TR Navy Conceptual & Technology-Demonstration Designs

[Anmdt]

I've noticed that you prefer RAM rather than gun based CIWS. you must know some disadvantages of naval CIWS.

I like both, i prefer both if the platform is big enough

 

[Turko]

This new frigate will replace the Navy's Perry-class frigates and an abandoned plan to make frigates out of the Navy's littoral combat ship (LCS).

The Navy's new FFG(X) frigate warship will be right-sized and -armed for the crucial open-ocean escort role

This new frigate will replace the Navy's Perry-class frigates and an abandoned plan to make frigates out of the Navy's littoral combat ship (LCS).

www.militaryaerospace.com

Fixing first four littoral combat ships not worth it, US Navy says

Future testing and training will be conducted on newer and modernized vessels.

www.defensenews.com

Finally i've understood that the most important weapon of your navy is seekeeping capabilities of your warships.

No matter how much your frigates are loaded with missiles and they have most powerful engines, under bad weather conditions they will turn out a drunk fish.

Look here it is the sea state 8 , imagine you were in war , your frigates were attacked and they had to confront enemy frigates at 8-9 sea states.

How could you deal with this naval combat scenario? Naval battles aren't just in sunny days when sea is flat.

How would your sea skimming missiles would react when the waves are 6-8 meters and frequently. How could your radar detect approaching warships?

Another important thing must be age of your ship because old ships are beaten for ages by strong waves so they are like old boxers.

Frequently Hits of waves decrease reliability of construction of warships.

Here’s how the destroyer Zumwalt’s stealthy design handles stormy seas

After years of questions, here's what the destroyer Zumwalt's commanding officer has to say about how the ship handles heavy seas.

www.defensenews.com

Americans know their shit.

"We took advantage of a storm up near Alaska that presented us with Sea State Six conditions,” said Carlson, referring to sea’s waves between 13 and 20 feet high. “All told I’d rather be on that ship than any other ship I’ve been on.”

 

[Turko]

@Anmdt Dear again me

What is your opinion about naval guns with fire control radars.

Look Leonardo's new 76mm gun with own radar .
This design allows using wisely limited space of warships. Before fire control radars were inevitable but currently New warships use last gen missiles so they don't need fire control radar on the ship.

So i offer remove STIR from top of the ship and put on 76mm gun.

Having emptied top of the kaptanköşkü , putting there second CIWS.

I was wondering
1: Additional Gökdeniz could be put on -kaptan köşkünün üstüne - of İstif class? 10 ton Weight would be problem?

2- if Turkey created own RAM , would it be possible to put on kaptan köşkü and rear where Gökdeniz standing? there would be Fire hazard because of hot launch?

As you know i am fan of new CIWS that missiles/Gatling gun combination.
So İstif class with frontal and rear CIWS which consist of 20mm Gatling gun and RIM-116 missiles would make me jubilant.

Moreover I also would like to see on İstif class additional 8 cell VLS( Mica Naval type) with HisarA+. Because there is empty space in front of İstif.

Creating a new naval VLS wouldn't be waste of energy since we could export or apply them on our Tuzla Classes.

So İstif class will have
16 cell EDAS with G40s
8 cell VLS with Hisar A+

2 x frontal and rear CIWS with 12 RAM missiles and two 20mm Gatling guns

That's all for now

 

[Turko]

Finally I've found a cheap and reliable modular vls (which reduce fire hazardous) for HisarA+ or Bozdoğan.
Finally i understood how Umkhonto VLS works.

Concentric canister launch

• One significant design element of the CLU is a light-weight concentric canister that not only serves as the launch container for the missile but also the shipping and storage container.

Thanks to concentric canister launch we can add several HisarA+/HisarO+ / Bozdoğan IIR missiles whereever we want without fire hazard.
Old Gabyas, Barbaros, Tuzla class ship could have short range AD capability without big construction works and without big money investment.
CCL is just a cheap tube.
Disposable CCL also would be great solution.
İt could also bring export success.

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt Dear again me

What is your opinion about naval guns with fire control radars.
View attachment 25370
Look Leonardo's new 76mm gun with own radar .
This design allows using wisely limited space of warships. Before fire control radars were inevitable but currently New warships use last gen missiles so they don't need fire control radar on the ship.

So i offer remove STIR from top of the ship and put on 76mm gun.

Having emptied top of the kaptanköşkü , putting there second CIWS.
View attachment 25371

I was wondering
1: Additional Gökdeniz could be put on -kaptan köşkünün üstüne - of İstif class? 10 ton Weight would be problem?

2- if Turkey created own RAM , would it be possible to put on kaptan köşkü and rear where Gökdeniz standing? there would be Fire hazard because of hot launch?

As you know i am fan of new CIWS that missiles/Gatling gun combination.
So İstif class with frontal and rear CIWS which consist of 20mm Gatling gun and RIM-116 missiles would make me jubilant.

View attachment 25374

Moreover I also would like to see on İstif class additional 8 cell VLS( Mica Naval type) with HisarA+. Because there is empty space in front of İstif.
View attachment 25373
View attachment 25377
Creating a new naval VLS wouldn't be waste of energy since we could export or apply them on our Tuzla Classes.
View attachment 25375
So İstif class will have
16 cell EDAS with G40s
8 cell VLS with Hisar A+

2 x frontal and rear CIWS with 12 RAM missiles and two 20mm Gatling guns

That's all for now

Instead then can make a platform in front of the bridge for RAM launcher, and place Gökdeniz above the hangar.
I am sure they won't like the idea of having a CIWS on top of the bridge, especially something heavy like gökdeniz.
If they did design is like Korean frigates with a long-top area above the bridge and position the mast on nearly midst of the ship then also RAM could be placed on there.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Anmdt Dear again me

View attachment 25375
So İstif class will have
16 cell EDAS with G40s
8 cell VLS with Hisar A+

I don't think additional VLS would work... due to space constraints in the deck below.

Remember, a big reason for choosing Oto Melara 76mm gun over the 127mm was because 127mm gun takes more space in the decks below. If they designed her with 16 cells, that's probably what they had space for.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't think additional VLS would work... due to space constraints in the deck below.

Remember, a big reason for choosing Oto Melara 76mm gun over the 127mm was because 127mm gun takes more space in the decks below. If they designed her with 16 cells, that's probably what they had space for.

If funded, EDAS will be smaller and available in small cell counts, like ExLS.
With length of 4.5-5 meters and 3 cells add-on it will enable designers to think more flexible to install it on existing ships.

 

[Anmdt]

Guys, I am not saying that Gökdeniz or Phalanx are bad or Sea Zenith is better.

in the stern we had two Sea Zeniths and we're replacing them with a single Phalanx. Instead we could add a Mk 49 on top of the hangar where the phalanx is now and keep the Sea Zeniths on the sides.

I think it would be money much better spent. It would be the best protected MEKO in the world. And the best protected ship in Turkish Navy.

Ada class:
View attachment 26079

Instead imagine this:

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/KORKUTIHATR_2246.pdf

Can be upgraded with an E/O on top,
Coupled to an fixed face AESA based (MAR-D like) radar system placed in the secondary mast, providing fire-support radar information in 360 degree coverage.

 

[Turko]

Instead then can make a platform in front of the bridge for RAM launcher, and place Gökdeniz above the hangar.
I am sure they won't like the idea of having a CIWS on top of the bridge, especially something heavy like gökdeniz.
If they did design is like Korean frigates with a long-top area above the bridge and position the mast on nearly midst of the ship then also RAM could be placed on there.

Umkhonto's concenteric launch tube length is just 380cm and diameter 65cm.

Umkhonto's concenteric launch tube also serves as transfer canister. It could be also applied by a single cell. Very compact, Smart and cheap solution.

 

[LegionnairE]

If funded, EDAS will be smaller and available in small cell counts, like ExLS.
With length of 4.5-5 meters and 3 cells add-on it will enable designers to think more flexible to install it on existing ships.

Then we could put it on smaller ships, like fast attack crafts, patrol boats etc. Which would be awesome

If they designed the İ Class with 16 Cells, then they probably have enough space for 16 Cells.

That being said, I would love to see a 3-cell VLS on Barbaros class. or Ada class

Instead imagine this:
View attachment 26093

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/KORKUTIHATR_2246.pdf

Can be upgraded with an E/O on top,
Coupled to an fixed face AESA based (MAR-D like) radar system placed in the secondary mast, providing fire-support radar information in 360 degree coverage.

This would be alright, we could replace the Sea Zeniths in the stern with these... but I would still want a Mk49 on top of that hangar instead of Phalanx.

 

[Turko]

TN should care about new UAV doctrine.
Greece also develops UAVs

Greek tactical UAV RX-3plus is ready

One of the most interesting Greek appearances at the DEFEA exhibition , which opens its gates on Tuesday 13 July and will last until Thursday 15 July, is the Tactical Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (TRPAS) RX-3plus , of INTRACOM DEFENSE (IDE). It is a direct evolution of the corresponding...

defencehub.live

Greece • EFAD

www.efadrones.org

The Base For Greek Drones In Skyros Is Ready

Time is counting down for the Greek Armed Forces to enter the era of acquiring and using state-of-the-art UAV "flying spies", Ta Nea reported.

greekcitytimes.com

Imagine the scenario: if Bayraktar type UAV sent MAM-L from 7000meter altitude on ADA-CLASS, how could ADA-CLASS defence itself? RAM wouldn't work against MAM-L! Also RAM couldnt engage on Bayraktar at 7000m.

Another scenario Greek helicopters with Hellfires. Greeks have purchased a load of Kiowas. How could you defence yourself from Kiowas?

Just HisarA+ can reach 8000m altitude and 20 km range.


Ada Classes and Tuzla Classes need SHORAD capabilities.
Old frigates also need new gen SAMs since they have vulnerable old gen semi-active guided ESSMs.

So IIR HisarA+ could be great solution unless Tübitak SAGE creates CAMM which is more compact than HISAR A+. Quad packed 3 cell VLS with 12 CAMMs would be ultimate but expensive for patrol boats and other little ships.

4 HISAR+ would be enough for every patrol boat.

 

[Kartal1]

TN should care about new UAV doctrine.
Greece also develops UAVs

Greek tactical UAV RX-3plus is ready

One of the most interesting Greek appearances at the DEFEA exhibition , which opens its gates on Tuesday 13 July and will last until Thursday 15 July, is the Tactical Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (TRPAS) RX-3plus , of INTRACOM DEFENSE (IDE). It is a direct evolution of the corresponding...

defencehub.live

Greece • EFAD

www.efadrones.org

View attachment 26101

The Base For Greek Drones In Skyros Is Ready

Time is counting down for the Greek Armed Forces to enter the era of acquiring and using state-of-the-art UAV "flying spies", Ta Nea reported.

greekcitytimes.com

View attachment 26100
Imagine the scenario: if Bayraktar type UAV sent MAM-L from 7000meter altitude on ADA-CLASS, how could ADA-CLASS defence itself? RAM wouldn't work against MAM-L! Also RAM couldnt engage on Bayraktar at 7000m.

Another scenario Greek helicopters with Hellfires. Greeks have purchased a load of Kiowas. How could you defence yourself from Kiowas?

View attachment 26096
View attachment 26102
Just HisarA+ can reach 8000m altitude and 20 km range.


Ada Classes and Tuzla Classes need SHORAD capabilities.
Old frigates also need new gen SAMs since they have vulnerable old gen semi-active guided ESSMs.

So IIR HisarA+ could be great solution unless Tübitak SAGE creates CAMM which is more compact than HISAR A+. Quad packed 3 cell VLS with 12 CAMMs would be ultimate but expensive for patrol boats and other little ships.

4 HISAR+ would be enough for every patrol boat.

While Turkey showed success with its offensive drone capabilities I am very curious how the Turkish drone doctrine specialists planned to counter a similar threat and how the created countermeasures would be implemented on naval platforms within the specifics of naval warfare and unmanned small size air/sea threat.

 

[Anastasius]

While Turkey showed success with its offensive drone capabilities I am very curious how the Turkish drone doctrine specialists planned to counter a similar threat and how the created countermeasures would be implemented on naval platforms within the specifics of naval warfare and unmanned small size air/sea threat.

Lasers.

 

[Steel]

While Turkey showed success with its offensive drone capabilities I am very curious how the Turkish drone doctrine specialists planned to counter a similar threat and how the created countermeasures would be implemented on naval platforms within the specifics of naval warfare and unmanned small size air/sea threat.

I wonder can chaffs protect the ship from laser guided weapons when used right time? Because they can reflect and scatter the designated laser waves and broke the vortex of laser waves? Of course it may be effective when the approaching missile is detected and at the right distance the chaffs are dispensed.

 

[Anmdt]

 

[Anmdt]

STM has shown a submarine (more looking like an LUUV-XLUUV) design in somewhere, yet nothing has been told about it.
Looking at the second sketch, it could be an unmanned semi-submersible or convertible design with combined Vertical-X rudder configuration.

 

[Anmdt]

Multi purpose rescue vessel design by TAIS, 95 meters 4400 tons.
360 degrees bridge
SAR operations up to the sea state 6
1x 30 mm + 2 x 12.7, mm RCWS weapon layout
400 m2 deck area for multi purpose, ER Disaster relief or scientific operations
35 tons capable A frame compatible to DSRV
35 tons telescopic boom crane
2 RHIBS
Hangar for multiple UAVs with maintenance facility
Helopad up to 10 tons+
18 knots max speed
Dynamic positioning + Semi autonomous piloting
Azimuth propeller + 2 x bow thruster.

 

[Anmdt]

just 2 RHIBs looks insufficient for a SAR ship of this tonnage.

Also it would be better if this thing could support a chinook.

Even a relatively small ship like Tuzla class has a compliment of 35 sailors. How do you expect to save that many people with just two RHIBs?

RHIBs are not to save people from the mothership but to conduct operations.
Those white cylinder stuff on the sides of the RHIBS, called life rafts are to save people from mothership in terms of emergencies. Also multi purpose containers can be replaced with more RHIBs or larger boats (up to 35 tons as being capacity of the crane)
The helodeck is clearance may allow up to 14 tonnes, but i doubt a Chinhook capability for a 95 meters ship. Chinhook itself is about 30 meters.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't know, you could move the radars, sensors aft on top of that yellow crane. And if the superstructure is strong enough you could build a helodeck on top of the bridge. You obviously can't have a hangar to store a chinook like this but at least you would have the option to land one.

But nevermind, if there are enough number of liferafts for rescue it's fine. It's a fine ship.

Fyi, the yellow one is an A- frame, it tilts back and forth thus. Plus you will need to pass all those cables for satcom and radar through the operation deck.

The top of bridge in fact has less effective area for landing (where the landing gears may touch). Plus it is harder to land at higher position due to the wind and ship motions.

And what would a chinhook do here? A 10-14 tons helicopter would be sufficient for SAR missions, in case of heavy lift operations the ship's crane will handle it.

The idea is good but for operations that require a chinhook, the ship itself would naturally be 130+ meters to have more capabilities as well (multiple heavy lift cranes, moonpool etc)

 

[Anmdt]

Dearsan's mini submarine's details are revealed;

Notice the auxiliary engine;