TR Economy & Updates

[Sinan]

Turkey can start a new military campaign towards Syria and Iraq.
What kind of incentives and reforms can attract FDI or icrease credit rating in that case. LOL

So, you are measuring a country's economic power with the military campaings.


I think, it should measured with Hüloooo power. If in a country many people can shout as Hülooo, it's a economically powerfull country. Let's name it Hülooo index.

And let's put a lol at the end of the index, since we are hülocu.

 

[Saithan]

Not exactly, it was actually Meral Akşener who brought this up and forced government to take action.

Big Chains, like A101, BIM even selling cell phones time to time. They sell everything. This is killing all the other small shops.

For instance they sell TV, since A101 can order thousands of TVs, they can acquire it cheaper and sell cheaper than small shops.

I were unaware that stores like A101 was moving into electronics on such scale. But to be honest that is the future, Walmart like stores (without guns of course) I’m using Walmart as an example but we have similar stores here in Denmark. Bilka, Foetex, but we also have giant appliance stores too like power.dk, elgiganten.dk. Stores like Lidl (polish/German) sometimes have electronics, but that‘s mostly handy tools and such, welding, gardening, car stuff etc.

if A101 is like Danish Netto.dk then they’ll have few electronic stuff, water heater, egg boiler, rice cooker etc. seasonal stuff, handyman stuff.

 

[Sinan]

I were unaware that stores like A101 was moving into electronics on such scale. But to be honest that is the future, Walmart like stores (without guns of course) I’m using Walmart as an example but we have similar stores here in Denmark. Bilka, Foetex, but we also have giant appliance stores too like power.dk, elgiganten.dk. Stores like Lidl (polish/German) sometimes have electronics, but that‘s mostly handy tools and such, welding, gardening, car stuff etc.

if A101 is like Danish Netto.dk then they’ll have few electronic stuff, water heater, egg boiler, rice cooker etc. seasonal stuff, handyman stuff.

Think of A101 and BIM like a regular small market store. (Bildiğin süper-market) There are 1 of these in every neighbourhood. For example, once in a year they sell shoes,or power drill, or cell phones.

They don't sell these stuff regularly but like once in a while. However when they do this they sell these stuff very very cheap. Because they are simulitaneously selling these stuff in all of their stores. A101 has 8000 stores in Turkey. If they sell only 10 shoes per store. It makes 80.000 shoes.

Indivual shoe stores can't compete against that.
Because an indivual shoe store can order 100 shoes per model. Shoe price would be 100 liras.
But A101 orders 80000 shoes, so shoe price would be 90 liras.

These market chains are literally killing small stores.

A regular A101 store.

 

[Saithan]

Think of A101 and BIM like a regular small market store. (Bildiğin süper-market) There are 1 of these in every neighbourhood. For example, once in a year they sell shoes,or power drill, or cell phones.

They don't sell these stuff regularly but like once in a while. However when they do this they sell these stuff very very cheap. Because they are simulitaneously selling these stuff in all of their stores. A101 has 8000 stores in Turkey. If they sell only 10 shoes per store. It makes 80.000 shoes.

Indivual shoe stores can't compete against that.
Because an indivual shoe store can order 100 shoes per model. Shoe price would be 100 liras.
But A101 orders 80000 shoes, so shoe price would be 90 liras.

These market chains are literally killing small stores.

A regular A101 store.

I can understand your pov, but surely you can see that if Turkey achieved literacy rate of 70-90%, smaller stores would have to be specialized, and many of them would disappear replaced by stores I mentioned. Not to forget shoe store chains would hopefully pop up. The old man who has owned his shoe store for 30 years would no longer be able to compete, unless he turns to custom made shoes.

 

[Sinan]

I can understand your pov, but surely you can see that if Turkey achieved literacy rate of 70-90%, smaller stores would have to be specialized, and many of them would disappear replaced by stores I mentioned. Not to forget shoe store chains would hopefully pop up. The old man who has owned his shoe store for 30 years would no longer be able to compete, unless he turns to custom made shoes.

I get you but the stores you mention are present in the big cities. Not in all of the cities, forget the smaller towns.

Nobody is going to open an IKEA or Metro in Akçabat, Zile or Tavşanlı.

And it's not only shoe, like usb flashdisks, power drills, clothing, Televisions, literally everything that can fit in a store.

For example,

They are killing every other store out there.

 

[Turko]

I get you but the stores you mention are present in the big cities. Not in all of the cities, forget the smaller towns.

Nobody is going to open an IKEA or Metro in Akçabat, Zile or Tavşanlı.

And it's not only shoe, like usb flashdisks, power drills, clothing, Televisions, literally everything that can fit in a store.

For example,

View attachment 14420

They are killing every other store out there.

But they don't hide income and taxes. They opens new working places for unemployed people in small towns. They provide job conditions which are restricted by laws.

You can't find in those markets illegal workers without insurance.

 

[KKF 2.0]

I can understand your pov, but surely you can see that if Turkey achieved literacy rate of 70-90%, smaller stores would have to be specialized, and many of them would disappear replaced by stores I mentioned. Not to forget shoe store chains would hopefully pop up. The old man who has owned his shoe store for 30 years would no longer be able to compete, unless he turns to custom made shoes.

The government is basically destroying the economy of scale advantages of big chains.

This is unacceptable especially in a highly competitive market like Turkey with no distinctive monopolist controlling trade.

It shows you how little our people and the government know about broader economic issues. This decision will hurt Turkey and the Turkish consumer in the long term.

We're practically fighting against the structures that made the world's biggest retailers successful.

It's plain dumb.

 

[Ryder]

Turkey can start a new military campaign towards Syria and Iraq.
What kind of incentives and reforms can attract FDI or icrease credit rating in that case. LOL

War economy like our ancestors did. I would support it but its unreliable we cant constantly be engaged in wars just to fire up the economy those days are over.

 

[what]

If A101 is selling cheap TV, that in the interest of the consumer. I dont understand what's wrong with that. People want to be able to afford goods and if a supermarket chain is using the economies of scale to their and the consumers benefit thats a win win.

Protecting smaller shops because they dont move with the time, reminds me of the time Erdogan banned Uber because no one wanted to drive the shitty Taxis in Istanbul anymore.

 

[Zafer]

War economy like our ancestors did. I would support it but its unreliable we cant constantly be engaged in wars just to fire up the economy those days are over.

You don't understand.
While we have priorities like putting an end to terrorism we can not care too much about looking pretty to foreign investors.

 

[Turko]

If A101 is selling cheap TV, that in the interest of the consumer. I dont understand what's wrong with that. People want to be able to afford goods and if a supermarket chain is using the economies of scale to their and the consumers benefit thats a win win.

Protecting smaller shops because they dont move with the time, reminds me of the time Erdogan banned Uber because no one wanted to drive the shitty Taxis in Istanbul anymore.

I bought my humble phone with importer warranty in Migros instead of buying from some unreliable internet or street shops. İt was good bargain.

 

[Saithan]

I bought my humble phone with importer warranty in Migros instead of buying from some unreliable internet or street shops. İt was good bargain.

I think you misunderstood him, I think he also see it as a positive thing that Migros sells electronics.

tbh bakkal small kiosks are going extinc, even bakeries since stores like Migros goes bake off.

we may not be there yet, but it’s coming, so my cousin who’s only daughter studied did the right thing, his sons following in their dad’s footprint are firinci but they don’t have the same drive as their father who is an entrepreneur. Studying is the right choice.

 

[Ryder]

You don't understand.
While we have priorities like putting an end to terrorism we can not care too much about looking pretty to foreign investors.

Not about being pretty to be honest.

My mentality would bascially be f the world. You cant keep making humans fight constantly. War weariness can easily set in unless we build up supersoldiers.

 

[Saithan]

You don't understand.
While we have priorities like putting an end to terrorism we can not care too much about looking pretty to foreign investors.

You can crack down on terrorism and terror financing, but you don’t need to broadcast it to the world. Unfortunately Reis is fond of bragging, or just plain opening his mouth talking too much.

 

[Zafer]

Not about being pretty to be honest.

My mentality would bascially be f the world. You cant keep making humans fight constantly. War weariness can easily set in unless we build up supersoldiers.

We can optimize our procedures and keep our forces fresh as we gain more and more experience. This will help us get prepared for harder times. We haven't gone through an all out war in a century while others did. We need to up our game to gain the capacity to sustain a bigger volume of fights. Peace time is a good time to prepare. Talking is a warning before acting.

 

[Sinan]

But they don't hide income and taxes. They opens new working places for unemployed people in small towns. They provide job conditions which are restricted by laws.

You can't find in those markets illegal workers without insurance.

We can't know that. But that is generally too for big companies.

I didn't entirely decided what should be done in this sitiation. For example, yes, they are creating job opportunities but how much unemployement they are causing by making other stores out of business?

 

[Sinan]

If A101 is selling cheap TV, that in the interest of the consumer. I dont understand what's wrong with that. People want to be able to afford goods and if a supermarket chain is using the economies of scale to their and the consumers benefit thats a win win.

Protecting smaller shops because they dont move with the time, reminds me of the time Erdogan banned Uber because no one wanted to drive the shitty Taxis in Istanbul anymore.

I thought about that too... what they are doing is basically for the advantage of consumers.
But at the same time it's for the disadvantage for many other shops and their families.

 

[Sinan]

Let's look at this issue from another angle. Online shopping is booming.

Should we ban online shopping too for the benefit of esnaf?

 

[Nilgiri]

I thought about that too... what they are doing is basically for the advantage of consumers.
But at the same time it's for the disadvantage for many other shops and their families.

It boils down to labour elasticity in the end.

If labour elasticity is near perfect in the market (or very high), it means training/skills can easily transfer to another job.

Then it just becomes about supply side economics (i.e govt allowing market to dictate price and flow of capital as easily and cheaply as possible) to simply create as much supply (in job market) as possible....i.e cut red-tape and keep taxes as low as possible....to encourage investment and supply of jobs.

i.e there is no real issue by going for economy of scale as far as possible as jobs simply transfer and shift as needed. This is basis of large part of right wing and neo-liberal argument.

If labour elasticity is not good (or argued/perceived to not be good i.e inelastic) in various sectors or even all sectors (as in marxist fundamental argument/claim)....then for social good they need protection/insulation and even subsidy (at cost to price and efficiency but deemed worth it). Or the strategic sector argument etc....or capital sink cost argument too....i.e some impediment of significance that its better to keep the jobs somewhere.

Govts often tend to argue the (labour elasticity problem) more (since it fits with their ambition and scope within country more naturally in general...it maximises their intervention and political scope and legislation dynamics etc).

Corporates or supply-side reform govts argue on the former....

I personally tend to lean to the right-wing as the default. But if a good argument can be made for protectionism in a sector (esp with hard evidence) or if the subsidy/protection is fairly nominal for high return....I am all ears.

Problem is when we have extreme situation (Farming is often a notable one in lot of countries) of the argument that can pose significant issues to especially developing countries. When such countries really need to be growing the cake as far as possible as this point rather than getting into fighting over how to protect and share it at small size.

 

[what]

There's a middle way and I think companies such as getir are an example of that. Small stores still have their place in the economy, but maybe as part of a bigger plattform where you can order and the bakkal closest to you delivers the things directly in the neighbourhood. They are pretty much everywhere and very decentral.

They cant compete with the big stores on price but maybe they can on delivery.