TR Navy Conceptual & Technology-Demonstration Designs

UkroTurk · Jul 1, 2024

Anmdt said:
It is flexible among patrol level AAW-ASW-ASuW capabilities

I would say it. Decent patrol vessel.

dBSPL · Oct 17, 2024

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1846574921066905843

CGI of Damen's Multi-Purpose ship designed for the Portuguese Navy. One of the main design philosophies appears to be USV/UUV operations. NRP D. João II, also known as the Multifunctional Naval Platform, will be a multipurpose ship for the Portuguese Navy, capable of carrying out surveillance operations, oceanographic research, environmental and meteorological monitoring, as well as emergency evacuation missions. Designed to sail with 48 crew members, the ship has a displacement of 6,900 tons, a total length of 107.6 m and accommodation for a battalion of soldiers when necessary. A platform roughly the size of the Bayraktar LSTs. Multi-purpose ships with a stern dock and helicopter deck, similar to a landing platform dock ship, have become increasingly important in world navies, and this has begun to include this innovation in parallel with the development of unmanned maritime.

Although the Turkish Navy has adapted by converting the navantia Athlas platform with a displacement of 28 thousand tons and a huge hangar area, as a country that is particularly looking to play a leading role in the development of unmanned marine vehicles, can these capabilities be prioritized in the design of smaller combat support, auxilarry, logistics and amphibious element ships in future?

Sanchez · Oct 17, 2024

It could be, and by all means we should have been the country that came up with this, with tens of shipyards and design bureaus we have.

Anmdt · Oct 17, 2024

Sanchez said:
It could be, and by all means we should have been the country that came up with this, with tens of shipyards and design bureaus we have.

We have came up with the bigger ones of such a platform, and since it didn't attract many people, it didn't progress further and projected to today.

LPD-LST mix

LP-HD

We once had a design called LCT-H that could have been converted to a Multi purpose platform if needed. (found at: Here @Alterund

In my opinion it is about the marketing power and the "image" you set up by funding people to advertise your product. Damen's ship will be advertised as first of a kind but also note it is quite close to what China has built merely for test&research purposes.

dBSPL · Oct 17, 2024

Anmdt said:
(...)

LP-HD
View attachment 71237

We once had a design called LCT-H that could have been converted to a Multi purpose platform if needed. (found at: Here @Alterund

I really love this approach. If it is possible to design it with a displacement of 7-8 thousand tons, I wish that the planning for LST 3 and 4 continue on this platform.

As a dock ship, it also has the ability to beach. On the starboard side of the ship there is a crane mechanism big enough to lower the landing boat that I'm just guessing,up to LCM-8. So it has the best of both worlds in the LST class. There is enough hangar area for 2 navalized helicopters. There is a flat deck area with at least 3 helicopter spots. There's an aft pool for at least 1 LCAC. With this well deck, flight deck and cranes, hangar areas, can have any type of UUV/USV we can think of, as well as almost any rotary wing UAV and maybe even some catapult assisted propeller UAVs can be deploy and operable. It can also have a very serious firepower with its 76mm main gun and optionally 2 CIWS, 8 cell VLS. This ship can be a very strategic asset that will serve in many different configurations in a wide range of areas from carrier task groups, to amphibious operations, disaster relief to ocean going aid campaigns, from oceanography to mine sweeping.

Brave Janissary · Oct 17, 2024

dBSPL said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1846574921066905843

CGI of Damen's Multi-Purpose ship designed for the Portuguese Navy. One of the main design philosophies appears to be USV/UUV operations. NRP D. João II, also known as the Multifunctional Naval Platform, will be a multipurpose ship for the Portuguese Navy, capable of carrying out surveillance operations, oceanographic research, environmental and meteorological monitoring, as well as emergency evacuation missions. Designed to sail with 48 crew members, the ship has a displacement of 6,900 tons, a total length of 107.6 m and accommodation for a battalion of soldiers when necessary. A platform roughly the size of the Bayraktar LSTs. Multi-purpose ships with a stern dock and helicopter deck, similar to a landing platform dock ship, have become increasingly important in world navies, and this has begun to include this innovation in parallel with the development of unmanned maritime.

Although the Turkish Navy has adapted by converting the navantia Athlas platform with a displacement of 28 thousand tons and a huge hangar area, as a country that is particularly looking to play a leading role in the development of unmanned marine vehicles, can these capabilities be prioritized in the design of smaller combat support, auxilarry, logistics and amphibious element ships in future?

looks like drone mothership

UkroTurk · Oct 17, 2024

dBSPL said:
I really love this approach. If it is possible to design it with a displacement of 7-8 thousand tons, I wish that the planning for LST 3 and 4 continue on this platform.

2xA50 Sylver vertical launching system

Algerian amphibious transport dock Kalaat Béni Abbès - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

San Giorgio-class amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

dBSPL · Oct 18, 2024

UkroTurk said:
View attachment 71263
2xA50 Sylver vertical launching system

Algerian amphibious transport dock Kalaat Béni Abbès - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

San Giorgio-class amphibious transport dock - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don't think our navy will give up beaching capacity under any circumstances on ships that will also serve as additional tank landing craft. So my ideas are shaped according to this assumption.

The most important factor for me is the addition of a helicopter hangar to the heavy tank landing vessels. In other words, if these LHDish solutions are reaching unnecessarily high costs, I am in favor of completely redesigning the superstructure of the Bayraktar class, for example. Maybe if the upper deck vehicle parking area can be sacrificed and the superstructure of the ship can be shifted 20-25 meters to the bow of the ship, both the helicopter deck can be made suitable for heavier helicopters and hangar maintenance space for 2 helicopter can be gained. Landing capacity can be reduce but In this type of superstructure layout, even a fixed guided MLRS launcher can be placed on the upper deck. Of course, this is a very hypothetical idea that would require a complete change in the ship's dynamic calculations. So I am in favor of a new class for LST 3 and 4 in any case.

To imagine the total power: If add a combat support ship and some escort combatant to the filotilla of 2 Bayraktar class and two LPDish LSTs, then here is a task group that can land at any point in all near seas, carrying a mechanized/tank brigade with at least 4 attack helicopters and very powerful fire support capabilities. Of course, in addition to supporting the amphibious force, these two ships will also be able to effectively respond to different needs as we talked above, especially as platforms that are more integrated with unmanned systems. Amphibious landing ships with helicopter hangars can also become very valuable platforms in disaster relief operations due to their capacity to establish an air bridge, the field hospital they can contain, and the fact that they do not need a pier to board ashore. Not only disaster relief to friendly countries, God forbid, but when the Marmara earthquake happens, such platforms can play a very critical role.

Brave Janissary · Oct 18, 2024

As far as I can see it, if we are able to achieve to land and take off kızıl elma from Anadolu, we must then convert Anadolu lhd to a drone carrier. With the help of adding an elevator to main tank deck to locate here more UCAVs and double the ship’s capacity. And also carry marlin sida in it’s tank deck. And last one; we can add a small second runway to anadolu.

And also we can build small cheap (when compared anadolu) helicopter capable c&c lpd's or lst's like that ;

So with help of that we can gain +1 aircraft carrier(anadolu ucav carrier) and mugem .

And if we build +2 helicopeter deceked lst/lpd .

With help of that we can establish 2 carrier strike group with each one have ;

1 Aircraft carrier
1 Lpd/Lst
2 Lst (Bayraktar/Ertuğrul- Sancaktar/Osmangazi)
2 Tf-2000
2 İ Class
2 Ada Class Enhanced Asw (12x Vl Hisar + Düfas + Asroc Kind Ammo)

Ripley · Oct 19, 2024

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847333521729475003

Today I came across this.
I couldn’t verify it but from what I read, I understand that Dutch had a joint project with Germans for an AAW ship (don’t know the size) and it was cancelled and Dutch are now going by themselves.
It’s said that they’re planning to launch four hulls and Belgiums might also obtain two.

My question is though about the size. It’s a legit cruiser size ship they envision here.
Why is there this trend toward large size hulls?
Is it because modern navies feel the need install sensor suites and phased array radar systems to fully function their modern aaw and other weapon systems and such large hulls becoming more and more “optimum”?

Or is this a political decision by the Dutch to counter brand new threats rather than protect some oversea possessions as we all know very well that they neither have such territories nor inclinations to posses such territories. And if it’s so why go so large just to protect tiny Netherlands?

uçuyorum · Oct 19, 2024

Ripley said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847333521729475003

Today I came across this.
I couldn’t verify it but from what I read, I understand that Dutch had a joint project with Germans for an AAW ship (don’t know the size) and it was cancelled and Dutch are now going by themselves.
It’s said that they’re planning to launch four hulls and Belgiums might also obtain two.

My question is though about the size. It’s a legit cruiser size ship they envision here.
Why is there this trend toward large size hulls?
Is it because modern navies feel the need install sensor suites and phased array radar systems to fully function their modern aaw and other weapon systems and such large hulls becoming more and more “optimum”?

Or is this a political decision by the Dutch to counter brand new threats rather than protect some oversea possessions as we all know very well that they neither have such territories nor inclinations to posses such territories. And if it’s so why go so large just to protect tiny Netherlands?

Well the ocean navies prefer larger ships in general, that can go longer distances without support. If the attention is particularly shifting towards asia pacific area, it makes more sense that ships are getting even bigger. These ships won't directly protect Netherlands, they will escort US led carrier strike groups.

Ripley · Oct 19, 2024

uçuyorum said:
Well the ocean navies prefer larger ships in general, that can go longer distances without support. If the attention is particularly shifting towards asia pacific area, it makes more sense that ships are getting even bigger. These ships won't directly protect Netherlands, they will escort US led carrier strike groups.

Well, Dutch were always and still are an ocean going nation, that’s true, but since De Ruyter of 1935 they have been doing ok with their various frigate size ships for any missions.
Escorting, protecting largest NATO ally’s carrier groups, I am not so sure they would’ve envisioned this design comprising four behemoth hulls to fulfill just this task.

boredaf · Oct 19, 2024

uçuyorum said:
, they will escort US led carrier strike groups.

Not US, British carriers. UK doesn't have the naval capability to protect their carrier by themselves, to do that they had to put too much of their navy around it. So they made a deal with Netherlands some time ago to sail their carrier with their ships in addition to Royal Navy.

Yasar_TR · Oct 19, 2024

Ripley said:
Or is this a political decision by the Dutch to counter brand new threats rather than protect some oversea possessions as we all know very well that they neither have such territories nor inclinations to posses such territories. And if it’s so why go so large just to protect tiny Netherlands?

There are three island states that are still Dutch territories. (Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten). In addition the Dutch have large overseas trading connections and companies. Rotterdam is the busiest port in Europe. Majority of goods that western Europe use go through Dutch territory and companies.
They have a lot of naval assets and routes to protect.

Just check ASML, Prosus, NXP overseas set up.
Most of their companies are huge conglomerates with overseas connections .

Largest Dutch companies by market capitalization

List of the largest companies of the Netherlands by market capitalization, all rankings are updated daily.

companiesmarketcap.com

Anmdt · Oct 19, 2024

Ripley said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847333521729475003

Today I came across this.
I couldn’t verify it but from what I read, I understand that Dutch had a joint project with Germans for an AAW ship (don’t know the size) and it was cancelled and Dutch are now going by themselves.
It’s said that they’re planning to launch four hulls and Belgiums might also obtain two.

My question is though about the size. It’s a legit cruiser size ship they envision here.
Why is there this trend toward large size hulls?
Is it because modern navies feel the need install sensor suites and phased array radar systems to fully function their modern aaw and other weapon systems and such large hulls becoming more and more “optimum”?

Or is this a political decision by the Dutch to counter brand new threats rather than protect some oversea possessions as we all know very well that they neither have such territories nor inclinations to posses such territories. And if it’s so why go so large just to protect tiny Netherlands?

I think the displacement / tonnage is not correct but this is indeed an enormous ship.

And there are the reasons i may list;
A spacious quarters for crew, giving them the comfort for long term and long distance deployments to attract more people to enlist.

More self protection, lasers - both dazzler and high power -, pedestal mounted PDMs, machine gun stations.

Range and autonomy, the ship will be less dependent on an auxillary force, will carry more spares for machinery and munitions / missiles . (Yes some ships can maintain even the main engines out at the sea)

Seakeeping, operationability on high seas. The recent designs are barely operable beyong sea state 5 (hence tico class is still around) .

More generator power, better sensor suite, cooling capacity etc. , SIGINT / ELINT et al. C4 infastructure, theater level battle management capability as a redundant counterpart of land based facilities.

USV / UAV / UUV hangars for maintenance, replenishment, mission configurations.

Specifically the seakeeping, operationability requirement at high seas, and autonomy, and comfort of the crew. That would be cool if you have had a dolby atmos, imax capable cinema theater eh?.

As for why Dutch need this, atlantic pacific theater and being part of the allied fleet. Not merely for oversea islands of theirs but the same reason they have had AAW frigates earlier.

Ripley · Oct 19, 2024

Yasar_TR said:
There are three island states that are still Dutch territories. (Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten). In addition the Dutch have large overseas trading connections and companies. Rotterdam is the busiest port in Europe. Majority of goods that western Europe use go through Dutch territory and companies.
They have a lot of naval assets and routes to protect.

Just check ASML, Prosus, NXP overseas set up.
Most of their companies are huge conglomerates with overseas connections .

Largest Dutch companies by market capitalization

List of the largest companies of the Netherlands by market capitalization, all rankings are updated daily.

companiesmarketcap.com

Anmdt said:
I think the displacement / tonnage is not correct but this is indeed an enormous ship.

And there are the reasons i may list;
A spacious quarters for crew, giving them the comfort for long term and long distance deployments to attract more people to enlist.

More self protection, lasers - both dazzler and high power -, pedestal mounted PDMs, machine gun stations.

Range and autonomy, the ship will be less dependent on an auxillary force, will carry more spares for machinery and munitions / missiles . (Yes some ships can maintain even the main engines out at the sea)

Seakeeping, operationability on high seas. The recent designs are barely operable beyong sea state 5 (hence tico class is still around) .

More generator power, better sensor suite, cooling capacity etc. , SIGINT / ELINT et al. C4 infastructure, theater level battle management capability as a redundant counterpart of land based facilities.

USV / UAV / UUV hangars for maintenance, replenishment, mission configurations.

Specifically the seakeeping, operationability requirement at high seas, and autonomy, and comfort of the crew. That would be cool if you have had a dolby atmos, imax capable cinema theater eh?.

As for why Dutch need this, atlantic pacific theater and being part of the allied fleet. Not merely for oversea islands of theirs but the same reason they have had AAW frigates earlier.

Alright.
So, it will be fair to assume then, the ship (concept) was designed to meet not only protecting political, economical commitments abroad but also fulfill naval tasks that may lay far away oceans in as a self-sufficient fashion as it can. Therefore it may be considered “optimal”.