TR Defence Exports & Updates

Saithan

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Do you think it is that difficult to produce a militarised TS1400?
Prof Aksit has said it many times that if they are asked to do it, they could easily redesign the engine so that it becomes militarised.
So why are they not doing it?
Can it be something to do with the Italian license partnership in Atak T-129, whereby it is capitulated that the engine powering it, has to be LHTECH T800?
I think we should have done it anyway and call it a testbed. We haven’t heard anything about italians not giving permission to test ts1400 on Atak platform.

it’s more important to do it and prove it works and performs up to expectations (if it does). Seeing is believing.
 

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Do you think it is that difficult to produce a militarised TS1400?
Prof Aksit has said it many times that if they are asked to do it, they could easily redesign the engine so that it becomes militarised.
So why are they not doing it?
Can it be something to do with the Italian license partnership in Atak T-129, whereby it is capitulated that the engine powering it, has to be LHTECH T800?
Mr. Aksit also has given a time that it will take up to 2024/2025 if i recall correctly. Which means it is hard to take 3-4 years including certification.
 

Yasar_TR

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Mr. Aksit also has given a time that it will take up to 2024/2025 if i recall correctly. Which means it is hard to take 3-4 years including certification.
But please remember that the time given was for Gokbey certification , which is a semi civilian craft and needs many more tests for certification. A TS1400 for military use would not need the same certification tests. Hence the timescale would be shorter.
 

Yasar_TR

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I think we should have done it anyway and call it a testbed. We haven’t heard anything about italians not giving permission to test ts1400 on Atak platform.

it’s more important to do it and prove it works and performs up to expectations (if it does). Seeing is believing.
Although I agree with you from the point of proving to ourselves that we can do it. However, I would be hesitant to try it on a platform like T-129 if there were a condition like specific engine usage. As it would have been a bit of a wasted effort. But trying it on a platform like T-629 could be fruitful.
Nevertheless, I agree that a militarised version of TS1400 should have been produced for one or another platform.
 

Saithan

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Although I agree with you from the point of proving to ourselves that we can do it. However, I would be hesitant to try it on a platform like T-129 if there were a condition like specific engine usage. As it would have been a bit of a wasted effort. But trying it on a platform like T-629 could be fruitful.
Nevertheless, I agree that a militarised version of TS1400 should have been produced for one or another platform.
Not only that I think we all know that the moment we prove we can do it. The restrictions they put on us becomes obsolete. Which leaves only one question, do they want to make money or lose out.

Proving that TS1400 works on T129 platform would make US restriction obsolete, and all pressure be on Italy.

But I'm not hearing anyone saying Italians won't permit it. All I hear and read is US won't allow export of engine.
 

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But please remember that the time given was for Gokbey certification , which is a semi civilian craft and needs many more tests for certification. A TS1400 for military use would not need the same certification tests. Hence the timescale would be shorter.
Certification for military use is not about issuing an official certificate but proving that the engine is suitable for military use in dedicated applications. Sometimes these tests and verifications lasts longer than a civilian certification.
 

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Not only that I think we all know that the moment we prove we can do it. The restrictions they put on us becomes obsolete. Which leaves only one question, do they want to make money or lose out.

Proving that TS1400 works on T129 platform would make US restriction obsolete, and all pressure be on Italy.

But I'm not hearing anyone saying Italians won't permit it. All I hear and read is US won't allow export of engine.
Engine in T129 can be changed there is no problem about it, that is not hard and Leonardo is still partner of the project, they gladly accept it but Turkey's sole producer license ends in 2028. Turkey already secured / tested and stockpiled reliable and proven engine CTS800, certifying another engine for Turkish Helo's is not feasible atm. Also not feasible for future sales! Turkey will rather focus on its T129 rival (T629).

On the other hand TS1400 just rolled out its first civilian versions, it has to be tested on helicopters, complete all process before militarizing it. Even after militarization, you would need to reconfigure / retrofit T129 for this new engine than make tests on the helicopter. It takes years and not feasible for Turkish Ataks which will cease production on 2028. Why not build a new helicopter for the engine from scratch ? T129s already got their engines after years of testing.

And regarding Pakistan, they ordered T129 with current engines, they tested that version. If you change engine,whole performance changes and tests have to be done again which will again take years.. (It is already delayed..) But of course if they accept engine replacement, that project could be initiated, which should have done in the beginning.

As far as we know, sadly none of these tests have been done or started. What about if it takes 5 more years.. will Pakistan wait?
 

Yasar_TR

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Certification for military use is not about issuing an official certificate but proving that the engine is suitable for military use in dedicated applications. Sometimes these tests and verifications lasts longer than a civilian certification.
You are probably right. But I was going by what Prof Aksit was saying about the certification of military engines. He was insisting on the civilian test procedures being longer and more arduous as the helicopters would be carrying passengers, they would have to go through tests set up by many civilian aviation safety bodies like EASA.
 

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TheInsider

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You are probably right. But I was going by what Prof Aksit was saying about the certification of military engines. He was insisting on the civilian test procedures being longer and more arduous as the helicopters would be carrying passengers, they would have to go through tests set up by many civilian aviation safety bodies like EASA.
EASA tests are lengthy and very difficult tests. There is no military certification, there is military qualification, and qualification tests are done inside TR with the Turkish authorities rather than foreign bodies like EASA.
 

Anmdt

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4 Stamp or Stop*
1 Stop or Smash (Looks like Smash)
1 Leonardo 40mm light cannon

+ 2 RHIBs (or USV), Helo deck for light helicopters for VERTEG and rescue operations + recon UAVs + likely a stern ramp, all in a 76 meter platform. Sacrificing the gun in B position it can also be equipped with 2 + 2 MRAShM. Optionally comes with 2 spots (rear Stamps) for switching to Sungur-N twin launcher.

Dearsan has secured a good deal with Turkish systems on board. Should remind this, Nigeria has got 2 OPVs from China earlier and it was almost for sure for them to get additional Chinese OPVs.

More to come by Dearsan.

*It is 2 Stamp + 2 Simbad RC, would have been better it was Sungur N.
 
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Kartal1

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Do you think it is that difficult to produce a militarised TS1400?
Prof Aksit has said it many times that if they are asked to do it, they could easily redesign the engine so that it becomes militarised.
So why are they not doing it?
Can it be something to do with the Italian license partnership in Atak T-129, whereby it is capitulated that the engine powering it, has to be LHTECH T800?
They probably don't think it's worth it to invest in the T-129 Atak integration because of the long duration of integration and tests, Italian license expiring and want to push for integration into the national T-629. That way they will both introduce a platform with more national input and also more modern, with more capabilities.
 

Anmdt

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Nigerian Navy will be the first operational user of the MAR-D?
B Class (main radar), Turkish LST(main radar), Turkmenistan C92 (on gokdeniz), PN Milgem (on Gokdeniz by 2023), Ukranian Milgem (on Gokdeniz by 2024), I- Class (on Gokdeniz by 2023), Barbaroz YOM (secondary radar by 2022/2023), Turkish OPV (main radar by 2023), maybe in one of the other navy as secondary or main radar (already).
 

Anmdt

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Why do they need three types of OPV from three different countries?
Likely not satisfied by the Chinese one, i am not quite familiar with the African market with a simple search i could find that Nigeria was expecting second hull of P18N to be constructed in Nigeria by local contribution but reports are telling it is completed in China.

My guesses:

Might be not satisfied with P18N (hard to say this, P18N is a solid design)

Dearsan has made a good offer for the product and partnership and they will acquire more from them in future with local construction.
 

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