India Coffee House

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
End to what? Historical injustices?
End to gaining political capital out of historical injustices. The mosque breaking in Ayodhya lead to riots in Bombay, bomb blasts in Bombay, loss of life and property across India - if I remember right in retaliation Muslims broke temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh. The Godhra train burning of kar sevaks and eventual Gujarat riots followed. Don't think it was all worth the loss of life.

Everyone and their uncle knows that Aurangzeb broke lots of temples and built mosques. As did other Muslim monarchs. You think we should go after all of them?
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
End to gaining political capital out of historical injustices. The mosque breaking in Ayodhya lead to riots in Bombay, bomb blasts in Bombay, loss of life and property across India - if I remember right in retaliation Muslims broke temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh. The Godhra train burning of kar sevaks and eventual Gujarat riots followed. Don't think it was all worth the loss of life.

Everyone and their uncle knows that Aurangzeb broke lots of temples and built mosques. As did other Muslim monarchs. You think we should go after all of them?
How it will give some political milage, the illegal structure in Banaras was constructed in one of the holiest cities for Hindus after illegally demolishing one of the holiest temples of Shiv and I think everyone has all rights under Indian constitution to claim the land and prove it in court.
Regarding the Mumbai riots, your politicians in Mumbai were sleeping with Mafia so what else you expect as an outcome, why no such riots happen in Haryana.
Don't blame an actin Ayodhya for the incapability of Mumbai police
 

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
How it will give some political milage, the illegal structure in Banaras was constructed in one of the holiest cities for Hindus after illegally demolishing one of the holiest temples of Shiv and I think everyone has all rights under Indian constitution to claim the land and prove it in court.
Regarding the Mumbai riots, your politicians in Mumbai were sleeping with Mafia so what else you expect as an outcome, why no such riots happen in Haryana.
Don't blame an actin Ayodhya for the incapability of Mumbai police
Maybe Haryana didn't have anything in the first place. Next you will ask me why were there no riots in the Andamans. What happens in such backward regions seldom makes headlines.

Let me know the relevant section of the Indian Constitution since you seem so well versed in it.
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Maybe Haryana didn't have anything in the first place. Next you will ask me why were there no riots in the Andamans. What happens in such backward regions seldom makes headlines.

Let me know the relevant section of the Indian Constitution since you seem so well versed in it.
Haryana is backward, it's the same place where we survived the people like Abdali's for millenias , and I don't think i need to remind you what they did with Marathis in 1761.
Do you want me to explain what happened in 1761 with Marathis in Haryana by the same class of people who demolished the Vishwanath temple?
same people of Haryana gave refuge to the remnants of the defeated Maratha army, you can still find Pawar surname in Haryana.
Again I am saying we can forgive but not forget.
 

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
Haryana is backward, it's the same place where we survived the people like Abdali's for millenias , and I don't think i need to remind you what they did with Marathis in 1761.
Do you want me to explain what happened in 1761 with Marathis in Haryana by the same class of people who demolished the Vishwanath temple?
same people of Haryana gave refuge to the remnants of the defeated Maratha army, you can still find Pawar surname in Haryana.
Again I am saying we can forgive but not forget.
No one is asking you to forgive or forget. As far as historical wrongs are acknowledged, recorded and taught in schools and colleges, it should be enough.

Yes, Haryana is a backward state. If it is resting on laurels from 1761, it just goes to show that.

Still waiting for the relevant section from the Constitution.
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
No one is asking you to forgive or forget. As far as historical wrongs are acknowledged, recorded and taught in schools and colleges, it should be enough.

Yes, Haryana is a backward state. If it is resting on laurels from 1761, it just goes to show that.

Still waiting for the relevant section from the Constitution.
1761 was a shame we were just the witness, how a arrogant Marathis tasted dust, with the repetition of the same mistake done by Ibrahim Lodhi in 1526, and we are OK to be backward, if backwardness helps us to avoid the riots as you see in Mumbai in 1993 then congrats on such moderenisation.

Regarding this Baba Vishwanath, let the court be the decision-makers, under the Indian constitution everyone has the right to get justice.

Thanks for teaching me that Religious riots in India started after Babri demolition, before that there were no religious riots in India
 
Last edited:

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
1761 was a shame we were just the witness, how a arrogant Marathis tasted dust, with the repetition of the same mistake done by Ibrahim Lodhi in 1526, and we are OK to be backward, if backwardness helps us to avoid the riots as you see in Mumbai in 1993 then congrats on such moderenisation.

Regarding this Baba Vishwanath, let the court be the decision-makers, under the Indian constitution everyone has the right to get justice.

Thanks for teaching me that Religious riots in India started after Babri demolition, before that there were no religious riots in India
Lol. Avoided riots? Wasn't Haryana the place where Haryanvis were throwing stones at a school bus filled with children to protest against some movie? I was merely referring to economic backwardness - but you are right in pointing out its social backwardness too.

Also, delighted to know you were around in 1761, even if merely as a witness.
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
Lol. Avoided riots? Wasn't Haryana the place where Haryanvis were throwing stones at a school bus filled with children to protest against some movie? I was merely referring to economic backwardness - but you are right in pointing out its social backwardness too.

Also, delighted to know you were around in 1761, even if merely as a witness.
Again regarding me and many people living in Haryana who have lost forefathers since the 13th century, their skulls were part of pyramids made from skulls near Delhi.
Regarding Haryana don't change the goal post we don't have any religious riots since 1947 and there is a reason behind it and the reason is we never forgot the past.
Keep your certificates regarding backwardness with your self and really wish you and your family members will remain safe in next riots in Mumbai
Let's agree to disagree, my views are not the same as yours but I have faith in courts, that justice will be served even if it's delayed by 400 years, and will see the Baba Vishwanath again
 

Zapper

Experienced member
India Correspondent
Messages
1,718
Reactions
10 942
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
India
The front

1618084156660.png


The rear

1618084176921.png


1618084250248.png


Quite evident that the mosque is built over some ancient hindu temple. Demolish the damn thing already
 

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
Again regarding me and many people living in Haryana who have lost forefathers since the 13th century, their skulls were part of pyramids made from skulls near Delhi.
Regarding Haryana don't change the goal post we don't have any religious riots since 1947 and there is a reason behind it and the reason is we never forgot the past.
Keep your certificates regarding backwardness with your self and really wish you and your family members will remain safe in next riots in Mumbai
Let's agree to disagree, my views are not the same as yours but I have faith in courts, that justice will be served even if it's delayed by 400 years, and will see the Baba Vishwanath again
I didn't bring up law and order in states. You opened that bottle and if you can't handle facts, you shouldn't have brought it up. Funnily you skipped the Gujarat riots including the burning of the train filled with Kar sevaks because it did not suit your narrative.

So if you are prepared to give out certificates on law and order, mafia and competency of the cops to justify riots and deaths, be prepared to receive them too.

By all means, let's agree to disagree.

By the way, where is the relevant section from the Constitution
 

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
sssh dont share the truth it will lead to riots in Mumbai
Awww. @Zapper can share there truth as far as it ensures that in protest some Haryanvis don't stone school buses filled with kids while the Harayana cops watch. Apparently sitting on the sidelines and watching has a long history there. Tsk Tsk.
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
I didn't bring up law and order in states. You opened that bottle and if you can't handle facts, you shouldn't have brought it up. Funnily you skipped the Gujarat riots including the burning of the train filled with Kar sevaks because it did not suit your narrative.

So if you are prepared to give out certificates on law and order, mafia and competency of the cops to justify riots and deaths, be prepared to receive them too.

By all means, let's agree to disagree.

By the way, where is the relevant section from the Constitution
Hey @Zapper don't say the truth it will lead to riots in Ahemdabad and Modi is a mass murderer ..........happy now
And evil Haryanvis stop stone pelting on school bus , it's causing burn-in Mumbai
Regarding the Constitution, let the judge who gave the decision and order to ASI to carry out the survey knows about the section
I am not giving certificates but you are scared of riots which could be easily controlled if Mumbai has some competent police appratus
 
Last edited:

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
Hey @Zapper don't say the truth it will lead to riots in Ahemdabad and Modi is a mass murderer ..........happy now
And evil Haryanvis stop stone pelting on school bus , it's causing burn-in Mumbai
Regarding the Constitution, let the judge who gave the decision and order to ASI to carry out the survey knows about the section
I am not giving certificates but you are scared of riots which could be easily controlled if Mumbai has some competent police appratus
So you don't know about the Constitution you were so confident about?

Lol, sure - riots can be controlled by a competent police force. Backward Haryana is a shining example of how a competent Police Force operates - next time when someone tries to storm the US Capitol, USA should request Haryana Police to come and control the mob and riots. Happy?
 

crixus

Contributor
Messages
1,021
Reactions
1,160
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
So you don't know about the Constitution you were so confident about?

Lol, sure - riots can be controlled by a competent police force. Backward Haryana is a shining example of how a competent Police Force operates - next time when someone tries to storm the US Capitol, USA should request Haryana Police to come and control the mob and riots. Happy?
yes I don't know the constitution but the judge who ordered the survey definitely knows the constitution regarding riots I can understand you

@Nilgiri I dont want to drag you but you are good in economic and other stats so can you spread some light how backward Haryana is ?
 

Jackdaws

Experienced member
Messages
2,759
Reactions
1 1,583
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India
yes I don't know the constitution but the judge who ordered the survey definitely knows the constitution regarding riots I can understand you

@Nilgiri I dont want to drag you but you are good in economic and other stats so can you spread some light how backward Haryana is ?
Yes, I am sure the Judge is aware of -
Places of Worship Act 1991 which explicitly prohibits any alteration to any religious structure which existed on 15th August 1947 in India. It also specifically excludes the Ram Janmabhoomi Babri Mosque land. It's always good to know the law.

And let's see @Nilgiri come up with those stats for Haryana.
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,761
Reactions
119 19,783
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
I have had my fill of both reading and participating in these kind of subjects and how they expand to other realms/matters.

It never goes to anywhere good or productive....especially when splitting hairs about who is ahead in whatever terms in a grossly underdeveloped country overall....as some attempted rejoinder to prove who is more correct on the initial matter.

A nation has existed a long time (and open to far more unbounded definition, after all it is bounded in the mind and hearts in the end)....a country (nation-state) is always far newer and far more concrete (we are after all born into it and see it in quite physical and current terms each day). It is why you can even find many nation-states (today) within a larger nation depending on your point of view.

It is imperative to understand what those differences are in definition between the two (they imo are often conflated)....otherwise over time a growing mob of aggrieved (especially by whatever unrelated reason) will inevitably call for the collective wrongs done in the larger definition to be addressed with the legal power of the nation state today (when both it and its citizens today did not exist in the perpetration/victimization of the earlier grievances and troubles of the nation).

Wielding this collectivisation (and ignoring the cause of the individual that we all exist as fundamental unit) for whatever pursuit of revenge, redemption or restoration by a raw (immoral in my opinion) majoritarian principle at least ought to first have the nation-state officially aligned with that majoritarian principle (by law and structure) so things are crystal clear about what is what....rather than dredge such "nation-memory" things up for whatever employ in whatever grey area or political arena or societal angst....... and suffer the consequences of this drastic inconsistency and far more.

But it is quite clear to me, most of my country (especially in places to action power and influence) do not know these terms, much less think about them in first place.

In fact it is increasingly clear to me this is a near indelible worldwide phenomenon than I once thought, but that is no silver lining at all but quite a darker spectre on what humankind even is. Where I have been sickened and livid before in earlier youth, I am resigned and cold to it all now as I maybe grow longer in the tooth.

We refuse (in sufficient number anyway) to observe and learn what was done wrongly in the past and leave it at that logically and some will say coldly....as we refuse to have consistent scruples.

Far easier to do the opposite when it is convenient and tribal....and primeval....and "others" and "anothers" can be made to suffer the actions of some ancestor collective. Don't strive and truly advance (the very honoured objective of a nation-state in first place so it does not sully its inheritance from the nation). Rather simply bring the other down and you have advanced another way relatively speaking....the easier way, but the easy comes with consequences.....we don't build things that last with easy materials and easy ways.

@Joe Shearer @VCheng @Saiyan0321
 

VCheng

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
488
Reactions
537
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Pakistan
I have had my fill of both reading and participating in these kind of subjects and how they expand to other realms/matters.

It never goes to anywhere good or productive....especially when splitting hairs about who is ahead in whatever terms in a grossly underdeveloped country overall....as some attempted rejoinder to prove who is more correct on the initial matter.

x10!
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom