Clashes with China: Indian warships were deployed at forward positions, says Navy Chief

[xizhimen]

The only blue water navy on Earth is the US Navy, Royal Navy and The French Navy.

What British and French Navy are capable of doesn't concern China, China has her whole sight on US navy, without US navy's support, British and French navy are nothing to worry about.
China will take advantagel of her juggernaut of world leading shipbuilding capacity to catch up in the next decade. In the next decade, US will retire many decades old legacy ships and China will commission many new modern ships.

 

[Gary]

What British and French Navy are capable of doesn't concern China, China has her whole sight on US navy, without US navy's support, British and French navy are nothing to worry about.

You sure about that ?? China might have the tools, but to be honest, the PLAN are still green and in now way a match for the experienced crew of the French and Royal Navy.

John wick with a pencil is more dangerous than bodyguards with an assault rifle. The Western navy are like that John Wick, they're simply more experienced.

China will take advantagel of her juggernaut of world leading shipbuilding capacity to catch up in the next decade. In the next decade, US will retire many decades old legacy ships and China will commission many new modern ships.

You only have this decade to take Taiwan before the combined US+Allied might makes it once more an overmatch for the US.
Those Type 052D, 054A and 055 you launch in rapid succession ?? they'll eventually need some repairs and that will constrain China's shipyard in the coming future. In the end of this decade the US will likely have:

• 100 DDG-51s (just as powerful as your type 055)
• 3 Zumwalt class DDG with hypersonic missiles
• at least 20 Constellation class FFG (which is the same size with your 052D DDG)
• at least 2 new Ford CVN on top of the existing 11 Supercarriers
• at least 2 new FLT IA America class LHD
• at least 35-40 Virginia SSN
• at least 40 LCS

Even if let say the US retired all its Ticonderoga's, the US Army and Marines will fill the gap by deploying long range missiles in the 1st and 2nd island chain. Now add that to the US and its allies (JMSDF, RAN, RN and possibly RoKN) naval assets which could be brought in.

Currently, Japan's JMSDF operate at least 51 large surface combatants + 2 aircraft carriers + 25 submarines (all modern), by the end of the decade they will add:

• 2 new AEGIS destroyer with AN/SPY-6 radar
• 22 Mogami class frigate
• 4 new OPV
• 10 new submarine

Taiwan currently has around 26 destroyers and frigates while Australia operate at least 12 destroyers and frigates, with the 9 type 26 frigate (actually a destroyer) to be inducted to the fleet.

By hull number alone, you would not win. Now add the most important part which is the crew. The probability of a successful Taiwan invasion just dropped by a significant degree.

 

[xizhimen]

You sure about that ?? China might have the tools, but to be honest, the PLAN are still green and in now way a match for the experienced crew of the French and Royal Navy.

John wick with a pencil is more dangerous than bodyguards with an assault rifle. The Western navy are like that John Wick, they're simply more experienced.

Pretty sure, without US, British and French navies are nothing, we can build a whole British or French navy in a couple of years.

 

[xizhimen]

You only have this decade to take Taiwan before the combined US+Allied might makes it once more an overmatch for the US.

Time is on our side, we are not in a hurry at all, economy is always our first top priority. Taiwan is not a ship, it can't sail away.
And don't be naive, no foreign powers will put their heads on the chopping board for Taiwan. Bragging for someone is one thing, putting your life for this someone is a totally different story.

 

[Gary]

Time is on our side, we are not in a hurry at all, economy is always our first top priority.

actually no, you don't have any time at all. China is currently:

1. Facing a growing birth problem
2. Global animosity driven by US efforts and China's miscalculation
3. Government clamp down on profitable enterprise and personalities
4. Growing domestic problem

Combined this will be a significant headwind for China to overtake the US, there's a real fear in China that your country will grow old before before becoming rich.

History suggest that when a country faces a dimming prospect of growth they will try to divert public attention by intiating war. This is called the law of diminishing window of opportunity.

China will likely try to divert public attention from CCP failing by rallying the public against Taiwan.

The thing is unlike the Himalayan front. A war with Taiwan pretty much comes to aerial and naval combat, an arena in which the favors are almost guaranteed for the US+allies.

 

[Gary]

Pretty sure, without US, British and French navies are nothing, we can build a whole British or French navy in a couple of years.

This comes from a country who's naval victory in the last 3 century are non existent.

 

[xizhimen]

actually no, you don't have any time at all. China is currently:

1. Facing a growing birth problem
2. Global animosity driven by US efforts and China's miscalculation
3. Government clamp down on profitable enterprise and personalities
4. Growing domestic problem

Combined this will be a significant headwind for China to overtake the US, there's a real fear in China that your country will grow old before before becoming rich.

History suggest that when a country faces a dimming prospect of growth they will try to divert public attention by intiating war. This is called the law of diminishing window of opportunity.

China will likely try to divert public attention from CCP failing by rallying the public against Taiwan.

The thing is unlike the Himalayan front. A war with Taiwan pretty much comes to aerial and naval combat, an arena in which the favors are almost guaranteed for the US+allies.

Then have to say let's agree to disagree

 

[xizhimen]

This comes from a country who's naval victory in the last 3 century are non existent.

A world power can be powerful and undefeated until they are defeated, this is what history tells us.

 

[Gary]

A world power can be powerful and undefeated until they are defeated, this is what history tells us.

Exactly, what makes you think that PLAN victory is assured ?

Just because they're smaller ? Here's what a small French fleet done to a larger Chinese fleet back then.

Battle of Fuzhou - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[xizhimen]

Exactly, what makes you think that PLAN victory is assured ?

Just because they're smaller ? Here's what a small French fleet done to a larger Chinese fleet back then.

Battle of Fuzhou - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

1884? We never denied even a small country like Belgium can easily kick China's butt during "one hundred years humiliation of the Chinese nation". but that is not a good arguement to talk about the current global situation.

8 foreign powers took over China's capital Beijing in 1900

 

[Gary]

1884? We never denied even a small country like Belgium can easily kick China's butt during "one hundred years humiliation of the Chinese nation". but that is not a good arguement to talk about the current global situation.

That is actually a very good argument even to this day? Just like back then, naval combat were pretty much decided by the human first, technology second.

So what have your China contribute to modern naval tactics? How about nothing ? As I said, those ships are only tools, China could brag to be able to build the entire RN and French navy in a year but those ships, they're not going to fight themselves, they'll eventually operate with a crew to fight the ship.

And when it comes to crew, your China is as green as a daily driver compared to major Western navies, let alone the USN.

 

[xizhimen]

That is actually a very good argument even to this day? Just like back then, naval combat were pretty much decided by the human first, technology second.

If you believe what happened in 1884 about the Chinese ships have much to do with today's Chinese navy and warfare, I have nothing more to add then. Let's just wait and see, agree to disagree.

 

[Gary]

If you believe what happened in 1884 about the Chinese ships have much to do with today's Chinese navy and warfare, I have nothing more to add then.

Off course you have nothing to add, the gist of your argument is that because China could build a specific tools (ships, planes etc) then victory is assured.

Think about an F1 car, could China build one? Probably yes. But could China find a set of crew to challenge Scuderia Ferrari or Mercedes Team ?

When it comes to naval and air combat you're potentially facing the equivalent of those teams like Ferrari and Mercedes. And the best you only have is a local daily driver .

 

[xizhimen]

Off course you have nothing to add, the gist of your argument is that because China could build a specific tools (ships, planes etc) then victory is assured.

Think about an F1 car, could China build one? Probably yes. But could China find a set of crew to challenge Scuderia Ferrari or Mercedes Team ?

When it comes to naval and air combat you're potentially facing the equivalent of those teams like Ferrari and Mercedes. And the best you only have is a local daily driver .

This is a very unique theory, lol, but actually I indeed hope US policitians and generals could be convinced by you and stop behaving like chicken running around with a head cut off when it comes to China.

 

[Jackdaws]

The only blue water navy on Earth is the US Navy, Royal Navy and The French Navy.


The likes of China, Russia, India actually fells in the green water navy as they could not sustain operations globally.

That's an incorrect perception.

 

[Jackdaws]

Time is on our side, we are not in a hurry at all, economy is always our first top priority. Taiwan is not a ship, it can't sail away.
And don't be naive, no foreign powers will put their heads on the chopping board for Taiwan. Bragging for someone is one thing, putting your life for this someone is a totally different story.

Of course Taiwan isn't going anywhere. It is going to continue to exist as Republic of China while the PRC twiddle its thumbs and raves and rants.