TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Afif]

I wonder what did they actually buy... Our ballistic missile defence is still in development AFAIK. They must have bought a whole load of SRBMs or air defence missiles. Maybe TRGs? I definitely think they bought Kara ATMACAs because of Iran. Radar and early warning systems for all of these are included of course.

My biggest hope is we didn't sell them anything strategic that is permanent like tech transfer of critical stuff. We got those by suffering through great sacrifice.

How much the deal worth?

 

[Bogeyman]

How much the deal worth?

It's not certain.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Trisula SAM system developed for Indonesian layered air defence

 

[Afif]

It is very interesting that, Trisula is using Israeli origin radars.

 

[Radonsider]

It is very interesting that, Trisula is using Israeli origin radars.

Afaik Indonesia already uses Israeli radars for surveillance

 

[Afif]

Afaik Indonesia already uses Israeli radars for surveillance

Really? They don’t even recognise Israel.

 

[Sanchez]

Really? They don’t even recognise Israel.

Over the decades, they bought many Israeli tech, even trained with Israeli special forces on multiple occasions. Not sure about radars though.

 

[Oublious]

KSA Baykar deal is above 5b$

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681662530186358784

This is not only products from Baykar, a lot of MAM and with Turkish Smart bombs with it.

 

[Nilgiri]

Which kind of ship was this?

A fleet tanker/replenishment ship. Supply resources (fuel, food, ammo etc) to your warships when they are out in the high seas to extend the time they can be out there without needing to return to base etc. There is a picture of existing one in the link.

The WW2 Pacific war has the most details concerning them w.r.t stories you can look up regarding their importance and following their respective warship flotillas etc.

The proposed FSS class (built at HSL from TAIS tech transfer) would have been bigger and something along lines found in pic here:

Indian MoD signed a contract with Turkey's TAIS shipyards for 5 Fleet Support Vessels - Naval News

A spokesman of the Indian Ministry of Defence announced back in March that Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL, Visakhapatnam), India's state-owned shipyard, had signed a contract with TAIS, a consortium of five Turkish shipyards, to design and build five large Fleet Support Vessel (FSV) with a...

www.navalnews.com

Covid put a real spanner in the works on top of already not great situation to move this project forward.

But I wanna be friends with India

Joking aside, we need to improve our relations with India on every level.
How we even dare to stay aloof with them while EU, France in particular, the pretentious bully of the hood with colonial ambition intact and undeclared enemy of Turkish interests and security, creating strategic partnership and dual alliance with India.
We really can’t afford keeping our distance with India.

It is imperative that Turkiye stabilises and improves its economy and not substitute talk + shortcuts to make up for it (while doing destructive economy policy to itself).

With the relations as bad state as they are in with PRC for example, India still works to improve what is needed when the larger economic basis is concerned: https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...sector-on-the-cards/articleshow/101882976.cms

So Turkiye ought to form this basis now as priority and relations then will achieve size to improve organically when political windows and such arrive later as they do (by extension of this or new opportunities).

Turkiye is in great position w.r.t its location with EU (and customs union it enjoys with it) and this will form a huge basis for steady relations with India to provide a lot of components on pricepoint it can in supply chains Turkiye hosts and is attractive for EU market....benefitting all parties economies especially as more countries want to reduce dependence on PRC.

It increases opportunities for people people interaction and exchanges like say Yirtik Pantolon vlogging of his India visit (and he showed good and bad sides of India, and it spurred lot of interest.....he even hitchhiked in Kashmir of all places). That is most important thing, regular joe stuff expanding and then it molds environment for what political executives can and cant do longer term in better way for both sides.

Even on political exec side, Erdogan admin has made solid overtures in quieter meaningful way (past what gains most attention)...he sent first rate ambassador (Firat Sunel), lot of good things happened relationship wise after the earthquake tragedy, trade delegation meetings etc have been quite positive....so the trajectory can keep improving let us see.

Defence exports, cooperation etc is just a final apex tier thing that needs the bedrock and middle layers to be sound and robust and that should be prioritized for now to grow trust over time.

 

[Ripley]

A fleet tanker/replenishment ship. Supply resources (fuel, food, ammo etc) to your warships when they are out in the high seas to extend the time they can be out there without needing to return to base etc. There is a picture of existing one in the link.

The WW2 Pacific war has the most details concerning them w.r.t stories you can look up regarding their importance and following their respective warship flotillas etc.

The proposed FSS class (built at HSL from TAIS tech transfer) would have been bigger and something along lines found in pic here:

Indian MoD signed a contract with Turkey's TAIS shipyards for 5 Fleet Support Vessels - Naval News

A spokesman of the Indian Ministry of Defence announced back in March that Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL, Visakhapatnam), India's state-owned shipyard, had signed a contract with TAIS, a consortium of five Turkish shipyards, to design and build five large Fleet Support Vessel (FSV) with a...

www.navalnews.com

Covid put a real spanner in the works on top of already not great situation to move this project forward.



It is imperative that Turkiye stabilises and improves its economy and not substitute talk + shortcuts to make up for it (while doing destructive economy policy to itself).

With the relations as bad state as they are in with PRC for example, India still works to improve what is needed when the larger economic basis is concerned: https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...sector-on-the-cards/articleshow/101882976.cms

So Turkiye ought to form this basis now as priority and relations then will achieve size to improve organically when political windows and such arrive later as they do (by extension of this or new opportunities).

Turkiye is in great position w.r.t its location with EU (and customs union it enjoys with it) and this will form a huge basis for steady relations with India to provide a lot of components on pricepoint it can in supply chains Turkiye hosts and is attractive for EU market....benefitting all parties economies especially as more countries want to reduce dependence on PRC.

It increases opportunities for people people interaction and exchanges like say Yirtik Pantolon vlogging of his India visit (and he showed good and bad sides of India, and it spurred lot of interest.....he even hitchhiked in Kashmir of all places). That is most important thing, regular joe stuff expanding and then it molds environment for what political executives can and cant do longer term in better way for both sides.

Even on political exec side, Erdogan admin has made solid overtures in quieter meaningful way (past what gains most attention)...he sent first rate ambassador (Firat Sunel), lot of good things happened relationship wise after the earthquake tragedy, trade delegation meetings etc have been quite positive....so the trajectory can keep improving let us see.

Defence exports, cooperation etc is just a final apex tier thing that needs the bedrock and middle layers to be sound and robust and that should be prioritized for now to grow trust over time.

I agree.
But I hope you don’t misunderstand what I said.
I never thought a relation simplified to a basic military hardware supplier to India because India is famous for obtaining arms from diverse suppliers anyways. Turkey presents a gateway for opportunities for India as well, like you pointed.
Such sound relations take time. Small steps from both directions builds confidence and trust on both sides and next thing you know, they both begin to run toward each other. However, I must also - as painful as it is - agree that Turkey must put its economy in an order. It has been our Achilles heel for decades. A strong, sound economy is the groundwork that you wanna built your society.

I meant what I said. Hope Turkey and India get closer and God willing even friends someday.

 

[Afif]

It is evident that Turkish-Indian trade volume will grow exponentially in coming decade. (Which is a good thing)

However, by the time any political window for defence cooperation with India arrives, (if it ever arrives) I suspect defence cooperation with Pak and BD would be in its mature stage by then. (With BD it is now in its pre-teen and with Pakistan it is somewhat higher)

Thus, trying to have a late start with India would create a connnandrum for Türkiye. Because, there is no doubt that defence cooperation with India and defence cooperation with BD and Pak is mutually exclusive.

Of course, these are all Nation States and Türkyie can choose whomever it want to cooperate with, (and I am definitely not trying to appeal here to any absurd 'Ummah privilege') however, to me it seems the cost benefit calculation is very simple here.

The fact that India already has a stablished defence industry and it is growing exponentially, thus even if any defence cooperation were to happen it is very unlikely India buying Turkish Strategic products like KAAN, SIPER, MILDEN, I class frigate, Altay tank or T129.

Because, just like Türkiye they already have more or less similar domestic programs in motion with relative success. (AMCA, Tejas, HAL Prachand, MRSAM, XRSAM, AD-1 AD-2 BMD, next gen destroyer, SSBN and other strategic programs) These will gradually mature over time to deliver end products.
It is likely that, more and more any foreign purchase in such domains will jeopardize the domestic programs, and it would be deeemed unnecessary when they can have their own similar systems soon enough.


However, when it comes to BD and Pak, they don't have highly developed domestic defence industries yet that can deliver top-of-the-line hardwares.
And it will probably remain so for the next 15/20 years.

Thus, despite being much smaller economies it opens up the opertunity for the sales of expensive strategic class hardwares like KAAN, SIPER, MILDEN, Altay, T129, etc.
And we can already see such trend as Pakistan previously bought four Milgem ships for $1.5 billions, the unfortunate deal for 30 T129 as well as the recent Akinci purchase.
While BD is in talks with Türkiye for it a multi-billion dollars frigate program and it already signed a TOT agreement for various kind artillery and naval shell productions.

So i strongly suspect given the lack any meaningful defence industries in PAK and BD, (specially in BD) the volume of arms sale with these two countries Would be greater than if it was with India.

Anyway, I am only intruding in this topic given the dynamic of BD-Türkiye defence cooperation and its significance for BD's long term national security.

 

[Bürküt]

It is very interesting that, Trisula is using Israeli origin radars.

It may not be just Israeli origin radars.Indonesia ordered 13 Ground Master 400 Alpha long-range air surveillance radars with the associated SkyView Command and Control system from Thales before.I think they will want to somehow connect this system to Trisula.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681772925584646144

 

[Ecderha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681772925584646144

the production speed of AKSUNGUR is too slow. How they got that much?

 

[boredaf]

the production speed of AKSUNGUR is too slow. How they got that much?

I think they increased production numbers in recent months, I vaguely remember reading about it here.

 

[Heartbang]

Agreement between Presidency of Defense Industries and UAE Tawazun Council

SSB and Tawazun signed an agreement covering joint technology development, joint production and procurement in designated areas

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681976735506595840

Absolutely not auspicious. They cloned the TB-2, ffs.

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681976735506595840

Absolutely not auspicious. They cloned the TB-2, ffs.

Where?

 

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1681976735506595840

Absolutely not auspicious. They cloned the TB-2, ffs.

For nearly 10 years, UAE state funds have poured billions of euros into European companies that are nearly bankrupt position but have good projects. The last time I remember, ADASI bought the Italian company Piaggio Aviation for a very high price. Piaggio has had the P.1HH UCAV/Maritime UAV project, a business aircraft derivative, for a very long time, declared specs were very promising, but as far as I know it has not made any concrete progress. The indigenization efforts are very promising, they provide a lot of funding to academies and institutes, but it is not something that can happen in a few years. Apart from creating beautiful photos at fairs.

If UAE had invested its money in Turks, it would be in a much better position now. But, you know, at that time the UAE was in Lalaland. If the US continues its current Gulf policy for another 4-5 years, the consequences will be more pronounced.

 

[Heartbang]

Where?

The clone? Right here:

 

[Ripley]

It is evident that Turkish-Indian trade volume will grow exponentially in coming decade. (Which is a good thing)

However, by the time any political window for defence cooperation with India arrives, (if it ever arrives) I suspect defence cooperation with Pak and BD would be in its mature stage by then. (With BD it is now in its pre-teen and with Pakistan it is somewhat higher)

Thus, trying to have a late start with India would create a connnandrum for Türkiye. Because, there is no doubt that defence cooperation with India and defence cooperation with BD and Pak is mutually exclusive.

Of course, these are all Nation States and Türkyie can choose whomever it want to cooperate with, (and I am definitely not trying to appeal here to any absurd 'Ummah privilege') however, to me it seems the cost benefit calculation is very simple here.

The fact that India already has a stablished defence industry and it is growing exponentially, thus even if any defence cooperation were to happen it is very unlikely India buying Turkish Strategic products like KAAN, SIPER, MILDEN, I class frigate, Altay tank or T129.

Because, just like Türkiye they already have more or less similar domestic programs in motion with relative success. (AMCA, Tejas, HAL Prachand, MRSAM, XRSAM, AD-1 AD-2 BMD, next gen destroyer, SSBN and other strategic programs) These will gradually mature over time to deliver end products.
It is likely that, more and more any foreign purchase in such domains will jeopardize the domestic programs, and it would be deeemed unnecessary when they can have their own similar systems soon enough.


However, when it comes to BD and Pak, they don't have highly developed domestic defence industries yet that can deliver top-of-the-line hardwares.
And it will probably remain so for the next 15/20 years.

Thus, despite being much smaller economies it opens up the opertunity for the sales of expensive strategic class hardwares like KAAN, SIPER, MILDEN, Altay, T129, etc.
And we can already see such trend as Pakistan previously bought four Milgem ships for $1.5 billions, the unfortunate deal for 30 T129 as well as the recent Akinci purchase.
While BD is in talks with Türkiye for it a multi-billion dollars frigate program and it already signed a TOT agreement for various kind artillery and naval shell productions.

So i strongly suspect given the lack any meaningful defence industries in PAK and BD, (specially in BD) the volume of arms sale with these two countries Would be greater than if it was with India.

Anyway, I am only intruding in this topic given the dynamic of BD-Türkiye defence cooperation and its significance for BD's long term national security.

Before the admin team move this to geopolitics thread, just wanna say one last time that I didn’t mean exclusively a military HW deal.
I just wanted to express my sincere belief of developing relations at any level between India and Turkey.

Again, this is not geopolitics thread, I know but just felt that I had to say it somehow.
Thank you guys. You’re the best