TR Economy & Updates

[what]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Airport for Sale Tells a Tale of $140 Billion Turkish Overreach​

 

[Saithan]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Airport for Sale Tells a Tale of $140 Billion Turkish Overreach​

It’s like this article was written for @Zafer

 

[Zafer]

It’s like this article was written for @Zafer

Risk and profit are siblings, you need to be willing to take the risk to earn the possible profit.
One need to be happy that it is a private company situation rather than a public one.
Isn't it unbelievable how infrastructures of the nation are still being built while viruses ravage the world economy.
The Turkish government is doing an amazing job.

 

[LegionnairE]

Risk and profit are siblings, you need to be willing to take the risk to earn the possible profit.
One need to be happy that it is a private company situation rather than a public one.
Isn't it unbelievable how infrastructures of the nation are still being built while viruses ravage the world economy.
The Turkish government is doing an amazing job.

I went to Kütahya recently using the 80 year old train line built by Atatürk. Nobody uses this airport, there are no flights

You're a joke.

 

[Lool]

Risk and profit are siblings, you need to be willing to take the risk to earn the possible profit.
One need to be happy that it is a private company situation rather than a public one.
Isn't it unbelievable how infrastructures of the nation are still being built while viruses ravage the world economy.
The Turkish government is doing an amazing job.

Hm..... it is a bit difficult to explain tbh

I wont say that the government is doing a bad job; but saying "amazing" is a bit of an overreach I guess
Iam not criticising the government's modus operandi per say. Before the pandemic, the government's modus operandi was great. Building too many infrastructure in a short time period by giving ownership to private companies by promising a certain threshold of ppl or sales every month or year as a minimum for profit or gain and if such a threshold didnt get achieved, the government may pay the difference to ensure you get a profit. (This is one of the main methods used by the government)

In an economy at high gear, this method would be fantastic as it will help in building a lot of infrastructure with less money possible in a short time frame; thus providing good ground for super growth as well as more jobs creation which helps the economy overall but does reduce the profits in long term
However, it isnt perfect per say. No government policy is perfect worldwide, each has its own drawback and in the case of the current government's policy, the pandemic is its kryptonite!

 

[Lool]

I went to Kütahya recently using the 80 year old train line built by Atatürk. Nobody uses this airport, there are no flights

You're a joke.

There are no flights because there are no tourists
This airport was mainly built on the premises of getting tourists and not turkish citizens living within the country
This is why the airport is losing money
Read my post above

 

[Zafer]

Hm..... it is a bit difficult to explain tbh

I wont say that the government is doing a bad job; but saying "amazing" is a bit of an overreach I guess
Iam not criticising the government's modus operandi per say. Before the pandemic, the government's modus operandi was great. Building too many infrastructure in a short time period by giving ownership to private companies by promising a certain threshold of ppl or sales every month or year as a minimum for profit or gain and if such a threshold didnt get achieved, the government may pay the difference to ensure you get a profit. (This is one of the main methods used by the government)

In an economy at high gear, this method would be fantastic as it will help in building a lot of infrastructure with less money possible in a short time frame; thus providing good ground for super growth as well as more jobs creation which helps the economy overall but does reduce the profits in long term
However, it isnt perfect per say. No government policy is perfect worldwide, each has its own drawback and in the case of the current government's policy, the pandemic is its kryptonite!

The pandemic didn't hit Turkey as hard as it did other countries.

Our exports is at all time high expected to exceed targets reaching $210bn.
Our unemployment is down 2% at 10.6% (?)

Our economy is ticking

 

[LegionnairE]

There are no flights because there are no tourists
This airport was mainly built on the premises of getting tourists and not turkish citizens living within the country
This is why the airport is losing money
Read my post above

There are so many things wrong with this airport I don't have time to type them all here but to be brief:

The main point of every government construction project in the last 20 years is to make those construction companies rich who are friendly with the ruling party. The business model is absolutely absurd, the government pays for everything but these companies make all the money. Government takes all the risks and these companies take all the benefits. It's mind-bogglingly corrupt I am shocked to see that anybody would defend this practice.

And no amount of logic and reasoning is going to convince someone who is likely a paid troll so don't bother with him.

 

[Lool]

The pandemic didn't hit Turkey as hard as it did other countries.

Our exports is at all time high expected to exceed targets reaching $210bn.
Our unemployment is down 2% at 10.6% (?)

Our economy is ticking

Yes that is true, unlike many countries, the pandemic didnt hit Turkey as hard as it hit other economies and yes it is true that the government did respond well to the pandemic compared to most of its counterparts. However, saying that the economy is "ticking" per say is wrong tbh

Turkey as a country is mainly dependent on exports and tourism.
Tourism (which Turkey, since its founding, always used to cover its deficit with ) was hit badly since most countries had to be on lockdown which exposed the deficit and increased fhe dollars outflow that much is easy to understand
Now lets talk about exports, since many countries did enter lockdown, their consuming capacity for turkish products decreased; thus, reducing the demand for turkish exports which means less working and means more layoffs and firing which will shoot the unemployment rates to the moon and reduce the overall GDP of the country along with growth which means less jobs produced and more competition with the new generation for jobs which is catastrophic as it will lead to riots and civil unrest just like Tunisia. Is that everything? The answer is NO! Due to the pandemic, the purchasing power of many countries fell to the rock bottom; thus, even if they recovered from the pandemic, they would need at least 3 to 4 years to be able to buy Turkish products again going by the value of 1US= 5Lira which means that they will opt to cheaper products and Turkey will lose its export market for good and will need around 5 years post pandemic to return to their original market

Now in order to fix this, the government dropped the lira's value to 1US=8.4 Lira which gave the export market some leeway to be able to buy turkish products again; as a result, it saved current jobs, growth, export, and future generations jobs while reducing the trade deficit. However, it isnt all sunshine, since Turkey is also dependent on imports for day to day life which means that the price of imports slyrocketed and the purchasing power of Turks decreased which reduced their standard of living and made it harder to pay debts both public and private. The cuurent modus operandi would have been perfect and the gold standard if the Turks werent too reliant on imports for day to day life activities.

Now which path is the right path? The answer is none, both has its pros and cons and it depends on economists to determine so and even economists have conflicting views regarding the issue depending on how they view the "economy" per say. However, all do agree that Turkey needs to Export more and Import less to add value to the economy, reduce reliance on foreign counterparts, and reduce trade deficit and amount of dollars leaving the country just like @what said before

So saying that the economy is "ticking" as if everything is okay isnt right tbh but assuming that Turkey is also screwed up (just like how the opposition portray it) is also wrong. Although iam one of those in favour of strong lira theory.... I may athe end of the day may be wrong

I wanna get to the political part of the issue but I feel that it became way too long so lets keep it for another time

 

[LegionnairE]

@Lool

A stagnating GDP while the population is rapidly growing means that people are getting poorer.
There's no need to type two pages of essay to explain or understand this. It's really that simple.

As a developing economy, Turkey should be growing faster than developed countries. The current situation is completely due to political mismanagement. As for Tourism it was doing poorly even before the pandemic due to Turkey's declining image in the world. You need to visit Sultanahmet now to understand why it's so fucked now, they turned Hagia Sophia into a mosque and the police closed everywhere.

 

[Lool]

There are so many things wrong with this airport I don't have time to type them all here but to be brief:

The main point of every government construction project in the last 20 years is to make those construction companies rich who are friendly with the ruling party. The business model is absolutely absurd, the government pays for everything but these companies make all the money. Government takes all the risks and these companies take all the benefits. It's mind-bogglingly corrupt I am shocked to see that anybody would defend this practice.

And no amount of logic and reasoning is going to convince someone who is likely a paid troll so don't bother with him.

As a Turk you do know more about the airport so I guess you may be right on that
And yeah, I believe that @Zafer is way toooo optimistic about the econony

 

[Lool]

@Lool

A stagnating GDP while the population is rapidly growing means that people are getting poorer.
There's no need to type two pages of essay to explain or understand this. It's really that simple.

Yeah i did say that in the last part of the essay.... loool
Lets see how THE GDP will turn out this year.... forecasts are around 770 billion.
Hope it doesnt turn worse

As a developing economy, Turkey should be growing faster than developed countries. The current situation is completely due to political mismanagement. As for Tourism it was doing poorly even before the pandemic due to Turkey's declining image in the world. You need to visit Sultanahmet now to understand why it's so fucked now, they turned Hagia Sophia into a mosque and the police closed everywhere.

Not really, as for the number of tourists, I do believe that Turkspey recorded the highest number of foreign tourists in 2019 ever recorded so I cant say that Tourism was stagnating tbh

Turkey Tourist Arrivals

Tourist Arrivals in Turkey decreased to 2047158 in January from 2483756 in December of 2023. This page provides the latest reported value for - Turkey Tourist Arrivals - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term prediction, economic calendar, survey...

tradingeconomics.com

And just a question, Iam one of those who believe in a sensible equality, why can Spain turn top class Umayyad Clliphate's mosques into Churches while the Turks arent permitted to turn Hagia Sophia into a mosque
The double standard is just outright appaling and the fact that Turks arent pissed by the idea is making me surprised
And if Turkey can say FQ You to the USA by buying the S400 then you guys also have the right to say FQ You to the EU when you wanna convert the churches into mosques. It makes me feel as If the West literally are treating Turks not as equals but as second class citizens which isnt a good thing at all.
They need to know that the Turks can also bite if they feel threatened or are treated unfairly

 

[Zafer]

Yes that is true, unlike many countries, the pandemic didnt hit Turkey as hard as it hit other economies and yes it is true that the government did respond well to the pandemic compared to most of its counterparts. However, saying that the economy is "ticking" per say is wrong tbh

Turkey as a country is mainly dependent on exports and tourism.
Tourism (which Turkey, since its founding, always used to cover its deficit with ) was hit badly since most countries had to be on lockdown which exposed the deficit and increased fhe dollars outflow that much is easy to understand
Now lets talk about exports, since many countries did enter lockdown, their consuming capacity for turkish products decreased; thus, reducing the demand for turkish exports which means less working and means more layoffs and firing which will shoot the unemployment rates to the moon and reduce the overall GDP of the country along with growth which means less jobs produced and more competition with the new generation for jobs which is catastrophic as it will lead to riots and civil unrest just like Tunisia. Is that everything? The answer is NO! Due to the pandemic, the purchasing power of many countries fell to the rock bottom; thus, even if they recovered from the pandemic, they would need at least 3 to 4 years to be able to buy Turkish products again going by the value of 1US= 5Lira which means that they will opt to cheaper products and Turkey will lose its export market for good and will need around 5 years post pandemic to return to their original market

Now in order to fix this, the government dropped the lira's value to 1US=8.4 Lira which gave the export market some leeway to be able to buy turkish products again; as a result, it saved current jobs, growth, export, and future generations jobs while reducing the trade deficit. However, it isnt all sunshine, since Turkey is also dependent on imports for day to day life which means that the price of imports slyrocketed and the purchasing power of Turks decreased which reduced their standard of living and made it harder to pay debts both public and private. The cuurent modus operandi would have been perfect and the gold standard if the Turks werent too reliant on imports for day to day life activities.

Now which path is the right path? The answer is none, both has its pros and cons and it depends on economists to determine so and even economists have conflicting views regarding the issue depending on how they view the "economy" per say. However, all do agree that Turkey needs to Export more and Import less to add value to the economy, reduce reliance on foreign counterparts, and reduce trade deficit and amount of dollars leaving the country just like @what said before

So saying that the economy is "ticking" as if everything is okay isnt right tbh but assuming that Turkey is also screwed up (just like how the opposition portray it) is also wrong. Although iam one of those in favour of strong lira theory.... I may athe end of the day may be wrong

I wanna get to the political part of the issue but I feel that it became way too long so lets keep it for another time

Demand does not explain the whole picture about trade numbers suppliers competitive advantage also plays a role hence the resulting unforeseen higher number for exports.

 

[LegionnairE]

Yeah i did say that in the last part of the essay.... loool

Not really, as for the number of tourists, I do believe that Turkspey recorded the highest number of foreign tourists in 2019 ever recorded so I cant say that Tourism was stagnating tbh
And just a question, Iam one of those who believe in a sensible equality, why can Spain turn top class Ottoman's mosques into Churches while the Turks arent permitted to turn Hagia Sophia into a mosque
The double standard is just outright appaling and the fact that Turks arent pissed by the idea is making me surprised

Yeah the question is "tourists" from where lol. Africans coming here with tourist visas to find a way to emigrate (Because Erdog. lifted all visa requirements) isn't exactly a great source of income.

And what "Ottoman" mosques in Spain? lol I think you meant Umayyad caliphate.

It's their land, their business. I don't care.

 

[Lool]

Yeah the question is "tourists" from where lol. Africans coming here with tourist visas to find a way to emigrate (Because Erdog. lifted all visa requirements) isn't exactly a great source of income.

I will research to find out rn
Didnt check where the tourists are from tbh until now

And what "Ottoman" mosques in Spain? lol I think you meant Umayyad caliphate.

Yes Iam sorry
My mistake.... I wasnt concentrating as it is 4:45 am rn
Thx for correcting me @LegionnairE
I will fix it rn

 

[LegionnairE]

I will research to find out rn
Didnt check where the tourists are from tbh until now

I have many friends in tourism and you don't need to look up anything, I can tell you exactly what's happening.

In the last 10 years the rich European toruists completely went away, virtually no japanese or any country that we would consider developed. Only poor lower class Russians come here because it's cheap and Arabs, arabs everywhere. Those who come here with German passports are usually Turks, from France; mostly arabs and American passports the same story.

We attract poor tourists because Turkish lira has lost so much value that it's affordable.

 

[Saithan]

Everything except strategic important infrastructure projects should be financed after a sound feasibility study on a healthy business model. If a region experiences a boom of sorts you can start making feasibility study to keep an eye on it. This doesn't happen in a year or 10, except when you let in 5 mio. refugees.

Economy in steady recovery period: Minister - Latest News

The Turkish economy is in a steady recovery period, Treasury and Finance Minister Lütfi Elvan has told some members of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) group in parliament.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

 

[Constan]

Everything except strategic important infrastructure projects should be financed after a sound feasibility study on a healthy business model. If a region experiences a boom of sorts you can start making feasibility study to keep an eye on it. This doesn't happen in a year or 10, except when you let in 5 mio. refugees.

Economy in steady recovery period: Minister - Latest News

The Turkish economy is in a steady recovery period, Treasury and Finance Minister Lütfi Elvan has told some members of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) group in parliament.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

BUT I miss building mosques again and empty amusement parks

 

[Saithan]

BUT I miss building mosques again and empty amusement parks

shh... please we'll be jinxed.

 

[Saithan]

Countries must remove digital services taxes, US tells Turkey

U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai told Turkey’s trade minister it was critical that countries remove individual digital services taxes in...

www.dailysabah.com

Do like China, find the companies that imports and if they don't export or generate more income fine them to kingdom come. Force companies to have domestic production, even Apple. Do it subtly and deny any wrongdoings, just refer to inconsistencies and tax evasions etc.