TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Khagan1923]

Excuse me, this is the latest iteration of Indonesian Merah Putih Frigate.

View attachment 73432

Can anyone identify what is Aselsan multi function radar?
What is "Mete Han" ?

According to some it is possible the fixed version of Arda X-Band (Cenk-300N with its new name). Might also be Cenk-500N which is part of CAFRAD as I know, could be wrong though.

CENK 300-N - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

CENK 500-N, 600-N, 700-N SSR - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

3D surveillance would be Cenk-400N

also used on I-Class.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I have to say, I don't really understand this point of view.

Firstly, Germany was, presently is and will continue to be a large defence partner to Turkey in the future. We build our frigates and will build our destroyers with German engines, we build our submarines with German license, we built our drones with German cameras through intermediaries when Canadians didn't sell us, and hopefully we will be a part of the Eurofighter family. Just last year we signed ESSI with Germany pushing for joint air defence buy programs. All these are not past, they are present programs. Reis Class doesn't work without German okay or German companies. Reis Class construction is not moving forward free from German involvement, it's moving forward because Germans are finally working with us as they should.

German army is small, it's ineffective and lacks many basic necessities, but it is still the armed forces of the largest economy on the continent. There's this cloud of thinking that as if our defence relationship with Germany is behind us and we've rid ourselves of German dependency. It isn't, if anything, it's set to grow even larger now. With Americans being unreliable, our defence contracts with Europeans will only increase. Where do you think all those billions worth of contracts MKE and other private munitions builders signed are coming from? Germans are either one of the recipients for most or they are indirectly bankrolling it with EU and government funds for any contract in the EU.

These are all mostly old contracts that they cannot get out of without suffering very, very serious economic damage themselves.
To pretend that the German government is a friend and that this is all just a big misunderstanding is simply naïve.
As for Hensoldt's Argos Camera/FLIR Sensors, their South African subsidiary was bought, and if the german government had any levers or mechanisms to prevent this, they would have done so.

The key components for the construction of the nuclear power plant in Akkuyu were to come from Siemens Energy, that was contractually agreed and the components were paid for in advance, who blocked them through questionable customs regulations and delayed them indefinitely?
The German government!

The Leopard 2 tanks and their upgrade, spare parts in the mid 90s to early 2000s and mid 2010s blocked by whom?
The German government!

When the Altay tank was as good as finished in the mid-2010s in cooperation with Germany and Korea, with a German transmission and engine, regardless of the fact that our industry also bears a large part of the blame for this misery and did not bring an alternative as Plan B in time.... who blocked these parts? Consider the tank, even if it was an improved license clone of the Korean K2 tank, you couldn't just buy another engine and other parts elsewhere. You had to wait laboriously for Korea and its industry, and who is mainly to blame here?
The German government!

The Eurofighter deal was blocked for years; if the other consortium members, above all the UK and Spain and to some extent Italy, had not exerted massive pressure on Germany by threatening to withdraw from future European cooperation with Germany, they would still be blocking it today. Who was the driving force here?
The German government!

Turkey has bought German submarines or is building them in cooperation, the Reis-class submarines.
Who rejected the AIP system, one of the key components of the new submarines?
The German government!

There are many other examples, I won't list them all, I'm not here to criticize you... this is not meant to be an attack.
But Germany is inconsistent when it comes to armaments and strategic partnerships.
Bilateral trade with them yes, cooperation on cultural and economic issues yes, should continue, but armaments or even cooperation on key technologies where they could exert pressure again.
We should never do business with them again,
The past has shown that they have abused it again and again, and that has damaged relations for both. It is better to exclude these areas with the Germans.

 

[Sanchez]

These are all mostly old contracts that they cannot get out of without suffering very, very serious economic damage themselves.

Disagree on this. They've shown that when they wanted to they are very much able to either directly stop or really slow down programs.

To pretend that the German government is a friend and that this is all just a big misunderstanding

?. Countries don't have friends. They also don't have enemies. There's only money to be made, this is something the current government excels in. What Repkon sold Germany is made by plenty of companies around the world and if it wasn't won by Repkon, it would be won and delivered by another company. It's only to be lauded that a Turkish company won here.

But Germany is inconsistent when it comes to armaments and strategic partnerships.

Nope, they are very consistent actually. They have fixed rules and lobbying groups and they don't want us to get too independent from their influence.

cooperation on cultural

On the contrary, German NGOs operating in Turkey must be curtailed, not the other way around.

It is better to exclude these areas with the Germans

Selling Germans Turkish equipment with Turkish IPs is a good thing. It makes us a part of their munitions supply line that they have to depend on.

Generally, should Turkey join the German led FCAS? No. Should Turkish firms join FCAS as subcontractors and put their IPs in European projects? Most definitely. There's a very fine but clear line between the two. EU is dependent on Turkish goods and we are dependent on EU money. They should be more dependent on Turkish defence goods as well. That could only help guarantee them not fucking up our own EU linked procurement programs. Up until now, there were no levers we could pull in a similar fashion when they decided to put embargoes on our procurement. We will have more levers to pull a decade later. This factory is just one small part of those levers. We want them to think next time they entertain the idea of an embargo on something we need, they will also need to think about their own programs being delayed due to Turkish subsystems not being delivered on time and their munitions pledges to Ukraine and soon Eastern NATO nations to not be fulfilled.

 

[hugh]

Disagree on this. They've shown that when they wanted to they are very much able to either directly stop or really slow down programs.


?. Countries don't have friends. They also don't have enemies. There's only money to be made, this is something the current government excels in. What Repkon sold Germany is made by plenty of companies around the world and if it wasn't won by Repkon, it would be won and delivered by another company. It's only to be lauded that a Turkish company won here.


Nope, they are very consistent actually. They have fixed rules and lobbying groups and they don't want us to get too independent from their influence.


On the contrary, German NGOs operating in Turkey must be curtailed, not the other way around.


Selling Germans Turkish equipment with Turkish IPs is a good thing. It makes us a part of their munitions supply line that they have to depend on.

Generally, should Turkey join the German led FCAS? No. Should Turkish firms join FCAS as subcontractors and put their IPs in European projects? Most definitely. There's a very fine but clear line between the two. EU is dependent on Turkish goods and we are dependent on EU money. They should be more dependent on Turkish defence goods as well. That could only help guarantee them not fucking up our own EU linked procurement programs. Up until now, there were no levers we could pull in a similar fashion when they decided to put embargoes on our procurement. We will have more levers to pull a decade later. This factory is just one small part of those levers. We want them to think next time they entertain the idea of an embargo on something we need, they will also need to think about their own programs being delayed due to Turkish subsystems not being delivered on time and their munitions pledges to Ukraine and soon Eastern NATO nations to not be fulfilled.

we will make billions

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1888909657256722820

 

[zio]

Roketsan çakır or atmaca missile will be on malaysian navy

 

[TR_123456]

Why are we helping them even if money certainly played a major role in this decision?
They have blocked and sanctioned us wherever they could.
Even with the Eurofighter deal, they only agreed to it because of the immense pressure from the other consortium members and the consequences for Germany. I would not support Germany militarily, they are simply too unreliable.

This is not helping,this is business and wether we like it or not there is no disconnecting from each other for Germany or Türkiye economicly or militarily(defence sector).
Dont worry about sanctions,they are not in that position anymore.

 

[Umigami]

ASELSAN Provides Mete Han MFR to Indonesia’s Future Frigates | TURDEF

Indonesia’s future Merah Putih-class frigates will be equipped with ASELSAN’s Mete Han multi-function AESA radar, marking a new export in naval radars.

turdef.com

 

[Sanchez]

Desan to build a "Multi-Purpose Mission Ship" for Malaysian Coast Guard. Per the newspiece, program was allocated a budget of about 80 million dollars last year. No news so far on the options being activated for LMS batch 2.

Maritime Malaysia Acquires Multi-Purpose Mission Ship (MPMS) from Türkiye - Defence Security Asia

The Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) is set to acquire a Multi-Purpose Mission Ship (MPMS) built by Turkish shipbuilder Desan Shipyard.

defencesecurityasia.com

 

[PutinBro]

I wonder how metehan compares with APAR-2

Indonesia’s Merah Putih-class Frigate: What You Need to Know - Naval News

A newly released infographic of the under-construction 140-meter frigate for the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL)—known as the Red White Frigate (Fregat Merah Putih)—reveals key details of its combat system configuration.

www.navalnews.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889360212282200573

 

[Sanchez]

Indonesia "placed a large order" for Akıncı and TB3s.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889587988876894251

 

[hugh]

Indonesia "placed a large order" for Akıncı and TB3s.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889587988876894251

It's good for the country and for BAYKAR but why is TAI not receiving any love? Does the government pitch only BAYKAR's products when doing these visits? Or is TAI's drones inferior or sth?

 

[Sanchez]

It's good for the country and for BAYKAR but why is TAI not receiving any love? Does the government pitch only BAYKAR's products when doing these visits? Or is TAI's drones inferior or sth?

Indonesia signed a 300 million deal for Anka-S back in 2023.

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889593346

Indonesia "placed a large order" for Akıncı and TB3s.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889587988876894251

great news. hopefully the process would be materialized in near term.

 

[Sanchez]

Desan to build a "Multi-Purpose Mission Ship" for Malaysian Coast Guard. Per the newspiece, program was allocated a budget of about 80 million dollars last year. No news so far on the options being activated for LMS batch 2.

Maritime Malaysia Acquires Multi-Purpose Mission Ship (MPMS) from Türkiye - Defence Security Asia

The Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) is set to acquire a Multi-Purpose Mission Ship (MPMS) built by Turkish shipbuilder Desan Shipyard.

defencesecurityasia.com

View attachment 73492

Details of the design are lacking. Not clear if this is a Desan design or they will just build it.

From Malaysian sources: "MPMS have a endurance of 30 days without resupply , will carried 4 Fast Interceptor Craft ( FIC ) , a heli deck , medical and prisoner facilities....Multi-Purpose Mothership will have a length of 99 meters and accomodation for 70 crews and 30 passengers."
source.

It is a nice little ship, but it clearly shows low cost was the main driving feature of the design. We still are unable to sell larger vessels in bigger numbers, more than 3500 tons, save for AORs.

great news. hopefully the process would be materialized in near term.

I was expecting an Akıncı sale for some time, but TB3 was a surprise. With or without a flattop ship like an Indonesian Anadolu or Garibaldi, TB3's STOL design will help Indonesia project power over its island chains without the need for larger runways.

 

[Sanchez]

Indonesia "placed a large order" for Akıncı and TB3s.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889587988876894251

More details: Two deals were signed, Baykar and Roketsan will create two joint venture companies with the Indonesian state owned Republikorp.

Baykar deal:

"The first agreement was signed between Baykar Makina, a global leader in Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) technology, and Republikorp. The collaboration aims to establish a Joint Venture Company (JVC) that will focus on the production, assembly, and maintenance of UAVs in Indonesia.

The main products to be localized include 60 sets of Medium-Altitude Long-Endurance (MALE) TB3 Bayraktar class UAVs and 9 sets of High-Altitude Long-Endurance (HALE) Akinci Bayraktar, which will support the strategy of strengthening the aerospace industry and national defense independence.

Baykar Makina, led by CEO Haluk Bayraktar, will contribute manufacturing expertise, technology transfer and training. Baykar is known as a global leader in developing advanced UAVs that meet international standards.

Republikorp, under the leadership of Chairman Norman Joesoef, will ensure regulatory compliance, infrastructure development, certification of local experts, and integration of UAVs into Indonesia’s defense ecosystem.

Through this partnership, Indonesia will strengthen its capabilities in regional monitoring, national security, and defense operations. In addition, this collaboration also opens up opportunities for innovation, research, and development of UAV technology at the regional level."

Roketsan deal:

"The agreement also aims to establish a Joint Venture Company that will focus on localizing the production of advanced guided missile systems such as anti-ship cruise missiles and multi-platform missiles in Indonesia. The main priorities of this JVC are technology transfer, increasing the capacity of the domestic defense industry, and developing the national workforce through training programs for Indonesian engineers and technicians.

Roketsan, currently led by CEO Murat İkinci, has extensive experience in developing advanced rockets, missiles and defense systems. As Turkey's only defense company with CMMI/DEV 3 certification, Roketsan was also instrumental in establishing Turkey's first satellite launch center in 2013.

Republikorp, as a national private defense industry holding, focuses on technological innovation and global technology transfer to support Indonesia's defense and security needs. Through this partnership, Republikorp is committed to mastering multi-platform missile technology and strengthening the national defense industry supply chain."

--

Both agreements emphasize the importance of technology transfer and strengthening national capacity as the foundation for building a self-reliant and sustainable defense industry. Roketsan will lead technology transfer in the field of missile systems, including intellectual property licensing, production expertise, and technical training.

Baykar Makina will provide training and technical support to ensure the UAVs produced comply with international standards, as well as increase the competitiveness of the national aerospace sector.

In addition, both JVCs will work with local industries to optimize the supply chain and reduce dependence on imported components. This collaboration will not only reduce dependence on imported components but also position Indonesia as part of the global supply chain in the defense industry.

https://www.jawapos.com/hankam/015637331/indonesia-turki-perkuat-kemitraan-strategis-dalam-industri-uav-melalui-joint-venture-agreement

@Lordimperator

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Morocco is expanding its defense cooperation with Turkey in order to modernize its army. During the Moroccan delegation’s meetings with ASELSAN, the establishment of joint research centers and the production of some critical defense systems in Morocco were also on the agenda.

The cooperation is planned to focus on electronic systems, smart solutions, and unmanned aerial platforms.

It was also reported that the two sides held talks on the purchase of a new combat management system aimed at increasing the Moroccan kingdom's maritime defense capabilities.


Source:

Fas, Türkiye ile silah işbirliğini derinleştiriyor

Fas, ordusunu modernize etmek amacıyla Türkiye ile savunma işbirliğini genişletiyor. Fas heyetinin ASELSAN ile gerçekleştirilen görüşmelerde, ortak araştırma merkezleri kurulması ve bazı kritik savunma sistemlerinin Fas’ta üretilmesi konusu da gündeme geldi.

www.karar.com

 

[Lordimperator]

More details: Two deals were signed, Baykar and Roketsan will create two joint venture companies with the Indonesian state owned Republikorp.

Baykar deal:

"The first agreement was signed between Baykar Makina, a global leader in Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) technology, and Republikorp. The collaboration aims to establish a Joint Venture Company (JVC) that will focus on the production, assembly, and maintenance of UAVs in Indonesia.

The main products to be localized include 60 sets of Medium-Altitude Long-Endurance (MALE) TB3 Bayraktar class UAVs and 9 sets of High-Altitude Long-Endurance (HALE) Akinci Bayraktar, which will support the strategy of strengthening the aerospace industry and national defense independence.

Baykar Makina, led by CEO Haluk Bayraktar, will contribute manufacturing expertise, technology transfer and training. Baykar is known as a global leader in developing advanced UAVs that meet international standards.

Republikorp, under the leadership of Chairman Norman Joesoef, will ensure regulatory compliance, infrastructure development, certification of local experts, and integration of UAVs into Indonesia’s defense ecosystem.

Through this partnership, Indonesia will strengthen its capabilities in regional monitoring, national security, and defense operations. In addition, this collaboration also opens up opportunities for innovation, research, and development of UAV technology at the regional level."

Roketsan deal:

"The agreement also aims to establish a Joint Venture Company that will focus on localizing the production of advanced guided missile systems such as anti-ship cruise missiles and multi-platform missiles in Indonesia. The main priorities of this JVC are technology transfer, increasing the capacity of the domestic defense industry, and developing the national workforce through training programs for Indonesian engineers and technicians.

Roketsan, currently led by CEO Murat İkinci, has extensive experience in developing advanced rockets, missiles and defense systems. As Turkey's only defense company with CMMI/DEV 3 certification, Roketsan was also instrumental in establishing Turkey's first satellite launch center in 2013.

Republikorp, as a national private defense industry holding, focuses on technological innovation and global technology transfer to support Indonesia's defense and security needs. Through this partnership, Republikorp is committed to mastering multi-platform missile technology and strengthening the national defense industry supply chain."

--

Both agreements emphasize the importance of technology transfer and strengthening national capacity as the foundation for building a self-reliant and sustainable defense industry. Roketsan will lead technology transfer in the field of missile systems, including intellectual property licensing, production expertise, and technical training.

Baykar Makina will provide training and technical support to ensure the UAVs produced comply with international standards, as well as increase the competitiveness of the national aerospace sector.

In addition, both JVCs will work with local industries to optimize the supply chain and reduce dependence on imported components. This collaboration will not only reduce dependence on imported components but also position Indonesia as part of the global supply chain in the defense industry.

https://www.jawapos.com/hankam/015637331/indonesia-turki-perkuat-kemitraan-strategis-dalam-industri-uav-melalui-joint-venture-agreement

@Lordimperator

wow, 60 Tb3 and 9 Akinci

 

[boredaf]

wow, 60 Tb3 and 9 Akinci

Wasn't there some news about you lot looking at building an LHD? There is a good chance some of those TB3's would be for that, if it is true.

 

[Lordimperator]

Wasn't there some news about you lot looking at building an LHD? There is a good chance some of those TB3's would be for that, if it is true.

Likely we are eyeing for 2ndhand LHD, for the express procurements

 

[AlterUnd]

Details of the design are lacking. Not clear if this is a Desan design or they will just build it.

From Malaysian sources: "MPMS have a endurance of 30 days without resupply , will carried 4 Fast Interceptor Craft ( FIC ) , a heli deck , medical and prisoner facilities....Multi-Purpose Mothership will have a length of 99 meters and accomodation for 70 crews and 30 passengers."
source.


View attachment 73498

It is a nice little ship, but it clearly shows low cost was the main driving feature of the design. We still are unable to sell larger vessels in bigger numbers, more than 3500 tons, save for AORs.



I was expecting an Akıncı sale for some time, but TB3 was a surprise. With or without a flattop ship like an Indonesian Anadolu or Garibaldi, TB3's STOL design will help Indonesia project power over its island chains without the need for larger runways.

Desan has no design facilities, it is designed by SEFT Design & Engineering, also possible that SEFT backed by STM for design inputs and conceptualization and Desan is chosen for building spot, same as happening with Istanbul Shipyard for LMSB2.