Breaking News China-US War?

[Huelague]

Why China has to hurt Pelosi, China is not that supid, if China did, the whole world will turn against China, do you really think Chinese leaders are that stupid? they just wait and take this chance to forever changed the status quo in Taiwan.

Where is the weak point of USA?

 

[xizhimen]

Taiwan could not be compared to Paracel islands both in matters of size and importance.

And today's China is also not the China in 1974

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The next day, Chinese jet fighters and ground-attack aircraft from Hainan bombed the three islands, and were followed up with an amphibious landing force. The South Vietnamese Marine garrison was captured, and the naval force retreated to Đà Nẵng.

While the battle was going on, the Vietnamese fleet detected two Chinese reinforcing warships rushing to the area; China later acknowledged that these were the Hainan-Class submarine chasers #281 and #282. Despite reports that at least one Vietnamese craft had been struck by a missile, China insisted that no missile-bearing ships were involved in the battle. In addition, the South Vietnamese fleet also received warnings from the United States that their naval radar had detected additional Chinese guided missile frigates and MiG jet fighters on their way from nearby Hainan. South Vietnam requested assistance from the US Seventh Fleet, but the request was rejected.

 

[Gary]

And today's China is also not the China in 1974

it goes both ways, the US today is not the US of 1945, not 1965 or 1991. It's clearly much more lethal.

Trying to compare Paracel with Taiwan is simply dumb, because Paracel islands don't have the same effect on US interests such as Taiwan. It all comes to interest.

The US decided not to intervene when India attacked its NATO ally Portugal in Goa, but intervened to take on Iraq in Kuwait even though Kuwait is not any NATO member. It all comes to interest, and Taiwan is on top of US interest at the moment.

 

[xizhimen]

it goes both ways, the US today is not the US of 1945, not 1965 or 1991. It's clearly much more lethal.

Trying to compare Paracel with Taiwan is simply dumb, because Paracel islands don't have the same effect on US interests such as Taiwan. It all comes to interest.

The US decide not to intervene when India attacks its NATO ally Portugal in Goa, but intervened to take on Iraq in Kuwait even though Kuwait is not any NATO member. It all comes to interest, and Taiwan is on top of US interest at the moment.

Paracel islands are very far from China, and China was attacking an US ally, South Vietnam. Taiwan is not even recognized by US as a country, this fact itself shows how weak US really is, doesn't even dare to say Taiwan is a country.

 

[Gary]

Paracel islands are very far from China, and China was attacking an US ally, South Vietnam. Taiwan is not even recognized by US as a country,

As I said to you it all comes to interest, the US might choose to ignore that Taiwan isn't technically a country and still go for war to save it out of national interest.

this fact itself shows how weak US really is, doesn't even dare to say Taiwan is a country.

Not really, its called strategic ambiguity. Go look it up

A policy of deliberate ambiguity is the practice by a government of being intentionally ambiguous on certain aspects of its foreign policy. It may be useful if the country has contrary foreign and domestic policy goals or if it wants to take advantage of risk aversion to abet a deterrence strategy.

Policy of deliberate ambiguity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[xizhimen]

As I said to you it all comes to interest, the US might choose to ignore that Taiwan isn't technically a country and still go for war to save it out of national interest.

Not really, its called strategic ambiguity. Go look it up

A policy of deliberate ambiguity is the practice by a government of being intentionally ambiguous on certain aspects of its foreign policy. It may be useful if the country has contrary foreign and domestic policy goals or if it wants to take advantage of risk aversion to abet a deterrence strategy.

Policy of deliberate ambiguity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BUT why they do this "ambiguity" , why did they abandon their decades old ally Taiwan all together in 1979?

 

[xizhimen]

Taiwan could not be compared to Paracel islands both in matters of size and importance.

If Taiwan is really that important US wouldn't have abandoned it altogther in 1979, a decades long ally who helped US win WW2 over Japan, helped US in Korean war and Vietname war... US just chuck it away like useless trash. US can treat Taiwan like trash and abandon it before, how do you know they won't do the same to Taiwan today or in the future?

 

[xizhimen]

Who is going to answer this call?

President Tsai appeals for international support to democratic Taiwan as China steps up military drills​

Some of the Chinese aircraft and vessels had crossed the sensitive median line in the Taiwan Strait that separates the island from the Chinese mainland, the ministry tweeted​

August 6

Beleaguered Taiwan on Saturday appealed for international help as it grappled with “simulated attacks” by the Chinese military around the self-ruled island, as Beijing stepped up provocative drills and warplane incursions in the Taiwan Straits in retaliation for US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s high-stakes visit to Taipei.

“Our government and military are closely monitoring China’s military exercises and information warfare operations, ready to respond as necessary. I call on the international community to support democratic Taiwan and halt any escalation of the regional security situation,” Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen tweeted.

Some of the Chinese aircraft and vessels had crossed the sensitive median line in the Taiwan Strait that separates the island from the Chinese mainland, the ministry said.

While the scale of the military drills has led to speculation that China may be getting ready for an invasion of Taiwan, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi played down the reports.

“It’s a complete rumour and slander that the US claims that China has changed the status quo in the Taiwan Straits,” he said.

Pelosi’s high-profile visit to Taipei on Wednesday and her meeting with President Tsai Ing-wen and other leaders has infuriated China, which views the self-governed democratic island as its territory that should be reunified with the mainland, even by force.

Wang has warned the US not to stir up a bigger crisis over Taiwan while defending the unprecedented military drills by the PLA in the Taiwan Strait, which included firing missiles over the island.

Wang, who attended the ASEAN foreign ministers’ meeting in Phnom Penh was quoted in the official media here as saying that the usual tactic of the US is that it will first create the problems, and then use them to achieve their goal.

“But this approach will not work on China,” he said.

We must solemnly warn the US not to act rashly or create a bigger crisis, he said, a day after Beijing imposed sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family.

China has also halted co-operation with the US in several key areas including climate change, military affairs and efforts to combat international crime.

“The People’s Republic of China is the sole legal government representing the whole of China. This is the real status quo of the Taiwan question,” Wang said, refuting criticism from the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who accused Beijing of changing the status quo over Taiwan using Pelosi’s visit as an excuse.

Blinken, who is also in Phnom Penh, told the media on Friday that China’s military drills around Taiwan in response to Pelosi’s visit to the self-ruled island is a disproportionate and unjustified escalation.

“There is no justification for this extreme, disproportionate and escalatory military response,” Blinken said on the sidelines of an ASEAN meeting, adding, “now, they’ve taken dangerous acts to a new level.” For the third day on Saturday, China continued the joint combat training exercises in the northern, southwestern and eastern waters and airspace off Taiwan Island as scheduled, in a bid to test consecutively the joint operation capability of the theatre command troops.

China’s four-day drills were announced on Thursday.

It is not clear whether the PLA, which has gone in for the largest mobilisation of the military, including deploying an aircraft group and a nuclear submarine will announce another set of drills.

Defending the PLA’s military drills and Japan saying that China fired four missiles over Taiwan, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying said the visit by Speaker Pelosi has triggered the current tensions and all China’s countermeasures are justified, necessary, and proportionate.

The Eastern Theatre Command of the PLA said on Saturday it continued joint combat exercises and training in the northern, southwestern and eastern waters and airspace of China’s Taiwan island as planned, the official media reported.

On Friday, the air force under the PLA Eastern Theatre Command dispatched multi-type warplanes, including fighter jets, bombers, early-warning aircraft, electronic reconnaissance aircraft to conduct drills on such combat missions as airspace control operation, air support and cover, air strike, reconnaissance and early warning around Taiwan.

President Tsai appeals for international support to democratic Taiwan as China steps up military drills

Beleaguered Taiwan on Saturday appealed for international help as it grappled with “simulated attacks” by the Chinese military around the self-ruled island, as Beijing stepped up provocative drills and warplane incursions in the Taiwan Straits in retaliation for US House Speaker Nancy Pe

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[Gary]

If Taiwan is really that important US wouldn't have abandoned it altogther in 1979, a decades long ally who helped US win WW2 over Japan, helped US in Korean war and Vietname war... US just chuck it away like useless trash. US can treat Taiwan like trash and abandon it before, how do you know they won't do the same to Taiwan today or in the future?

Your understanding on international politics is either that of a child or two couples in romance.

The UK and US fought side by side in WW1 and WW2. Yet we didn't know any US involvement when Argentina invaded UK sovereign land in the Malvinas 1982.

The US abandoned its recognition of the RoC out of strategic necessities and interest to defeat Soviet Communism's. The idea was to turn one communist nation against the other.

And just like how easily the US switch side out of national interest at the time, the US will once again switch side from neutral to defend Taiwan. Because simply Taiwan is on top of US national interest at the moment.

 

[xizhimen]

Your understanding on international politics is either that of a child or two couples in romance.

The UK and US fought side by side in WW1 and WW2. Yet we didn't know any US involvement when Argentina invaded UK sovereign land in the Malvinas 1982.

The US abandoned its recognition of the RoC out of strategic necessities and interest to defeat Soviet Communism's. The idea was to turn one communist nation against the other.

And just like how easily the US switch side out of national interest at the time, the US will once again switch side from neutral to defend Taiwan. Because simply Taiwan is on top of US national interest at the moment.

Taiwan is calling for help , right now, time to show how credible US is as an ally, whoever starts it should take some responsibility to end it. now.

President Tsai appeals for international support to democratic Taiwan as China steps up military drills

Beleaguered Taiwan on Saturday appealed for international help as it grappled with “simulated attacks” by the Chinese military around the self-ruled island, as Beijing stepped up provocative drills and warplane incursions in the Taiwan Straits in retaliation for US House Speaker Nancy Pe

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[xizhimen]

Ex-diplomat says there are ‘more intelligent ways’ for the U.S. to support Taiwan than to visit​

PUBLISHED FRI, AUG 5 202210:33 PM EDT

Ex-diplomat says there are 'more intelligent ways' for the U.S. to support Taiwan than to visit

Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan could create negative ripple effects and undermine international efforts to support Taiwan in future, analysts say.

www.cnbc.com

Does it mean Pelosi is not " intelligent"?

 

[xizhimen]

‘Harder to defend against’ China to force Taiwan to surrender through ‘economic boycott'​

CHINA could force Taiwan to surrender through an "economic boycott" that would be much "harder to defend against" because foreign forces would struggle to intervene, a former US defence secretary has said.​

By TOM WATLING
19:07, Fri, Aug 5, 2022 | UPDATED: 19:07, Fri, Aug 5, 2022


Former US Assistant deputy defence secretary Jim Townsend told Times Radio that China has more than just military invasion in their arsenal in terms of ways in which they could overrun Taiwan. Mr Townsend claimed China could “slowly squeeze” the island nation through a “blockade”, beginning with taking a few of the “small Taiwanese islands” in the surrounding Strait. It comes as China cut ties with Washington on a number of areas by way of retaliation to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan earlier this week.

Mr Townsend said: “China does not necessarily have to take Taiwan in a military action. They could also slowly squeeze Taiwan by putting up a blockade, by taking a few of these small Taiwanese islands that are in the Straits.

“I mean, there is an incrementalism that the Chinese could take that would certainly squeeze Taiwan to the point where they might have to sue for some type of arrangement with China, something more than they are doing now.

“And that is something that would be difficult for the United States to defend against. If it is an attack, that is one thing.

“But something that is a slow squeeze, an economic boycott, another way to make life very difficult for Taiwan, that is something that is harder to defend against in terms of the United States or Japan. And that kind of tactic is certainly something that China could do.”

China announced on Friday it was halting dialogue with the United States in a number of areas, including between theatre-level military commanders and on climate talks, in an escalating furore over US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan.

China's foreign ministry said it was also suspending cooperation with Washington on the prevention of cross-border crime and drug trafficking, an area along with climate change where US officials see opportunity for cooperation.

Enraged after Pelosi became the highest-level US visitor in 25 years to the self-governed island that Beijing regards as its sovereign territory, China launched military drills in the seas and skies around Taiwan on Thursday. The live-fire drills, the largest ever conducted by China in the Taiwan Strait, are scheduled to continue until noon on Sunday.

Taiwan's defence ministry said on Friday it scrambled jets to warn away Chinese aircraft that it said entered the island's air defence zone, some of which crossed the Taiwan Strait median line, an unofficial buffer separating the two sides.

China could force Taiwan to surrender through an ‘economic boycott'

CHINA could force Taiwan to surrender through an "economic boycott" that would be much "harder to defend against" because foreign forces would struggle to intervene, a former US defence secretary has said.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Nilgiri]

" Speaker of the house Pelosi who made a lifetime out of antagonizing the Chinese was make everything go backwards, she accomplished absolutely nothing. She made a lot of difficulties with people, it's like somebody from Mexico showing up in Texas says we are going to help Texas and becoming an independent again, it's just stupid, can't believe an 82 years old speaker of the house didn't have enough common sense to hold back on this."

Yeah because Texas has its own govt, president and military just like Taiwan

Not even going to click and see which clown said that.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555934842117832706

In 2022, around 200 billion dollars of capital outflow from China was realized. As the U.S. Federal Reserve raised interest rates, raising the dollar's price, and China backing its invasion of Ukraine...

 

[Bogeyman]

Could the US Navy Save Taiwan?​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555258180447469568

The former US deputy chief of staff disagrees with you. He thinks that China has a clear quantitative advantage in Taiwan and that if the US were to go to war, its losses could be compared to World War II.

 

[Gary]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555258180447469568

The former US deputy chief of staff disagrees with you. He thinks that China has a clear quantitative advantage in Taiwan and that if the US were to go to war, its losses could be compared to World War II.

There's actually a war games where the Russians rolled up Poland in 2 weeks.

The problem with this war games is that both the red and blue team are played by US military servicemen. Not the PLA itself playing red teams. And most of them are rigged.

Mark miley the current chief of staff pretty much sums it up.

Milley: US ‘absolutely’ could defend Taiwan from China

The U.S. military “absolutely” could defend Taiwan from a potential Chinese attack if asked to do so, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley said Wednesday.Speaking at the Aspe…

www.google.com

 

[Kathirz]

This is like puting the arguments over the table before a "Cold War". We send a well known politician to Taiwan, to give support and protect their recognition as a "de facto state" and the other shows the real power in the region.

I doubt a lot US will actively protect Taiwan in a hot conflict... there is a lot to lose as China can fight at sea and from main-land. US is not just a few kilometers from Taiwan, even moving their magnificent carrier vessels and destroyers to the hot zone and being supported by regioinal actors. We can see also how much support the Chinesse have built inside Taiwan.

But as we may know if China makes the first move over Taiwan or touches an "ally" ship/plane... the world will know that the next Iphone will have to wait a year more, the time needed to move all the infrastruture to build all west gadgets to a third country/es, including west electric cars and computers. Also the main economic interest over Taiwan could be chip manufacturing (TSMC) but the machinery is developed and built in Europe so we can bring back that important industry, and the taxes applied to their products will nearly stop their main exports. It will be a hard hit to west countries but a really hard one to chinesse ppl, they will have to switch their exportation policies and their high anual GDP growings to their stall and probably decadence.

China also faces another big problem, it advanced greatly on working hard to build west stuff, but not on social freedoms and organization, work laws, freedom of speech, equality, justice, human rights, etc. So you don't know how people will really react to intense events when the things might go south. Another argument to add is many countries "go close the sun which brights more" but chinesse exterior policies and despotic values are not very welcome on developed states, and you will need allies or you will lose any long battle against a big rival.

Propaganda also seemed an important tool for dictatorships but it will be very weak when reallity slaps you in the face.

Times for China could come in a future or never, but I believe it's not the moment.

 

[xizhimen]

Beijing can ease tensions by ending drills, US says​

‘PUNISHING THE WORLD’: US officials called on China to reverse its decision to end cooperation with the US on climate change and other key global issues​

• AFP, WASHINGTON
  

Sun, Aug 07, 2022

The US on Friday condemned China for cutting off bilateral cooperation in a number of key areas and said Beijing could ease tensions over Taiwan by ending its “provocative” live-fire military drills.

US National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said that China’s decision to halt engagement on climate change and other issues was “fundamentally irresponsible.”

“They think they’re punishing us by shutting down this channel,” Kirby told reporters.

“They’re actually punishing the whole world because the climate crisis doesn’t recognize geographic boundaries and borders,” he said. “It’s truly a global and existential crisis.”

“The world’s largest emitter now is refusing to engage on critical steps necessary to combat the climate crisis, which actually impacts our partners from rising sea levels in the Pacific Islands and fires across Europe,” Kirby added.

“We should not hold hostage cooperation on matters of global concern because of differences between our two countries,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a news conference during a visit to Manila.

China earlier said it was ending cooperation with the US on a litany of key issues including climate change, efforts to counter drug trafficking and military talks, as relations between the two countries nosedived over Taiwan.

Beijing has reacted furiously to a visit by US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan.

Since Thursday, China has conducted a series of huge military drills around Taiwan proper, which have been roundly condemned by the US and other countries.

Kirby said China can “go a long way to taking the tensions down by simply stopping these provocative military exercises and ending the rhetoric.”

Singaporean Minister of Foreign Affairs Vivian Balakrishnan told local media following an ASEAN foreign ministers’ meeting on Friday that he has spoken to Chinese Minister of Foreign Affairs Wang Yi (王毅) about the issue.

Balakrishnan told Wang that the “main danger is you have got a lot of ships and planes and missiles massed around there. There is a danger, even though I know you do not want to go to war, but there is a danger of accidents and miscalculations,” a transcript released yesterday by the Singaporean Ministry of Foreign Affairs showed.

“For what it is worth, we repeat the appeal that for the rest of us in Southeast Asia, we actually want temperatures to come down. It is actually very important for Southeast Asia, for China and the United States to get along,” he said.

“Once you split [the US-China relations] apart, it means higher prices, it means less efficient supply chains. It means a more divided world, a more disrupted and dangerous world. Those are the stakes,” he said.

Beijing can ease tensions by ending drills, US says - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

 

[xizhimen]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555258180447469568

The former US deputy chief of staff disagrees with you. He thinks that China has a clear quantitative advantage in Taiwan and that if the US were to go to war, its losses could be compared to World War II.

Of course, if US believes they could win they could've swooped in a blink of an eye like what they did in Afganistan, Libya, Iraq and Syria. they will make up fake pretexts that you have WMD or harbor "terrorists" or no pretexts at all.

 

[xizhimen]

This is like puting the arguments over the table before a "Cold War". We send a well known politician to Taiwan, to give support and protect their recognition as a "de facto state" and the other shows the real power in the region.

I doubt a lot US will actively protect Taiwan in a hot conflict... there is a lot to lose as China can fight at sea and from main-land. US is not just a few kilometers from Taiwan, even moving their magnificent carrier vessels and destroyers to the hot zone and being supported by regioinal actors. We can see also how much support the Chinesse have built inside Taiwan.

But as we may know if China makes the first move over Taiwan or touches an "ally" ship/plane... the world will know that the next Iphone will have to wait a year more, the time needed to move all the infrastruture to build all west gadgets to a third country/es, including west electric cars and computers. Also the main economic interest over Taiwan could be chip manufacturing (TSMC) but the machinery is developed and built in Europe so we can bring back that important industry, and the taxes applied to their products will nearly stop their main exports. It will be a hard hit to west countries but a really hard one to chinesse ppl, they will have to switch their exportation policies and their high anual GDP growings to their stall and probably decadence.

China also faces another big problem, it advanced greatly on working hard to build west stuff, but not on social freedoms and organization, work laws, freedom of speech, equality, justice, human rights, etc. So you don't know how people will really react to intense events when the things might go south. Another argument to add is many countries "go close the sun which brights more" but chinesse exterior policies and despotic values are not very welcome on developed states, and you will need allies or you will lose any long battle against a big rival.

Propaganda also seemed an important tool for dictatorships but it will be very weak when reallity slaps you in the face.

Times for China could come in a future or never, but I believe it's not the moment.

This is from western perspective, not from non western perspective, I lived in the west for many years, and I can tell from first hand experience western values and ethnics are not their strength, they are their biggest weakness, the cause of the true decadence, as for how much support China can get from the Chinese public, you can google to find them out. You don't know how much Chinese government improved the standard of living of the average Chinese people and how much the Chinese public benefited during the past a couple of decades.

Most in China Call Their Nation A Democracy, Most in U.S. Say America Isn't

Latana political research consultant Frederick Deveaux told Newsweek such studies "determine who is winning the battle of democracy in the eyes of the public."

www.newsweek.com

Vilified abroad, popular at home: China's Communist Party at 100

As China’s Communist Party prepares for its 100th anniversary, it has shored up popular support at home. But challenges lie ahead.

www.csmonitor.com