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Its not about leadership,never was.
As you might have noticed both leaders dont like each other that much.
We are allies,above politics.
As you might have noticed both leaders dont like each other that much.
We are allies,above politics.
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No,thats not the way.
It should be in private conversations between the two leaders (and delegations).
I don't think head of states are some individuals , their personal likes and dislikes means nothing only the national interests are what matters the most .
You remember Mahatir Mohammed of Malaysia , he said something which was against Indian national interest and we reciprocated in the same way but without speaking much ( on govt level) and you know what happened after that ..
Indian govt. and Turkish govt may not be on the same page all the time but almost refrained from commenting on each others sensitive issues
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Governments come and go,the important thing is the people to people relation.
For instance,my BFF is the old man @Joe Shearer .
We indians have no beef with Turkey and I think this feeling is mutual ….. I think India - Turkey relation have nothing to do with Pakistan.
@Joe Shearer your views are required on this ........
It will be worse ....do you know there is a cease fire on LOC from last 1 year .
No one knows who discussed the terms from both sides ?
No one knows who initiated/mediated the tasks?
I think such statements are just statements when either you know the other side will not listen to you or you are not the actual power center of the country.
A question to you , who you think runs Pakistan ?
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Well that didn't stop Erdogan from supporting pak's stance on Kashmir and that too at UNGA while representing Turkey at the highest level
If we're talking at a people-to-people level, I don't think even most Indians and pakistanis have hatred for each other and this applies for most rival country populations
What difference it will make if Turkey "just" supports Pakistan in UN like India supported Palestine in UN .
Real issue is when they starting doing something which will compromise the Indian interests , which I dont think they are doing . Regarding people to people with Pakistan after 26/11 , the equation is pretty much changed.
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That's not how it works. Why do you think we retaliated by reducing trade with Malaysia when Mahathir made statements about Kashmir!! Do you think the Chinese will keep mum if any country voiced in support of an independent Taiwan!! The Brits got all riled up when China supported Argentinian stance on Falklands ...all these and several such have no changes on-ground
Diplomacy and foreign policy also includes bringing more countries onboard our narrative over our adversary's irrespective of the on-ground situation
This is the assumption one gets after lurking on defence forums but an average Indian or pakistani hardly cares about what's happening across the border
L
TV debate including country's president?
it's like 90ies Turkey... how backwards
it's like 90ies Turkey... how backwards
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It goes worse than that tbh.
He has called Modi names like fascist...nazi in open international arena....
I will never talk with him as long as he is there blah blah
Now wants to have a debate with the fascist/nazi?
I thought there is no talking with nazis and fascists? once you label someone as it...for the assertion to matter in basic consistent way?
Or you backtrack hypocritically on something so extreme for some spotlight attempt again?
Its a pay attention to me syndrome...indicative of the DHA psyche and complex (reality catches up, the fantasy/delusion needs to become more insular for it, no matter the cost on both).
You have to remember the PM is just the highest DHA spokesperson.
Another one comes to mind lately....right as India signed big trade deal with UAE.
Some big wig suddenly talking about "trade" with India.... after all the complaint drama (by DHA) that India is trying to isolate them, west was never a genuine economic partner like CCP, UAE and gulfies are this and that etc etc
Like make up your mind sheeesh....which one is it?
In no particular order these all come to mind (from just this current crop of DHA spokespeople):
- fawad ISRO laughing
- mahathir + erdogan summit and MBS/UAE saying nuhhhh-uh-uh and IK being a no show on that instruction
(this is made even more funny now in hindsight by Erdogan UAE rapprochement)
- Their SBP Chairman making the most mind numbingly stupid statement about remittances and overseas diaspora while visiting london...this guy is in charge of a central bank?
- DHA goes on CNN, foreign minister insinuating the whole " jews run the whole media" trope. Yeah great way to have a dialogue buster.
- bajwa "tensions" with civvy executive (what else is new there though).
- Continued pattycake pattycake 1-2-3 drama with the current running list of political exiles in london and UK govt esp.judicial branch
- AFG quagmire blowback...Taliban good, but bad...but good but bad. Premature celebrations coming to haunt now.
- Xi loans and bailouts....and Xi always head nods and courtesy smiles.....and then inevitably in the end sends a shanghai, canton or hakka team to nickel and dime severely on the ground....that causes huge leverage and pain for later that DHA will again blame on the west
(the west that by FAR buys most of the limited stuff they sell to begin with...not to mention remittances and safe harbour refuge for DHA in london as they play musical chairs).
- If we stay on FATF grey list its purely due to "politics" (after all that they financed and the continued safe harbour of UN designated terrorists).
- now the guy gonna visit Putin for talks....expecting something serious....like nothing is going on with russia right now....lmao
I could list a lot more...these will have to do for now....
Their "pay attention to me" foreign policy have been great success as borat would put it.
I mean I guess something up there has to keep pace with the conspiracy theories of the mouthbreathing foaming "thought" mobs regarding the OBL raid, Mumbai terror attacks, unholy Zion... and whatever else. DHA and DHA larper psyche again.
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I try really hard each time to take this stuff seriously (when it even gets my attention to begin with), I guess I'll have to try even harder...shrug.
As far as India is involved, it should be stone-cold focused on building its domestic savings from 1 trillion USD to 2 and then 3 trillion this decade. We will learn from each political cycle as need be and make corrections....we have enough trust reposited for it. It is low relatively speaking (to developed world) but growing and certainly not miniscule and stuck.
It is Pakistan being stuck here at 20 billion USD for 20 years now (and stuck there for forseeable future) that is prompting the cringe theatrics from their political class (DHA) and their lackey/apologist larpers (especially online).
They just don't know much about this core underlying number in any serious way, but the feeling something is way off and stuck finds its way increasingly regardless.
That number is the final basic summation of trust their people actually have in their system.... one that is lower (per capita) than most of sub saharan africa.
If the political class keeps its fascism-assertion as some operating principle (that it then hypocritically forgets for some other highlight reel like in this case).... India should simply say that political class can first acknowledge their REALISED fascism on East Pakistan....so we have an actual genuine reference point to take further.
Normie + genuine regular pakistanis (that basically have scruples on politics and fascism-assertion with little hypocrisy or at least agree to disagree and move on to productive exchange)....we should bear no ill will to and we should make friends with them via UAE or the relevant foreign meeting and playing grounds.
The power-freak and their psyche (given this brazen deranged version of it), should be observed at most and responded to in the most minimalist fashion.
We have enough of our own psyche and power-freak stuff to address at home.....tons of it....and there is much to do in shaping it optimally. Time and effort must be prioritised.
If we are closing in on 100 Chess Grandmasters at a furious rate....and Iran is doing fairly well there too....should we really focus on countries that produce zero (but wedged right in between)?...and worse will continue to produce zero because of their DHA mind and trust issue?
Same case with Ballistic missile tech ---> space tech. Some countries can do it....others have psyche issues that get in their way and just sit on their (chinese donated) Ballistic missiles painting them and repainting them....always scratching their head and going "b-b-b-but the Taliban were supposed to be the gooood guys?"
If the DHA political class wont come clean on East Pakistan (getting 93,000 back promptly on their word that they will)...really we should have taken a stone cold approach a lot earlier....
Actual fascists ring hollow when they cry fascism you see....and they leave the void of karma for the long term reality check.
I love that Taliban one --> victory of Islam ---->defeat of US ---> Taliban killing Pakistanis are not actual Taliban----> still killing going on ----> All Taliban are bad ( all happened in 6 months ) LoL
Paro
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Lol, the guy with the spectacles is Imran Khan right now.
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This is one of the major reason BJP won and may won again , ask some Indian on the forum you like to translate :
@Joe Shearer waiting for your analysis why BJP won and will win again
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I just hope, there is no more war between Pakistan and India. Alas, ironically, the best way to prevent conflict between both countries to Goes full blown is to maintain total superiority and deterrence of one side to prevent the other ones had some funny ideas. You don't need to mention which one has more funny ideas compared to other
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Required?
Yes, massa.
To begin with, I've been almost fanatically devoted to Ataturk ever since I read about him first. He is the only man in Asia who had his thinking straight, and every single step he took for post-khilafat Turkey shows that.
Strangely, for a country that has seen such hard times for neglecting his record and doing very strange things, the founding spirit of Pakistan, Jinnah, was also a firm admirer of Ataturk. It would break Jinnah's heart if he were alive today, and saw what one set of Pakistanis has done to the country that he helped them to form.
Even today, with the increase in religiosity and with a swing to the right, and the compromises on some of Ataturk's ideals, Turkey remains, and the Turks remain, people to be emulated. They have done almost everything right, and it is embarrassing that their scientific and technical advances, and their continued liberal outlook on life, allowing foreigners and strangers to behave much as they do in their own homes and countries (within reason) without imposing rules on them makes them rank among the civilised first world countries. Those who have settled in other European countries have made themselves good citizens who fit in comfortably with their adopted country, with none of the drama and the aggravations that some other nationalities and ethnicities have shown.
Their defence technology is breathtakingly advanced. It is amazing that such a relatively small country - India is enormous compared to them - should be pushing the envelope in every desirable field, but most strikingly in the areas of naval architecture, of UAV design and deployment, and of armoured vehicle development. Those are three chosen at random. That technology supports a military noted for its fearsome courage and fighting spirit for, now, centuries; in recent times, their track record in the Korean War was breathtaking, and their admirers among allied soldiers who fought in Korea still keep the admiration strong.
Individually, Turks are principled and say what they think, and do what they say. It is a world-wide disgrace that no one has stood up for and come to the aid of the Uyghur; only Turkey, and Turks, had the gumption to call a spade a spade, and expose Chinese genocide for what it is. In stark, plain terms. Now that the good and reliable friend of India, Russia, has decided to lash out against the west, for taking up the vacuum that was formed between the easternmost NATO countries and Russia herself, and has decided to make an example of Ukraine, India has found it hard to decide what to do, and what to say to the world about this extremely dangerous situation. I am not an admirer of Erdogan, but am forced to admit that he is, above all, not a hypocrite. He has clearly and bluntly come to the side of the Ukrainians, in spite of his own very mixed feelings about NATO, and about the European Union, that had made it clear to him and to every other Turk that possessing European feelings and behaving according to the highest standards of European behaviour was not enough, he has acted in a straightforward and manly way. If only our own demagogue had any principles, or the courage to uphold these principles! He does not, so we continue to wallow in a welter of words, looking like backboneless, spineless creatures in front of the world.
You raised the question of Pakistan.
The straightforward way to deal with this should be what the Turks themselves might have done. We should approach the Turkish government and tell them clearly that it is for them to be friends with whomsoever they want, but that we Indians want their friendship and that we do not look for equations with others, that friendship with a country that is sometimes very hostile towards us does not mean that they have to be our enemies, and that we are willing to enter into cordial trade, industrial and defence related cooperation with their country without pre-conditions or questioning their existing relations. We should do as they are doing, to normalise relations with every other country, and not put up artificial barriers. Their friendship with Pakistan is nothing to do with our reasons to seek their friendship.
Let me know if you have more questions.
