India Coffee House

[Zafer]

Turkish journalist's talk about the issue.

 

[Ryder]

I hope the best for India. If this turns into a full blown civil war its going to have lots of consequences.

I cannot imagine how Muslim extremists and Hindu extremists want this full blown war to happen. Whats the reasons? A score to settle or is it just various factors in contributing to the hostile atmosphere.

I feel like calmer heads will win the day i doubt the average Muslim and the average Hindu want to go have war against each other.

 

[Nilgiri]

I hope the best for India. If this turns into a full blown civil war its going to have lots of consequences.

I cannot imagine how Muslim extremists and Hindu extremists want this full blown war to happen. Whats the reasons? A score to settle or is it just various factors in contributing to the hostile atmosphere.

I feel like calmer heads will win the day i doubt the average Muslim and the average Hindu want to go have war against each other.

It won't turn into anything like a civil war.

Some cretins (and their underlings) are getting emboldened and pushing buttons that were denied them before....because of overton window shift by current political administration (and large part of its formative emotional basis).

It is most unfortunate India has meandered here....but lot of countries have charted well past it and hemmed themselves in by having the proper systems (of checks and balances and institutions and societal tolerant bedrock) developed to take on those pressures when they came to further head.

It is underlooked study, the "cold" civil wars that did not precipitate to a hot one (we tend to study just the hot ones and model every situation today on those). We see one forming in (far more developed than India) US in a different way right now for example.

i.e how are you able to handle identity politics blowing up. It confronts each and every country of scale and heterogeneity at some point...and its ebbs and flows.

There are also signals that this (current tension) will blow over (though it could last quite a long time given the political headwind inertia pushing it):

- Lot of strong voices calling this crap out (incl retired admirals, generals etc)

- Muslims (and other minorities) feeling overall secure and confident in India in deep polling/surveying (like Pew global* did) no matter the political headwind being faced right now.

- Muslims counter demonstrating about their loyalty to India. (Sad its come to this, but they are doing it and showing their deepness within India, reminding larger population we are all in it together).

- Many of these mainstream Muslims now avidly take on the extremist/alarmist/defeatist Muslim (and other) minorities to nip those kind of cretins in the bud (that are feeding extra unnecessary energy + oxygen along with the anti-national self-hating "woke" types.... to these right-wing extremist nutcases calling most of the shots on this current conflagration)

Cry the beloved country.....

....but those of us that know it best must stay tough and see it through. This is a continent of a country in every sense.


*https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-findings-about-religion-in-india/

 

[Ryder]

It won't turn into anything like a civil war.

Some cretins (and their underlings) are getting emboldened and pushing buttons that were denied them before....because of overton window shift by current political administration (and large part of its formative emotional basis).

It is most unfortunate India has meandered here....but lot of countries have charted well past it and hemmed themselves in by having the proper systems (of checks and balances and institutions and societal tolerant bedrock) developed to take on those pressures when they came to further head.

It is underlooked study, the "cold" civil wars that did not precipitate to a hot one (we tend to study just the hot ones and model every situation today on those). We see one forming in (far more developed than India) US in a different way right now for example.

i.e how are you able to handle identity politics blowing up. It confronts each and every country of scale and heterogeneity at some point...and its ebbs and flows.

There are also signals that this (current tension) will blow over (though it could last quite a long time given the political headwind inertia pushing it):

- Lot of strong voices calling this crap out (incl retired admirals, generals etc)

- Muslims (and other minorities) feeling overall secure and confident in India in deep polling/surveying (like Pew global* did) no matter the political headwind being faced right now.

- Muslims counter demonstrating about their loyalty to India. (Sad its come to this, but they are doing it and showing their deepness within India, reminding larger population we are all in it together).

- Many of these mainstream Muslims now avidly take on the extremist/alarmist/defeatist Muslim (and other) minorities to nip those kind of cretins in the bud (that are feeding extra unnecessary energy + oxygen along with the anti-national self-hating "woke" types.... to these right-wing extremist nutcases calling most of the shots on this current conflagration)

Cry the beloved country.....

....but those of us that know it best must stay tough and see it through. This is a continent of a country in every sense.


*https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/29/key-findings-about-religion-in-india/

I do get Muslim rule was not all rosy for Hindus to be honest. A lot of the Muslim rulers became apart of India itself rather than being outsiders.

Indian Muslims have always been apart of India for centuries. Majority of their dna are from India itself not from Turks, Arabs, Afghans or Persians.

History is not a black and white thing. A lot of the Muslim rulers also allied and employed Hindus and Buddhists in their empire.

 

[Nilgiri]

Recently, The despicable shithead (in the OP post) got arrested and awaiting prosecution in jail:

Hindu monk jailed after calling for 'genocide' of Muslims

Indian police say that a Hindu monk has been charged with inciting religious violence after he called for the “genocide” of India’s Muslims at a meeting of right-wing supporters

abcnews.go.com

 

[Nilgiri]

I do get Muslim rule was not all rosy for Hindus to be honest. A lot of the Muslim rulers became apart of India itself rather than being outsiders.

Indian Muslims have always been apart of India for centuries. Majority of their dna are from India itself not from Turks, Arabs, Afghans or Persians.

History is not a black and white thing. A lot of the Muslim rulers also allied and employed Hindus and Buddhists in their empire.

History is to study and understand.

It is not to live and try recreate to re-experience or re-visit on whomever you feel it should around you.

Sins of the father die with him....in each and every instance.

Every benefit of doubt + good faith to his descendants should be given by default....

.....as a fellow human being to you.


But this is not the approach taken by sufficient enough people everywhere in world.

They want to live + repeat + "redeem" history.... on what they perceive as the progeny needing cudgel.

This is a mental emotional thing in the end.....it takes reason prisoner.

This then percolates upwards (to corridors of power) in various ways.

In fact its always been there residing universally in every country. It is question of how you keep it contained.

Somewhat easier the smaller and more homogeneous you are.

This current percolation will have its impact on India, but it wont be genocidal or civil war level of it.....because there is a deep enough trust, tolerance and working relationship in enough Indians at large.

 

[Jackdaws]

Turkish journalist's talk about the issue.

What's he saying?

 

[Jackdaws]

I do get Muslim rule was not all rosy for Hindus to be honest. A lot of the Muslim rulers became apart of India itself rather than being outsiders.

Indian Muslims have always been apart of India for centuries. Majority of their dna are from India itself not from Turks, Arabs, Afghans or Persians.

History is not a black and white thing. A lot of the Muslim rulers also allied and employed Hindus and Buddhists in their empire.

Tbh, my concern isn't civil war. It's the radicalization of the population who are young voters in the 18-25 age range.

Forget libraries - an entire generation over the last 10 years has grown up based on poisonous WhatsApp forwards which purport half truths and outright lies.

 

[Jackdaws]

This is what I am talking about

Facebook stalling report on human rights impact in India, allege whistleblowers

Papers leaked by Frances Haugen revealed users in India were inundated with fake news and anti-Muslim posts

www.theguardian.com

 

[Zafer]

What's he saying?

He is reporting that the Indian government is not responding to calls for genocide like a normal government should.
And that it is going towards a civil war with potential consequences for neighboring Pakistan too.
Saying no one would invest in India.

My addition:
Bad news for Indian expats.
Bad news for Indian exports.
Bad news for Indian drama sector exports.

 

[Jackdaws]

He is reporting that the Indian government is not responding to calls for genocide like a normal government should.
And that it is going towards a civil war with potential consequences for neighboring Pakistan too.
Saying no one would invest in India.

My addition:
Bad news for Indian expats.
Bad news for Indian exports.
Bad news for Indian drama sector exports.

It causes a lot of outrage in India already.

 

[Lonewolf]

First , of all this hue and cry , this call for genocide from hindu side is for the first time , but implementation of genocide from Indian muslim community is a fact , take it Kashmir , or the Kerala upper districts , or the mischief in Hyderabad old cities .

Even the brother of a politician openly calls for genocide of Hindus , lot of fatwa and those sar tan se juda(beheading ) banners and rallies against Hindus is a common thing for someone who lived in a radicalized M majority area .

@Jackdaws @Nilgiri you guys pray for social harmony ,but you are too older than me and u better understand that it requires both hands to clap and both hands to shake hands .

I live in a state where m population is not so high ,but all those cases of girls running away and later found chopped in bags have accused belonging to a particular community , this is my observation in last 5 years , and yet nobody calls this out as outright communal disharmony . But bury their head in sand , but some loud mouth just makes few speeches which they don't have means for implementation as temple don't have funds for their preist to do something like this .

And @Zafer those good guys who made peace with hindus are regarded as kafirs in radicalized section , which forms majority in some areas .

Now how would you like a person to react , @Jackdaws those slogans in post bengal election time as fake anti muslim propoganda or those dead bodies of innocent people from hindu community killed by mob raising particular slogans and videos doing rounds and being verified as fake , or as per your theory bjp and radical hindus wore skull cap and did all this to create unrest , am i right ?

It was bjp who massacred kashmiri pandits ,so when they come in power they can exploit the Muslim of Kashmir , am i right ?

You stand for womens right , yes or no ? So you think all those statements of a particular community during CAA and triple talaq(divorce by saying divorce three times if husband wish to do so) removal were made by radical hindus in disguise .

You don't want to face reality doesn't mean reality don't exist .

 

[Jackdaws]

First , of all this hue and cry , this call for genocide from hindu side is for the first time , but implementation of genocide from Indian muslim community is a fact , take it Kashmir , or the Kerala upper districts , or the mischief in Hyderabad old cities .

Even the brother of a politician openly calls for genocide of Hindus , lot of fatwa and those sar tan se juda(beheading ) banners and rallies against Hindus is a common thing for someone who lived in a radicalized M majority area .

@Jackdaws @Nilgiri you guys pray for social harmony ,but you are too older than me and u better understand that it requires both hands to clap and both hands to shake hands .

I live in a state where m population is not so high ,but all those cases of girls running away and later found chopped in bags have accused belonging to a particular community , this is my observation in last 5 years , and yet nobody calls this out as outright communal disharmony . But bury their head in sand , but some loud mouth just makes few speeches which they don't have means for implementation as temple don't have funds for their preist to do something like this .

And @Zafer those good guys who made peace with hindus are regarded as kafirs in radicalized section , which forms majority in some areas .

Now how would you like a person to react , @Jackdaws those slogans in post bengal election time as fake anti muslim propoganda or those dead bodies of innocent people from hindu community killed by mob raising particular slogans and videos doing rounds and being verified as fake , or as per your theory bjp and radical hindus wore skull cap and did all this to create unrest , am i right ?

It was bjp who massacred kashmiri pandits ,so when they come in power they can exploit the Muslim of Kashmir , am i right ?

You stand for womens right , yes or no ? So you think all those statements of a particular community during CAA and triple talaq(divorce by saying divorce three times if husband wish to do so) removal were made by radical hindus in disguise .

You don't want to face reality doesn't mean reality don't exist .

Don't mix issues. Yes, Kashmiri Pandits were driven out by Kashmiri Muslims. This is well documented.

 

[Zafer]

First , of all this hue and cry , this call for genocide from hindu side is for the first time , but implementation of genocide from Indian muslim community is a fact , take it Kashmir , or the Kerala upper districts , or the mischief in Hyderabad old cities .

Even the brother of a politician openly calls for genocide of Hindus , lot of fatwa and those sar tan se juda(beheading ) banners and rallies against Hindus is a common thing for someone who lived in a radicalized M majority area .

@Jackdaws @Nilgiri you guys pray for social harmony ,but you are too older than me and u better understand that it requires both hands to clap and both hands to shake hands .

I live in a state where m population is not so high ,but all those cases of girls running away and later found chopped in bags have accused belonging to a particular community , this is my observation in last 5 years , and yet nobody calls this out as outright communal disharmony . But bury their head in sand , but some loud mouth just makes few speeches which they don't have means for implementation as temple don't have funds for their preist to do something like this .

And @Zafer those good guys who made peace with hindus are regarded as kafirs in radicalized section , which forms majority in some areas .

Now how would you like a person to react , @Jackdaws those slogans in post bengal election time as fake anti muslim propoganda or those dead bodies of innocent people from hindu community killed by mob raising particular slogans and videos doing rounds and being verified as fake , or as per your theory bjp and radical hindus wore skull cap and did all this to create unrest , am i right ?

It was bjp who massacred kashmiri pandits ,so when they come in power they can exploit the Muslim of Kashmir , am i right ?

You stand for womens right , yes or no ? So you think all those statements of a particular community during CAA and triple talaq(divorce by saying divorce three times if husband wish to do so) removal were made by radical hindus in disguise .

You don't want to face reality doesn't mean reality don't exist .

There is a 1 to 6 population ratio between between Muslims and Hindus in India.
Now tell me again which side is facing danger.

 

[crixus]

There is a 1 to 6 population ratio between between Muslims and Hindus in India.
Now tell me again which side is facing danger.

Not every where they are 1 to 6 , they are in majority in Kashmir and they drove out the minority Hindus just on the basis of their religion ( perfect example of ethnic cleansing) . They are in majority in Mallapuram in Kerala they literally drove the minorities (Hindus and Christians) out , In Mewat Haryana , Muslims are in majority and some villages are now completely non Muslims free .

In Indian context where ever Muslims are in majority , automatically non Muslims get vanished. As a Turk , it may sound harsh but on ground in India such thing are pretty common and real .

 

[Lonewolf]

Don't mix issues. Yes, Kashmiri Pandits were driven out by Kashmiri Muslims. This is well documented.

I ain't mixing issues , the behaviour of that particular community is in no way of a law abiding community in the south asian region and if they think that they will do all kind of shit where they are in majority and remain unscratched everywhere else in country , that's a misunderstanding , majority population is getting tired of being the good guy , and with more penetration of the holy books of islam , the hatred against idol worshipper is getting more clearer , and it would have been a much better situation if they didn't had a live demonstration of that hatred in their own country . So it's better if the community stop harrassing the majority first , it is pressing the panic button in the mind of a common Hindu person , and this change is gonna get worse from here , instead of white washing try making a radical M understand that he will not only be butchered by army but his family will face social boycott , i know condition of a average muslim in Kashmir after someone joins militancy and they see his body on road and blood and flesh spread over the area , that's the last thing a parent would like to see , so instead of that gazwa e hind bullshit that I have heard from the so called educated ones too , they should teach them some nationalism and secularism .

 

[Zafer]

Not every where they are 1 to 6 , they are in majority in Kashmir and they drove out the minority Hindus just on the basis of their religion ( perfect example of ethnic cleansing) . They are in majority in Mallapuram in Kerala they literally drove the minorities (Hindus and Christians) out , In Mewat Haryana , Muslims are in majority and some villages are now completely non Muslims free .

In Indian context where ever Muslims are in majority , automatically non Muslims get vanished. As a Turk , it may sound harsh but on ground in India such thing are pretty common and real .

Is there any proof to back up your claims?

A few people getting lost happens anywhere in the world while calling for killing of people at genocidal scale is really rare.

 

[Lonewolf]

There is a 1 to 6 population ratio between between Muslims and Hindus in India.
Now tell me again which side is facing danger.

Tell that to the average radical guy who seethe on why his sister is studying . Radicalization in south Asia is beyond understanding of a average Turk , you guys are abused so badly just because you guys respect Ataturk , and chose western culture.

No genocide will happen , Hindus have never done a genocide in their entire existence , against our tradition and religion , though not true for other community .

So chill nothing will happen , but if some muslim majority areas tries to be the bad boy , they will surely become example for rest of the country , example Kashmir for starters .

 

[Lonewolf]

Is there any proof to back up your claims?

A few people getting lost happens anywhere in the world while calling for killing of people at genocidal scale is really rare.

U want proof , let me give you proof .

Assault on T. J. Joseph - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

His wife committed suicide as justice can't be delivered to her as she was from minority .

'Hindu Genocide': Protests over West Bengal post-poll violence in 30+ countries, Amit Malviya shares pictures

BJP's West Bengal in-charge Amit Malviya shared pictures of protests staged by Bengali diaspora across 30 countries over the post-poll violence in Bengal, demanding the government to take strong action.

www.google.com

You must have heard of this event , just because the voted for a particular party ,they were massacred .

You want more ? You can't expect those people to act as cowards whose families were killed without provocation or the right to freedom should not be allowed to hindus as they are majority ?

These incidents have changed a average person .

Genocide won't happen but condition will worsen in some regions where they commit violence and they are responsible for it themselves .

 

[Jackdaws]

I ain't mixing issues , the behaviour of that particular community is in no way of a law abiding community in the south asian region and if they think that they will do all kind of shit where they are in majority and remain unscratched everywhere else in country , that's a misunderstanding , majority population is getting tired of being the good guy , and with more penetration of the holy books of islam , the hatred against idol worshipper is getting more clearer , and it would have been a much better situation if they didn't had a live demonstration of that hatred in their own country . So it's better if the community stop harrassing the majority first , it is pressing the panic button in the mind of a common Hindu person , and this change is gonna get worse from here , instead of white washing try making a radical M understand that he will not only be butchered by army but his family will face social boycott , i know condition of a average muslim in Kashmir after someone joins militancy and they see his body on road and blood and flesh spread over the area , that's the last thing a parent would like to see , so instead of that gazwa e hind bullshit that I have heard from the so called educated ones too , they should teach them some nationalism and secularism .

I've seen riots in the early 90s. And that has been my main experience of Hindu Muslim friction. Else at least in Bombay I've never seen much.

And there will always be incidents all across the country. Can't blame 200 million people for that.