TR Economy & Updates

Saithan

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Who is the new MoF

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Anmdt

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Who is the new MoF

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And islamist guy who supports low interest low import low external debt low trade deficit scheme.
Literally : poors shouldnt buy imported items, companies shouldnt get foreign loan, investors should bring cash, not investments via crediting.

In short: an islamist with no knowledge of what an economy is and how it runs but we all know what he is good at it.
 

Nutuk

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Apart from the jokes the fallout of tourism for a great part makes herself feel.

We have each year about $40bln deficit in trade, a big part of this deficit was compensated by tourism income which now due to Covid is strongly reduced -> result we need to borrow more. Economy is actually more understandable than many think: borrowing more automatically depreciates the value of your money.

It is not hard to tell that stabilization of our economy can only come when tourism get back to old levels and that depends on all the covid developments (omicron virus ain't gonna make it easier)
 

Anastasius

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Turkey needs to get back to 2 or 3 lira per USD exchange rate. That's the only way the economy will recover.

"B-b-but the trade deficit!"

Exports aren't doing anything anyway, Turkey's total growth is still in very minor percentages if you don't count recovery from the coronavirus-inflicted damage. Import costs are through the roof which makes it more difficult to acquire foreign expertise and manufacture higher-quality products. You won't build a powerhouse economy on selling fabrics and other basic goods.

At this point, I'm genuinely thinking that Erdogan is trying to damage Turkey while on his way out. Which means that he must meet the same fate as Menderes.
 

Saithan

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Turkey needs to get back to 2 or 3 lira per USD exchange rate. That's the only way the economy will recover.

"B-b-but the trade deficit!"

Exports aren't doing anything anyway, Turkey's total growth is still in very minor percentages if you don't count recovery from the coronavirus-inflicted damage. Import costs are through the roof which makes it more difficult to acquire foreign expertise and manufacture higher-quality products. You won't build a powerhouse economy on selling fabrics and other basic goods.

At this point, I'm genuinely thinking that Erdogan is trying to damage Turkey while on his way out. Which means that he must meet the same fate as Menderes.
Why does the TL have to get back to 2-3 TL per USD ? That is a wrong misconception and wrong way of thinking.

You need to stabilize the economy and build a solid economy and take it from there. not aim for 2-3 TL exchange rate.

2-3 Trillion USD worth debt ownage should solve the instability. Of course not having any debt ourselves would cement the strenght of the economy.
 

Lupus

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Well todays economic plan is to have greater export then import so we dont have to ask for dollars outside.

But my question will be that we also have to find aditional 200 billion dollars for a year to pay our (private and public sector) foreign dept. (total dept:500 billion usd) Why nobody talks about this issue ?? Does anyone have an idea ?

So I think we will have to ask for foreign exchange anyway unless we have 600 billion usd export and 400 billion usd import which is pretty much impossible for a long period. And also if we want 600 billion usd export which is 400 billion usd higher then our currunt position we will need approximately 1.5 trillion usd of invesment :) and also we need highly qualified workers and they sould be in millions in numbers which is also not possible for a long time. There are lots to add but this will be enough for now.
Am I missing a point ??
 
T

Turko

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From 2002 to 2010 usd/TL rate dropped however our exports were growing.
So devaluation of money doesn't always bring Export increase.

I will try to find statistics and i will edit here.


EXPORT ON VALUE AND AMOUNT

Blue: million ton
Red : million USD

Screenshot_2021-12-02-16-15-35-919_cn.wps.moffice_eng.jpg


CHANGE COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS YEAR (%)
Blue:Quantity
Red: Value
Screenshot_2021-12-02-16-17-29-721_cn.wps.moffice_eng.jpg



Now compare the rate of Turkish exports with rate of USD/TL

You can see strong TL brought more export rates.
From 2003 to 2011 rate of USD was minus but Turkish exports skyrocketed.

images.jpeg


IMG_20211202_164056.jpg

İ made for our precious members a spreadsheet. Please look which chapter of imports could you sacrifice.

Screenshot_2021-12-02-15-53-00-542_cn.wps.moffice_eng.jpg

IMG_20211202_160046.jpg
 
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Nutuk

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In this case not Turkey but the international market is devaluating the Turkish currency.
 

HTurk

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Turkey needs to get back to 2 or 3 lira per USD exchange rate. That's the only way the economy will recover.

"B-b-but the trade deficit!"

Exports aren't doing anything anyway, Turkey's total growth is still in very minor percentages if you don't count recovery from the coronavirus-inflicted damage. Import costs are through the roof which makes it more difficult to acquire foreign expertise and manufacture higher-quality products. You won't build a powerhouse economy on selling fabrics and other basic goods.

At this point, I'm genuinely thinking that Erdogan is trying to damage Turkey while on his way out. Which means that he must meet the same fate as Menderes.
1 USD for 2 TRY?! This would be worse than the current situation.

Imports are still high.

It's because people are buying all kinds of imported goods before it gets too expensive.
 
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Manomed

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To those saying "exports exports exports", "trade deficit will be erased" in some "reach for a plan"....or "things have to get so bad/extreme so that they can curl up and meet good"...."omelette needs eggs to be broken etc"....

or whatever variant of <insert export miracle model by F=ma its so simple> by simple F applied lever....without looking at m (m being basic investment)....and talking in whichever way about "a"

One simple question....if that is the understanding or "objective".....why is Central Bank selling dollars to support Lira then? :unsure:

Wouldn't you want the TL to depreciate as extreme as possible....for the exports tra-la-la-la result?

It is obvious as hell that NO, the objective (even from the lunacy perspective) is not about exports/trade deficit at all.

You would NOT be selling scarce + borrowed USD to defend a Lira rate.

You would WANT the TL to depreciate so that you "export more" "easily" right?

So why the pitting of two forces against each other?
=================================================

This is the single most ridiculous thing going on in any major economy in the world right now.

Lowering interest rates (signalling more to come too) while selling US dollars (that you have swapped for since you are already in negative) to defend the currency.
Even a non turk knows better about Turkish economy then so called economy expert akp supporters here
 
M

Manomed

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1 USD for 2 TRY?! This would be worse than the current situation.



It's because people are buying all kinds of imported goods before it gets too expensive.
Yeah lets starve to death we buy everything from outside with dollars and euros

10000 year old ottoman economical ideology lets live in palaces while Turks suffer because of our idiotcy
 

Huelague

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1 USD for 2 TRY?! This would be worse than the current situation.



It's because people are buying all kinds of imported goods before it gets too expensive.
Because of our affinity for foreign stuffs. We deserve no better. Erdogan must lift up exchange rate to 1€ - 20 Lira.
 
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Nilgiri

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But my question will be that we also have to find aditional 200 billion dollars for a year to pay our (private and public sector) foreign dept. (total dept:500 billion usd) Why nobody talks about this issue ?? Does anyone have an idea ?

It's been talked about a number of times....search "debt" in this thread....I commented few times ~ 200 billion matures in FY 2022.

24 billion or so matured in late November (just completed)....that was the single largest monthly maturity Turkey had to pay (i.e avoid default) till then and I don't think any month upcoming will be that high....but the repayment schedule (simple 200/12 = 17 on average per month) is still severe.

That is part of reason you are seeing TL go extra bad right now....was this november repayment.

All kind of currency swaps were done by TCB (to pay this debt)....on top of USD selling to try hold TL value. It is creating a crazy (unsustainable) suction demand of USD that Turkey (govt) is throwing last reserves of its credibility (leveraging larger national credibility as well) to finance.

The continued debt pressure will mean continued depreciation, loss of further long term Lira credibility (as more non-market swaps are done...which are political leverages other countries will call in later) and of course inflation.

The net balance of payment has to equal zero (i.e current and capital account have to sum to zero....same thing as energy/mass can neither be created or destroyed, just transferred).

Current account is in deficit, so capital account is in surplus by same amount (even though most of "visible" capital account is in deficit).

People might think "capital account surplus" is good (surplus = good), when it can be really bad....as it depends which components of the capital account are the surplus components ( i.e is the surplus provided "invisibly"?).

In this case, its the currency swap (regarding forex) process providing the surplus (in capital account and essentially funding the current account deficit)....all of which carry significant compromises for TR geopolitically.

Extent of nature of which can only be investigated and explored by fresh pair of eyes (new administration).


So I think we will have to ask for foreign exchange anyway unless we have 600 billion usd export and 400 billion usd import which is pretty much impossible for a long period.

Well not exactly. Debt is mostly mid-long term and put in capital account (as capital acct liability i.e negative)

What you are talking about (exports - imports) is a 1 year time frame of current account (exports are + and imports are - ...and there are some other "current" income flows too ).

Current account surplus will be very useful in the overall balance of payment structure (as the pressure feeds to capital account pressure for govt to buy monetary instruments in USD etc to stockpile as forex...as assets in cap Acct i.e positive).....but not necessary.

It is generally good to have as long term objective though as it is sign of naturally productive economic expansion (relative to world)....and like you mention needs good investment in all resources (capital, human etc).

But the immediate issue for Turkey is the capital account. This needs to be squared away and solid (it is the base) before current account structure strategy comes into picture. Current account leverages a HUGE deal from the capital account after all.

In short and mid term, Turkey can only shore up its capital account by increasing credibility and trust (in both Lira and the system backing it and operating with it) to attract long term savings and investors in currencies it does not issue (USD, Euro etc).

Turkey credit rating is speculative for example (BB range). It is likely to downgrade further with these atrocious mixed-signalling policies being done. Ideally Turkey needs to get that credit rating to investment grade and keep it there for a long time.

This conversation only really starts with a new administration.
 

Nilgiri

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Because of our affinity for foreign stuffs. We deserve no better. Erdogan must cut exchange rate to 1€ - 20 Lira.

Please start a protest movement against TCB (a totally Erdogan/AKP controlled institution now).

Ask them why they are getting in the way of depreciation to 15, 20, 25 (whatever number you want to achieve X% demand compression and what that will inflict on Turkey for 10 - 20 years) and selling USD (that its borrowing) now to defend at 13...

Surely AKP admin must make up its mind on the basics....and not press throttle and brake at same time, and say "enjoy the noise and pollution!" "RPM's go brrrrr" with no movement?

Why sell dollars to (try) keep TL at 13? Just let it depreciate to 20 surely?

Complete Mao kind of idea (demand compression and extreme forced autarky no matter the cost)....there is a reason CCP kicked out his designated successor in a few short years and switched to Deng. PRC did not turn out to be a scaled up version of North Korea for a reason you know.

But hey if you dont want to learn from any of that, and attempt this totalitarianism in this day and age....you will get a result very quickly. It will quicken result of 2023, thats all.
 

HTurk

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Yeah lets starve to death we buy everything from outside with dollars and euros

10000 year old ottoman economical ideology lets live in palaces while Turks suffer because of our idiotcy
Just spend the money you actually have in your bank account, okay? This is why I will never vote for CHP and other Kemalist parties. They act as if the common Turk is incredibly wise and knows how to spend and invest his or her money. This is not the case.

Our people love to show off, to spend their money on foreign goods like Bosch washing machines even though the Turkish equivalent is cheaper and equally good. They still are going to choose the foreign brand for the sake of boasting and making the neighbors jealous.

All of them are in debts, all of them don't care about tomorrow, almost every single one in Turkey outright sees working as something bad or dirty. They don't have no work ethics or moral compass. They wait in line for the next credit, mortgage, installment even though they know precisely that paying back is simply not possible.

Whatever happens to them economically, they deserve worse.
 

Huelague

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Just spend the money you actually have in your bank account, okay? This is why I will never vote for CHP and other Kemalist parties. They act as if the common Turk is incredibly wise and knows how to spend and invest his or her money. This is not the case.

Our people love to show off, to spend their money on foreign goods like Bosch washing machines even though the Turkish equivalent is cheaper and equally good. They still are going to choose the foreign brand for the sake of boasting and making the neighbors jealous.

All of them are in debts, all of them don't care about tomorrow, almost every single one in Turkey outright sees working as something bad or dirty. They don't have no work ethics or moral compass. They wait in line for the next credit, mortgage, installment even though they know precisely that paying back is simply not possible.

Whatever happens to them economically, they deserve worse.
Thank You!
 

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