this.

 

[Nilgiri]

Whatever, but they are starving when 140 usd per month is not enough to buy healthy food for 1 month, even if they r in VN.

The "this is disposable income " argument only adds further questions:

- If the real income (pre tax) is significantly higher , why is the Chinese govt taxing folks at bottom of pyramid so heavily?

- What would the implied Gini coefficient actually be given the GDP nominal claims (that Premier Li has also brought up issues in the past)...given the sheer size of 600 million people to the whole population.

- Why did Premier Li bring this up in the context he did? along with the many other things he brought up as well before and since?

One earlier example of many:

China ‘exaggerated’ GDP data by 2 percentage points, new study says

Mainland has overestimated its nominal and real growth rates by about 2 full percentage points on average between 2008 to 2016.

www.scmp.com

w.r.t:

China's GDP is "man-made," unreliable: top leader

China's GDP figures are "man-made" and therefore unreliable, the man who is expected to be the country's next head of government said in 2007, according to U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.

www.reuters.com

It is why I prefer to analyse China'e economy with sources and people that actually know the deep problems and challenges and why GDP (being an estimate of high political significance attached to it and compiled and produced by political organs in the end) does not capture this adequately at all.

i.e things like the large issue with revenue and wealth metrics in PRC specifically real estate + bond market bubble given the large informal economy.

Credit suisse report (that bots copy paste selectively from without reading the report in detail) and many others go into the details (Economics Explained and Polymatter on Youtube etc).

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

Some statement might be propaganda whilst others are facts.

Despite China having 100 million poor they still are a rich and powerful nation - as any GDP or military statistic will show.
The trouble amongst the neighbors needs to be resolved "diplomatically" amongst the neighbors since all claim something that isn't verified by the other.

IMO as I had already stated many times - China signed UNCLOS, if they have fundamental reasons to disagree with it - they are free to leave this agreement.
Would this help the other claimants in any way? IMO certainly not - China being a signatory actually protects them even though from time to time China is bullying it's way into others EEZ to enforce progress towards diplomatic talks, since the other claimants all believe that UNCLOS has settled their positive claims and as such are simply reluctant to negotiate upon new realities.

Aside from Germany (I believe to be the only country in the world) who signed freely onto not reclaiming lost territory that belonged to Germany or it's territorial forerunners for hundreds of years, I don't think that any Asian country or country on this planet would follow suit.

Okay, CN is rich, but 600 million chinese earn less than 140 usd are poor and even not having enough healthy food to survive, some of them were frozen to dead in hard winter.

CN is powerful ?? hmph, CN dare not even fight back and failed to protect its people when Myanmar dropped bomb to CN's land, not mentioning the hard slap from in 2014 CN-VN conflict, then CN is still powerful ?? CN hasn't won any wars since US stop supporting CN after Soviet collapsed in 1990.

IMO, CN can't even defeat Myanmar in a convetional wafre.

-----------------

Myanmar Warplane Kills Four Farmers in China​

• March 13, 2015

HONG KONG — Four farmers in southwest China were killed Friday when one or more bombs released from a warplane from Myanmar struck a sugar cane field, as fighting between Myanmar’s government forces and an ethnic group pressed against the frontier with China.

Myanmar Warplane Kills Four Farmers in China (Published 2015)

One or more bombs released from a warplane from Myanmar Friday struck a sugar cane field, as fighting between government forces and an ethnic group pressed against the frontier with China.

www.nytimes.com

 

[xizhimen]

The "this is disposable income " argument only adds further questions:

- If the real income (pre tax) is significantly higher , why is the Chinese govt taxing folks at bottom of pyramid so heavily?

- What would the implied Gini coefficient actually be given the GDP nominal claims (that Premier Li has also brought up issues in the past)...given the sheer size of 600 million people to the whole population.

- Why did Premier Li bring this up in the context he did? along with the many other things he brought up as well before and since?

One earlier example of many:

China ‘exaggerated’ GDP data by 2 percentage points, new study says

Mainland has overestimated its nominal and real growth rates by about 2 full percentage points on average between 2008 to 2016.

www.scmp.com

w.r.t:

China's GDP is "man-made," unreliable: top leader

China's GDP figures are "man-made" and therefore unreliable, the man who is expected to be the country's next head of government said in 2007, according to U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.

www.reuters.com

It is why I prefer to analyse China'e economy with sources and people that actually know the deep problems and challenges and why GDP (being an estimate of high political significance attached to it and compiled and produced by political organs in the end) does not capture this adequately at all.

i.e things like the large issue with revenue and wealth metrics in PRC specifically real estate + bond market bubble given the large informal economy.

Credit suisse report (that bots copy paste selectively from without reading the report in detail) and many others go into the details (Economics Explained and Polymatter on Youtube etc).

GDP number can be inaccurate, in China or in every country, there are many other factors which are not easily faked can be referred to like trade datas, imports and exports.
US GDP is artificially blown up by their stock markets, as for Indian GDP, they changed the ways to calculate it multiple times to increase the number, it looks good on paper but sees not much on the ground.

indian gdp fake - Google Search

www.google.com.hk

 

[xizhimen]

China's economy has been shifting towards high tech for quite sometime already

China's actual use of foreign capital rises 17.3% in the first five months, with the high-tech service sector seeing a 45.4% surge​

https://www.ciftis.org/article/12897599914635264.html

 

[Jagdflieger]

The "this is disposable income " argument only adds further questions:
- If the real income (pre tax) is significantly higher , why is the Chinese govt taxing folks at bottom of pyramid so heavily?

What do you define to be "heavy"?
Annual income up to 36,000Rmb US$5200 = 3% tax
Annual income from 420,000-660,000Rmb, US$ 60,000-95,000 = 30%
The Chinese income taxation system and social welfare deduction is more or less the same as in Germany

- Why did Premier Li bring this up in the context he did? along with the many other things he brought up as well before and since?

Because the CCP announced that they have achieved their goal to eradicate poverty - defined by the international standard of US$1,90/day - 400Rmb/month
Therefore Premier Li - gave the reminder that improvement is still going on, because 600 million Chinese have a disposable income of less then 1000Rmb/month

More or less anyone in China below the age of 20 or above 55 is either a student or a pensioner - therefore no registered income via employment for around 800 million people. Millions are farmers or rural village folks that are not being taxed and live of their fields and small side incomes via selling agricultural products or via other side jobs.
Whilst some average pensioner in Shanghai gets around 4500Rmb/month, many of those in rural poor areas only receive around 300-500Rmb.
So Premier Li is one of many advocates in the CCP to find ways to enhance/improve the pension scheme. Knowing that presently around 600 million people are financially supported by the government and working family members.

In e.g. Shanghai it is actually the other way around - pensioners only spend at average 40% of their pension - and contribute the remainder towards their kids and families.

i.e things like the large issue with revenue and wealth metrics in PRC specifically real estate + bond market bubble given the large informal economy.

Applies more or less to any other country too.
In China real-estate has gone up from 2015-2022 by around 100% - being financed at an average rate of 5-6% interest and more - depending on how much real-estate one owns. And if one already owns more then 2 one has to pay upfront 100%.
In Germany real-estate has gone up from 2015-2022 by around 100% - being financed at an average rate of 1-2% interest, independent of how many real-estate one already has. And if one already owns more then 1or 2 the upfront payment is still at average 25%.

So who's bubble is actually the more serious one? taking into account that these super low interest-rates in Germany are due to the Central banks interest rate of 1% - whilst the Central bank rate in China is at 3,5%.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

The US and Japan want to establish production of 2nm products without Taiwan and prevent technology leakage to China​

https://gadgettendency.com/the-us-a...wan-and-prevent-technology-leakage-to-china/#
May 3, 2022


According to the source, the governments of Japan and the United States are close to an agreement on cooperation in the production of chips using 2 nm technology and even more advanced solutions. Both countries are concerned about their dependence on Taiwanese and other suppliers and are seeking to diversify their sources. They are also working on a mechanism to prevent technology leakage, especially to China.
At present, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC) is the leading developer of 2nm technology, and IBM has completed a prototype in 2021. The Japanese government has proposed to TSMC to build a plant on the southwestern island of Kyushu to increase domestic chip production, but the plant will only produce less advanced 10nm to 20nm chips.
At the same time, the new Japanese-American cooperation, focused on advanced developments, can be seen as the next step after being invited to TSMC. The US and Japan are also reportedly working on a mechanism to prevent technology leakage to China and other countries. Japanese Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Koichi Hagiuda is visiting the United States to meet with US Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo.

It is expected that during the same visit they will announce cooperation in the field of chips. Recall that Japan was concerned about the decline in domestic development and production in the industry. In 1990, the country accounted for about 50% of the global semiconductor market with a volume of about $38 billion. Market share has declined by about 10%, even though the industry is growing.
Japan’s Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) attributes Japan’s waning dominance to a number of factors, including the U.S.-Japan trade war over memory chips, Japan’s inability to adopt a horizontally integrated manufacturing model, digitalization delay, and other factors.

Gadget Tendency - Gadgets, Technology And More

Gadgets, Technology and More

gadgettendency.com

Seem like CN never can make 2nm chip and has to rely on US-JP's chips for good

 

[Jagdflieger]

Whatever idea the USA and friends will come up with is all directed towards one single goal; To slow down China's progress with whatever available means.

Nothing new - and so far nothing is stopping China's continued rise. No one is even able to proof that such actions are slowing down China - since the entire world is slowed down due to Covid. Whatever $ is spend on such tasks by the USA and friends is lost for other programs - the same applies towards China.

Do you know as to where "Made in Germany" actually drives from? In case you should not:
It was the largest world wide economic sanction devised by England, France and the USA in the 20th century to mark out goods that should not be bought. Aka - watch out Made in Germany - don't buy. Well didn't really work out in the intended way, even despite WW1 and WW2.

And watch out for Japan; they have not forgotten as to who deliberately and decisively destroyed their economic progress from the 90's till today. (USA)
So what ever Japan does together with the USA - one can be absolutely sure that Japan will know how to use it and against whom, with any technical economic advantage given to them for the future.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

Whatever idea the USA and friends will come up with is all directed towards one single goal; To slow down China's progress with whatever available means.

Nothing new - and so far nothing is stopping China's continued rise. No one is even able to proof that such actions are slowing down China - since the entire world is slowed down due to Covid. Whatever $ is spend on such tasks by the USA and friends is lost for other programs - the same applies towards China.

Do you know as to where "Made in Germany" actually drives from? In case you should not:
It was the largest world wide economic sanction devised by England, France and the USA in the 20th century to mark out goods that should not be bought. Aka - watch out Made in Germany - don't buy. Well didn't really work out in the intended way, even despite WW1 and WW2.

And watch out for Japan; they have not forgotten as to who deliberately and decisively destroyed their economic progress from the 90's till today. (USA)
So what ever Japan does together with the USA - one can be absolutely sure that Japan will know how to use it and against whom, with any technical economic advantage given to them for the future.

German surrendered to US and let US set up military base, spy network in German. JP also surrendered to US and let US set up military base, spy network in JP thats why US knows that building 2nm chip plants in JP is safe and CN can not steal anything cos CIA control everything in JP after ww2.

Sooner or later China will be lagged behind at least in chip technology and has no choice but buying chips from US for good while its harder and harder for Cnese to find good and stable jobs when more and more factories keep quiting CN to VN( Nike, Samsung, Ipad etc) and other countries (TSMC build $5bn chip plant in Singapore) to avoid trade war.

Thats why CN's banks are bankrupted , its too hard to feed 1,4 billion ppl with 600 million ppl earn less than 140 usd when US stop giving help.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Thats why CN's banks are bankrupted , its too hard to feed 1,4 billion ppl with 600 million ppl earn less than 140 usd when US stop giving help.

hmm.. you are starting to bring in unsubstantiated statements again - China's banks are not bankrupt and 600 million people do not "earn" less then US$140 but have a disposable income of....., and it is not hard to feed the 1.4 billion people.

And you can be very sure that China will not lack behind in chip technology in 4-5 years time. Once trade relations get back to normal - again the USA might have shot it's own foot - because then China might not go back to importing them from the USA.

Some friends of mine in Germany complained that the present delivery time for a car is 7-9 month - before Covid it was 1-2 month. Covid has a huge impact on this since it disrupts the supply chains - also for chips in general. - nothing to do with the trade war at all.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

hmm.. you are starting to bring in unsubstantiated statements again - China's banks are not bankrupt and 600 million people do not "earn" less then US$140 but have a disposable income of....., and it is not hard to feed the 1.4 billion people.

China's banks are not bankrupt, then pls return the money to the depositors. in 2012 CN famers only earned about 3,000 yuan ($475) a year, so no surprise when they still only earn 140 usd per month now.

------------------------
On the day China unveiled its new leadership in Beijing with promises of a better life for all, five runaway boys died in a garbage bin where they had sought shelter and warmth on a cold, damp night in the south.
\
Some details of the boys’ home life remain unclear. Their relatives lack telephones and could not be contacted, though some were quoted by Chinese media outlets who sent journalists to the extremely poor, mountainous region of mud huts where farmers earn about 3,000 yuan ($475) a year.

And you can be very sure that China will not lack behind in chip technology in 4-5 years time. Once trade relations get back to normal - again the USA might have shot it's own foot - because then China might not go back to importing them from the USA.

trade relations get back to normal only when CN surrender to US like Soviet, German and JP. There are no reason for US to stop trade war when they r winning

Some friends of mine in Germany complained that the present delivery time for a car is 7-9 month - before Covid it was 1-2 month. Covid has a huge impact on this since it disrupts the supply chains - also for chips in general. - nothing to do with the trade war at all.

Covid is almost over, CN keep locking down the cities mainly for political reasons ( e.g want Cnese stop buying German cars, Iphone, Ipad , Tesla EV etc ) while CN still can make money from exporting, so China's trade surplus still look good.

 

[Jagdflieger]

China's banks are not bankrupt, then pls return the money to the depositors. in 2012 CN famers only earned about 3,000 yuan ($475) a year, so no surprise when they still only earn 140 usd per month now.

China is investigating onto the claims. Keep in mind that there are no "100% private" banks in China. In the past a lot of mismanagement (corruption and illegal banking business) has been conducted. Lot's of "illegal obtained" savings have also been accumulated. Rest assured that legal savings in China have so far always been secured and accounted for by the Chinese government.

In 2004 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 1500Rmb/month
In 2012 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 2500Rmb/month
In 2021 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 4000Rmb/month
Around 60% of these unskilled workers were Hokou registered farmers, meaning that additionally their parents and grandparents were working on their own family farmland as registered pensioners. Their respective pensions and side income not being registered as such not contributing to an income statistic.

Only farmers "officially" either working for a farmer community (income) or their crops contributing towards the farmer collective (revenue) can be found in a statistic. As such this 3000Rmb or whatever figure in regards to a farmers income is pure theory and is prone to underestimating the actual income or disposable income of these folks. - so simple way of "judging" their actual monetary issue is the income via alternative employment that makes them leave their farms.

And that is presently in Shanghai around 4000Rmb/month - in Wuhan around 2500Rmb/month and in rural distant areas around 1500Rmb. If you offer less you will not get or find unskilled workers willing to leave their farmland. And again this figure has nothing to do with the "disposable income" of new born to students (1-18 years old) and pensioners (anyone above 55). maintaining their own farmland and making additional side incomes.

So in regards to my own eye's and experience of 20 years in China - having traveled all around the country, there is in general so such thing as a poor farmer (meaning less then US$ 300/month) Exception of those living in really remote rural mostly mountainous areas - with no sufficient infrastructure or even accessible by car or even by motorbike. And these area's since 2020 account IMO for less then 10% of farmers in China.

About 12 years ago friends of mine and my family made a road-trip -(and I have made many such trips right up to Tibet) excluding mostly highways, from Shanghai to Changsha country side. (1400km one way) did we see poverty? yes quite a lot, did we see hunger or people dying of starvation? no absolutely not. 2 years ago we repeated that trip - did we see poverty? no, can you find poverty? sure any town or village has some shitty, run down houses - and this is were CNN and alike place their cameras to make a report about China's poverty.

trade relations get back to normal only when CN surrender to US like Soviet, German and JP. There are no reason for US to stop trade war when they r winning

China doesn't need to surrender to anyone - since there is no occurrence demanding such a thing. The USA is not winning anything - especially not on behalf of the trade war. They are just making their own inflation go skyrocketing - drastically reducing their own consumers buying-power - and disrupting world trade relationships throughout the world to absolutely no-ones benefit.

You believe that Vietnam is benefiting from this? foreign investment towards Vietnam have already been done long before the trade war- especially those from China - due to cheaper labor costs. E.g. Samsung's relocation to Vietnam has nothing to do with the US-China trade war - but simply due to cheaper labor costs and Samsung products not being able to compete on the Chinese market.
If Vietnam continuous it's GDP growth (which IMO it will) - it's labor costs within the next 5-10 years will be just as high as those presently in China - if Vietnam isn't able to convert it's cheap goods manufacturing to middle, and high-tech goods - more or less all of this cheap labor seeking manufacturing will turn to other countries, e.g. Indonesia, Philippines, Bangladesh, etc. etc.

Vietnam's biggest economic rival and "danger" IMO is actually India. Huge market potential and super cheap labor due to millions and millions of unemployed.
I don't see "aversion" in S.E.A towards India or Indians. But does Vietnam have friends or "harbor positive feelings" amongst it's neighbors? because you need them to buy products made in Vietnam, you tell me.

Covid is almost over,

On which planet do you live ?

CN keep locking down the cities mainly for political reasons ( e.g want Cnese stop buying German cars, Iphone, Ipad , Tesla EV etc ) while CN still can make money from exporting, so China's trade surplus still look good.

Totally unsubstantiated comment/statement - or in other words, IMO total nonsense.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

China is investigating onto the claims. Keep in mind that there are no "100% private" banks in China. In the past a lot of mismanagement (corruption and illegal banking business) has been conducted. Lot's of "illegal obtained" savings have also been accumulated. Rest assured that legal savings in China have so far always been secured and accounted for by the Chinese government.

In 2004 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 1500Rmb/month
In 2012 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 2500Rmb/month
In 2021 the average income of my unskilled workers in Shanghai was around 4000Rmb/month
Around 60% of these unskilled workers were Hokou registered farmers, meaning that additionally their parents and grandparents were working on their own family farmland as registered pensioners. Their respective pensions and side income not being registered as such not contributing to an income statistic.

Only farmers "officially" either working for a farmer community (income) or their crops contributing towards the farmer collective (revenue) can be found in a statistic. As such this 3000Rmb or whatever figure in regards to a farmers income is pure theory and is prone to underestimating the actual income or disposable income of these folks. - so simple way of "judging" their actual monetary issue is the income via alternative employment that makes them leave their farms.

And that is presently in Shanghai around 4000Rmb/month - in Wuhan around 2500Rmb/month and in rural distant areas around 1500Rmb. If you offer less you will not get or find unskilled workers willing to leave their farmland. And again this figure has nothing to do with the "disposable income" of new born to students (1-18 years old) and pensioners (anyone above 55). maintaining their own farmland and making additional side incomes.

So in regards to my own eye's and experience of 20 years in China - having traveled all around the country, there is in general so such thing as a poor farmer (meaning less then US$ 300/month) Exception of those living in really remote rural mostly mountainous areas - with no sufficient infrastructure or even accessible by car or even by motorbike. And these area's since 2020 account IMO for less then 10% of farmers in China.

How many unskilled workers u could hire ?? 100, 200 ?? while CN's workforce is 800 millions, thats why many famers can't find jobs and have to become garbage collectors and can't take care of their kids


----------------
Some details of the boys’ home life remain unclear. Their relatives lack telephones and could not be contacted, though some were quoted by Chinese media outlets who sent journalists to the extremely poor, mountainous region of mud huts where farmers earn about 3,000 yuan ($475) a year.


The boys – Zhongjin, Zhonghong, Zhonglin, Chong and Bo – were found in a 1.5-meter-by-1.3-meter (5 foot-by-4 foot) garbage container in Bijie after a night of drizzling rain when temperatures were about 4 Celsius (40 Fahrenheit).

Two of the fathers, ironically, are garbage collectors in the boom city of Shenzhen near Hong Kong, according to a Xinhua report. One of the mothers lives in Shenzhen and another reportedly left the family. The third brother and his wife are farmers in the Bijie area, though they apparently often left the boys to fend for themselves, Xinhua said.

About 12 years ago friends of mine and my family made a road-trip -(and I have made many such trips right up to Tibet) excluding mostly highways, from Shanghai to Changsha country side. (1400km one way) did we see poverty? yes quite a lot, did we see hunger or people dying of starvation? no absolutely not. 2 years ago we repeated that trip - did we see poverty? no, can you find poverty? sure any town or village has some shitty, run down houses - and this is were CNN and alike place their cameras to make a report about China's poverty.

U have same problem with another red Guards, they only see CN is "rich and powerful" while they don't see any poor famers killed by Myanmar's bombs and only earn 140 usd per month as Premiers Li admit

China doesn't need to surrender to anyone - since there is no occurrence demanding such a thing. The USA is not winning anything - especially not on behalf of the trade war. They are just making their own inflation go skyrocketing - drastically reducing their own consumers buying-power - and disrupting world trade relationships throughout the world to absolutely no-ones benefit.

You believe that Vietnam is benefiting from this? foreign investment towards Vietnam have already been done long before the trade war- especially those from China - due to cheaper labor costs. E.g. Samsung's relocation to Vietnam has nothing to do with the US-China trade war - but simply due to cheaper labor costs and Samsung products not being able to compete on the Chinese market.
If Vietnam continuous it's GDP growth (which IMO it will) - it's labor costs within the next 5-10 years will be just as high as those presently in China - if Vietnam isn't able to convert it's cheap goods manufacturing to middle, and high-tech goods - more or less all of this cheap labor seeking manufacturing will turn to other countries, e.g. Indonesia, Philippines, Bangladesh, etc. etc.

CN doesn't surrender, then trade war will not end ,600 million Chinese keep earning less than 140 usd..There is No reason to stop trade war soon as you wish cos US is winning.

Yes, Samsung relocation to VN simply cheaper labor costs and Samsung products not being able to compete on the Chinese market, but it prove that Samsung , Apple, Nike etc will still make lots of money without CN's market.

The goal of trade war is that the World will make sure CN will keep remain poor and backward ( e.g in 5nm to 2nm chips technology ). If can not make 1 billion Cnese live in poverty, then 600 million is still good enough and the World is success in keeping 600 million Chinese keep earning less than 140 usd now . CN will have much more problems when its population get older when 600 million Chinese are still as poor as N.Korea

Vietnam's biggest economic rival and "danger" IMO is actually India. Huge market potential and super cheap labor due to millions and millions of unemployed.
I don't see "aversion" in S.E.A towards India or Indians. But does Vietnam have friends or "harbor positive feelings" amongst it's neighbors? because you need them to buy products made in Vietnam, you tell me.

On which planet do you live ?

Totally unsubstantiated comment/statement - or in other words, IMO total nonsense.

VN's main export market is EU-US, not India or A.E.A (ASEAN), so we are not rival till India and A.E.A (ASEAN) also can export their products in huge volume to EU-US .

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

More big CN's real estate companies collapse could lead to more CN's bank go bankrupted​

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Chinese Developer Shimao Defaults on $1 Billion Dollar Bond​

• Property firms have led record wave of offshore defaults
• Shimao says it’s in talks with creditors, hires advisers

Chinese developer Shimao Group Holdings Ltd. missed payment on a $1 billion dollar note due Sunday, its first default on a public bond after months of mounting stress.
Shimao’s delinquency is among the biggest dollar payment failures so far this year in China and the firm has about $5.5 billion in outstanding offshore bonds. The luxury builder’s bonds have priced in deep levels of distress since the beginning of the year, with most notes falling to record lows of below 15 cents on the dollar after the firm missed repayment on a private note.

Shimao, whose landmark projects include a five-star hotel built into an abandoned quarry, was once considered largely immune to the sweeping crackdown that has engulfed larger peers like China Evergrande Group and Sunac Group Holdings Ltd. The country’s 14th-biggest developer by contracted sales has faced mounting worries about its financial health since late last year, with stress in the industry taking it toll on a widening set on players.

“The contagion has spread from Evergrande to Sunac and now Shimao,” said Kristy Hung, a Bloomberg Intelligence analyst. “That raises our concerns that the extent of the debt crisis is beyond any market watcher’s imagination.”
Shimao also hasn’t made principal payments involving some other offshore debts and has been in discussion with creditors while trying to reach “amicable resolutions,” it said in a Hong Kong exchange filing. If it can’t, “creditors may have the right to demand acceleration of repayment” and take enforcement actions, according to the company.

There is no grace period for the principal on the firm’s $1 billion dollar bond, according to the note’s offering circular seen by Bloomberg News. The builder is among the largest real-estate debt issuers in China.


Shimao’s announcement of a default rather than an extension plan proposal “shows the company’s weak financial situation to meet its debts payment schedule and the necessity for an overall debt restructuring plan,” said Ting Meng, senior Asia credit strategist at ANZ Bank China. The default was well expected after the firm missed a dollar private bond payment and delayed onshore debt payments, she added.
“Due to market uncertainties over debt refinancing and generally challenging operating and funding conditions, the group experienced negative developments on its credit ratings and the occurrence of principal nonpayments under certain of its offshore indebtedness,” Shimao said in its filing.
The company said in a separate statement it’s sold nearly 20 more property projects to raise money. It also expects to be able to accelerate cash inflow from property sales as the property market shows signs of rebound. New-home sales rose an estimated 31% in June from May in 30 key Chinese cities, according to China Real Estate Information Corp.

Meanwhile, Shimao has appointed Admiralty Harbour Capital Ltd. as its financial adviser and Sidley Austin as its legal adviser to help assess its capital structure, liquidity and options, the builder said in its exchange filing.
Shimao said it hasn’t received any notice of repayment acceleration from its creditors, but has obtained written support from the majority of its dual-currency term loan lenders. The lenders also expressed they don’t intend to take any enforcement action at this stage regarding the financing, according to the filing

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

U.S. international trade deficit shrinks in May​

ON JULY 7, 2022ECONOMY, NEWSBYTES
The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis announced today that the goods and services deficit was $85.5 billion in May, down $1.1 billion from $86.7 billion in April, revised.

The May increase in the goods and services deficit reflected a decrease in the goods deficit of $2.9 billion to $105.0 billion and a decrease in the services surplus of $1.7 billion to $19.4 billion.
May exports were $255.9 billion, $3.0 billion more than April exports. May imports were $341.4 billion, $1.9 billion more than April imports.
The average goods and services deficit decreased $0.9 billion to $93.3 billion for the three months ending in May. Year-over-year, the average goods and services deficit increased $26.5 billion from the three months ending in May 2021.

U.S. international trade deficit shrinks in May

The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis announced today that the goods and services deficit was

bankingjournal.aba.com

The US trade deficit narrowed in May as sluggish domestic demand amid rising interest rates curbed imports. It means US buy less products from CN when FED keep raising interest rates.