TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Nilgiri]

I wonder what happened with the fleet supply vessel deal. It had a multi-billion dollars figure.

IN Navy chief said few days ago it will be finalized and concluded soon:

Will soon conclude the contract for Turkey-designed auxiliary ship project: Navy Chief – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Let us see, I think 2023 will have more details. HSL capacity is all there, they just need the requisite tech transfer + engg support from Anadolu shipyard.

 

[bisbis]

TURKISH ETHIC,
as Haluk bayraktar famously said, 'we don't sell arms to both sides.'

Hopefully, you guys stick to this,
Otherwise, Selling weapons in one hand to PAK, BD, and on the other hand to India doesn't sound like a very good deal!
( from our perspective )

And Hopefully, this never happens and Turkiye continue its role to become strategic partner with BD. Otherwise, we have to review and rethink every present and future security cooperation between US and Turkiye.

And also, in my opinion, even though from a 'pure profit' perspective India seems to be the bigger market in the first glance, but there is nothing strategic to sell to india!
For example they have their own 4th and 5th gen fighter program, their own air to air, air to ground missile programs.
They already have their own medium and long air defence systems. Tanks, APCs.
They are building their own destroyer, carrier and nuclear submarines.
And more and more days goes by, they will become more and more domestic in these strategic for obvious reasons.

In my opninion, Only things that Turkey can effectively sell to india is drones of all class ( but it seems that, they are opting for 30 MQ9b with a 3 billion dollars package deal ) and maybe ATAK ii ( when it is ready however, they seems to choose apache ) and some smart guided ammunition for both drones and fighters as they have some gap in this particular domain ( things like HGK, KGK, Teber, miniature bomb, MAM series )

On the other hand, with PAK and specially with BD, there are range strategic possibilities in the future.
Like TFX obviously, but also, long range high altitude air defence system like SIPER should be on the agenda in the near future as we are already bringing hisar o.
There is also our navy's multi-billion dollars frigate program which is a good bid for Turkish companies.
And also, army is interested in basically everything, like ATGM, MANPAD, APCs, MARPS, ( as we already brought hundred of cobra from otokar )
In a nutshell, there is more opportunity with BD ( also and pak ) given the lack of our own defence industries.

@Yasar @dBSPL and others!
what do you guys think ?

Yes, ethics is good. But as long as it coincides with the realities.

Remember that every customer we do not sell guns to buys these guns from another manufacturer.

So, are the policies of these other producing countries well-intentioned? Is it peaceful? or is it manipulative? Colonial? Is he a capitalist? Will he do all kinds of evil to sell more guns? It is necessary to make a decision considering all these.

We did not sell drones to Russia. Did they get it from Iran too? They shot everywhere in Ukraine without military or civilian targets.

Well, if we had sold drons to Russia and there was a clause in the agreement that it would not be used for civilian targets, if it was used, the flights of drones would be prevented, the flow of spare parts would be stopped, would this sale be good or bad?

This is a just simple example. please focus on the main idea.

 

[Kedikesenfare]

Pakistan + Bangladesh is a bigger market than India on its own.

I'm not going to indulge in another topic about Kashmir but once again, this issue is holding back India more than its problem with corruption and mismanagement. Bharat, unfortunately, can't utilize all its identities and different cultures like the US which is very sad...

 

[Nilgiri]

Before we go well off topic due to people that understand next to zero about matters like Kashmir and Indian muslims and whatever other issues far away from Turkish sphere..... shoe on the other foot ought to be applied surely on whats floating out there in world regarding Turkiye and its neigbhourhood and historical context first.... that Turks would like to gain better footing by using consistency there first?

Should I use any selective manner of western media sources, twitter feeds and so on that put Kurds, Armenians and what have you in same or even far worse terms?....and how large enough portion of TR establishment and Turks look past all of that to conduct deep, even strategic relations with such countries of the West?...at proven scales and depth far beyond what they will be with India for many decades to come?

How should I look at Turkey hosting US nuclear weapons at incirlik, while there are multiple detailed posts on this very forum asserting and conveying Turkish impression regarding connections US has with PKK/YPG (mere stones throw away from incirlik)?

Where does India rank here among countries supporting this stuff according to Turk consensus?

What are the relations Turkiye continues to maintain and even grow in deep ways with countries that recognise certain ww1 events w.r.t Armenians as a genocide? (India certainly is not among them)

Definitely that consistency should be applied well before using reference point of USA as some gilded edifice on this matter surely?

The US which has far more uncomfortable history of what happened to its original inhabitants (before we go into subsequent stories of its migrant ones later) to make way for manifest destiny. Things to look into before you go into some neo-liberal kumbaya "our diversity speaks" hot take plastering over all of that.

Then some of you put Pakistan and Bangladesh in some equivalent reductive sense too. OK have you visited Bangladesh liberation war museum first of all? Will Turkiye put that issue (regarding Pakistan's human rights in modern era) on same pedestal as Kashmir for consistency? Or is some prudence used in realm of own interests?

You best actually read and know all sides of something if its far enough from your own realm and expertise to then apply consistent basis on an argument.

Or you understand what national interests are superseding that.

What you don't do is reductively patchwork things selectively in ad hoc way.

That doesnt work in basic mirror test, so why expect it to work elsewhere?

 

[Kedikesenfare]

Before we go well off topic due to people that understand next to zero about matters like Kashmir and Indian muslims and whatever other issues far away from Turkish sphere..... shoe on the other foot ought to be applied surely on whats floating out there in world regarding Turkiye and its neigbhourhood and historical context first.... that Turks would like to gain better footing by using consistency there first?

Should I use any selective manner of western media sources, twitter feeds and so on that put Kurds, Armenians and what have you in same or even far worse terms?....and how large enough portion of TR establishment and Turks look past all of that to conduct deep, even strategic relations with such countries of the West?...at proven scales and depth far beyond what they will be with India for many decades to come?

How should I look at Turkey hosting US nuclear weapons at incirlik, while there are multiple detailed posts on this very forum asserting and conveying Turkish impression regarding connections US has with PKK/YPG (mere stones throw away from incirlik)?

Where does India rank here among countries supporting this stuff according to Turk consensus?

What are the relations Turkiye continues to maintain and even grow in deep ways with countries that recognise certain ww1 events w.r.t Armenians as a genocide? (India certainly is not among them)

Definitely that consistency should be applied well before using reference point of USA as some gilded edifice on this matter surely?

The US which has far more uncomfortable history of what happened to its original inhabitants (before we go into subsequent stories of its migrant ones later) to make way for manifest destiny. Things to look into before you go into some neo-liberal kumbaya "our diversity speaks" hot take plastering over all of that.

Then some of you put Pakistan and Bangladesh in some equivalent reductive sense too. OK have you visited Bangladesh liberation war museum first of all? Will Turkiye put that issue (regarding Pakistan's human rights in modern era) on same pedestal as Kashmir for consistency? Or is some prudence used in realm of own interests?

You best actually read and know all sides of something if its far enough from your own realm and expertise to then apply consistent basis on an argument.

Or you understand what national interests are superseding that.

What you don't do is reductively patchwork things selectively in ad hoc way.

That doesnt work in basic mirror test, so why expect it to work elsewhere?

Forget the trolls for one minute; most Turks are sad that India isn't capable of becoming a major ally of Turkey and in general the whole Muslim world.

 

[Fx-gun]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600732080752668672

Our friendship with Pakistan is much bigger than our market share.

 

[Nilgiri]

Forget the trolls for one minute; most Turks are sad that India isn't capable of becoming a major ally of Turkey and in general the whole Muslim world.

We have good enough relations with majority of Muslim world. Its a work in progress like with any large populations and large histories involved.

Arab countries, Iran, central asia (fellow Turkics to you) past Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia (to our east)....we can talk about all the larger numbers governing them be it trade, commerce, tourism and so on that form the bedrock of relationship to develop with time as India grows and they grow.

The less you see relations with India through prism of Pakistan (or any individual country), the better relations you get with India. Its that simple in the end.

If you want to get hung up on some asserted overarching issue selectively because of that claimed prism (but then contend it should never happen in reverse) and stymie whatever else based on that, thats your argument to make and try assert.

But it wont be accepted, it never has (push come to shove anywhere in world and human psyche)....and certainly hasn't been accepted by you to begin with with regards to your issues.

The simple geopolitical benefaction argument (the interests in cultivating relationship with Pakistan over India) is far more consistent, sound and precise one.

 

[Crush716]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600732080752668672

Our friendship with Pakistan is much bigger than our market share.

According to whom? Just because of one person made a statement and got you emotional ? When it comes to geopolitics unfortunately friendships don’t pay the bills but national and geopolitical interests does.

 

[Anastasius]

TURKISH ETHIC,
as Haluk bayraktar famously said, 'we don't sell arms to both sides.'

Hopefully, you guys stick to this,
Otherwise, Selling weapons in one hand to PAK, BD, and on the other hand to India doesn't sound like a very good deal!
( from our perspective )

I thought you guys had decent relations with India unlike Pakistan...

 

[Agha Sher]

Let’s get back on topic

 

[what]

Foreign ambassador says something that the country he's working in will appreciate. Hold the presses /s

In other words he did his job, were you expecting him to say no we will never buy anything or be a diplomat and be diplomatic about the answer? Hardly even news.


Anyway, topic is about exports and possible exports, let's not get too distracted.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

STM General Manager
@Guleryuz__Ozgur
: "(KARGU Kamikaze UAV) We receive serious demand from Europe. Some keep the numbers low, maybe they are trying to learn what we have done with reverse engineering."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601281012708917248

 

[Zafer]

STM General Manager
@Guleryuz__Ozgur
: "(KARGU Kamikaze UAV) We receive serious demand from Europe. Some keep the numbers low, maybe they are trying to learn what we have done with reverse engineering."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601281012708917248

They should only sell Kargu in large batches.

 

[Hexciter]

Turkey even sold armored vehicles to El Salvador

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601255629292769280

 

[Lool]

STM General Manager
@Guleryuz__Ozgur
: "(KARGU Kamikaze UAV) We receive serious demand from Europe. Some keep the numbers low, maybe they are trying to learn what we have done with reverse engineering."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601281012708917248

They should only sell Kargu in large batches.

Turkey should have never sold Kargu drones in the first place
Such strategic highly classified products can be reverse engineered by competitors

Now the West is trying to reverse engineer the Kargu drone FFS! There is a reason why the US isnt selling some particular hardware like the F22 etc.... it is because the sole possibility of it being reverse engineered, no matter how slim it is, has greater repercussions than a few billion bucks

 

[Zafer]

Turkey should have never sold Kargu drones in the first place
Such strategic highly classified products can be reverse engineered by competitors

Now the West is trying to reverse engineer the Kargu drone FFS! There is a reason why the US isnt selling some particular hardware like the F22 etc.... it is because the sole possibility of it being reverse engineered, no matter how slim it is, has greater repercussions than a few billion bucks

We did not invent such drones we are followers and not leaders of those multicopter drones. We only weaponized them. There is not all that much to keep a secret. The benefits of selling them in good numbers outweighs the risk of being copied. There must still be room for improvement which is why we will keep trying to hold the cutting edge of this tech.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Turkey should have never sold Kargu drones in the first place
Such strategic highly classified products can be reverse engineered by competitors

Now the West is trying to reverse engineer the Kargu drone FFS! There is a reason why the US isnt selling some particular hardware like the F22 etc.... it is because the sole possibility of it being reverse engineered, no matter how slim it is, has greater repercussions than a few billion bucks

These class of stand alone drones can be available to any one. Even civilians. What makes ours so deadly is it’s software that has stuff like face recognition, target acquisition, flight and fire control algorithms, etc.

 

[Fachfouch]

I think Tunisia is getting Nurol Ejder 6X6

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602781304319262720

 

[Tornadoss]

I think Tunisia is getting Nurol Ejder 6X6

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602781304319262720

View attachment 51371 View attachment 51372

Strange didn't see Ejder 6x6 for a while and it's not on product list at the Nurol website.

Nurol Makina - EJDER YALÇIN 4x4

www.nurolmakina.com.tr

 

[Fachfouch]

Strange didn't see Ejder 6x6 for a while and it's not on product list at the Nurol website.

Nurol Makina - EJDER YALÇIN 4x4

www.nurolmakina.com.tr

yeah it is weird and it could be for another country not Tunisia it is just stopping there for refuel