TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Hasanrize]

Disappointing interview so far... Nothing we haven't seen or heard.

EDIT: 48 minutes in. Utter waste of time, incredibly disappointing, I'm upset etc.

What you were expecting from Mete Yarar seriously? He appeared after 15 July and made nothing except empty words to lick RTE's ass. He doesn't know a single shit about technology, let alone high-end arms tech. Just like being a good car driver doesn't make you good in car engineering, being a soldier doesn't make you understand arms tech.

Remember, we had a perpetual motion scandal named "Erke dönergeci." All guys in that scandal were retired Generals. Don't give so many credits to soldiers just because they are soldiers. Many of them are not even aware of the Rules of Thermodynamics.

İsmail Demir had a very big interview couple of weeks ago. How many new systems can be introduced after that interview? Max, we could see a picture from MMU's production of half-made aircraft. Even that was quite unlikely since there is evident huge secrecy. The best thing we could expect is an answer for TAEC, nothing more.

 

[MADDOG]

This is a waste of time! Instead of giving us info on projects, they're bringing up the Cyprus crisis. They're in a Meltem 3 hangar, talking about Cyprus... Literally...

 

[MADDOG]

What you were expecting from Mete Yarar seriously? He appeared after 15 July and made nothing except empty words to lick RTE's ass. He doesn't know a single shit about technology, let alone high-end arms tech. Just like being a good car driver doesn't make you good in car engineering, being a soldier doesn't make you understand arms tech.

Remember, we had a perpetual motion scandal named "Erke dönergeci." All guys in that scandal were retired Generals. Don't give so many credits to soldiers just because they are soldiers. Many of them are not even aware of the Rules of Thermodynamics.

İsmail Demir had a very big interview couple of weeks ago. How many new systems can be introduced after that interview? Max, we could see a picture from MMU's production of half-made aircraft. Even that was quite unlikely since there is evident huge secrecy. The best thing we could expect is an answer for TAEC, nothing more.

Oh I was expecting nothing from him. Hate the guy!

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Ismail Demir: "The range of the Gökdoğan is around 100km or even much more. Let's not go into details."

 

[Afif]

Mr Ismail Demir: "The range of the Gökdoğan is around 100km or even much more. Let's not go into details."

If it was the case then why tubitak sage ceo said multiple times that, the gokdogan will have 100 km range at phase two?

 

[Holikarbon]

Every project should be revealed in all its details.

Because people here want it that way....

 

[MADDOG]

what a impatient people, like they are obligated to show people something. The program is informative program. A lot of said things...

They don't allow pictures, when the time comes they will share it.

With all due respect, I'm not being impatient here. It's quite the opposite. Neither am I undermining TAI's efforts as some of you think. In fact, this isn't about TAI at all. Seems like I wasn't able to get my point across. If you're at TAI's facilities, showcase TAI. If your program is about İsmail Demir talking about the F-35 you may as well do it in a studio. As you can clearly see, they've rarely touched on the F-16 Özgür, Hürjet and the MMU. I've waited 7 hours... That's a big number. This is why my complaint goes to Mete Yarar (once again), for creating such hype around pretty much nothing. Apart from that it was a pretty decent interview. I like İsmail Demir as a person, it was nice to see him again. Gave good info regarding certain topics. But my point still stands, and I don't think my opinion will change!

 

[Manomed]

With all due respect, I'm not being impatient here. It's quite the opposite. Neither am I undermining TAI's efforts as some of you think. In fact, this isn't about TAI at all. Seems like I wasn't able to get my point across. If you're at TAI's facilities, showcase TAI. If your program is about İsmail Demir talking about the F-35 you may as well do it in a studio. As you can clearly see, they've rarely touched on the F-16 Özgür, Hürjet and the MMU. I've waited 7 hours... That's a big number. This is why my complaint goes to Mete Yarar (once again), for creating such hype around pretty much nothing. Apart from that it was a pretty decent interview. I like İsmail Demir as a person, it was nice to see him again. Gave good info regarding certain topics. But my point still stands, and I don't think my opinion will change!

that mete yarar guy works on paycheck what do you expect?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Game-changing fighter systems whose technology can be applied to many other platforms. When the development of these systems is completed, the Turkish air force will take its place among the best in its class.

• Aselsan Murad GAN AESA radar with 1000+TRM
• Aselsan Yildirim DIRCM
• Aselsan FEWS Aircrafts EWCM
• Aselsan AESA GAN HEMT and MMIC EW sensors for ultra wide band and high power jamming missions (Koral-2, Ilgar-2, Hava-SOJ, HEWS-2, FEWS)
• Tubitak ES/EA Aircraft electronic warfare Pods, Aselsan MEHPoD EW Pod, SAR Pod
• Aselsan Aselpod-I/II E/O Pods
• Aselsan BURFIS (Integrated RF system for TFX - 360 degree EW sensors + 360 degree AESA radars)
• Aselsan BEOS (Integrated E/O) + IRST system for MMU
• Aselsan HMCS helmet
• TRMotor - APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) and ATSS (Air turbine start system) for TFX
• TEI-TRMotor - 35000lb turbofan for TFX
• Tübitak Bozdoğan solid fuel WVR 25+km
• Tubitak Gokdoğan-I/II solid fuel BVR 100+km
• Tübitak Gokhan Ramjet BVR missile
• Roketsan Akbaba Ramjet anti-radiation active/passive missile
• SOM-B1/2, C1/2, J, ER

Air superiority and ground suppression aircrafts that will carry the sensors/missiles mentioned above

• TUSAŞ TFX MMU
• TUSAŞ Hürjet Light combat aircraft
• TUSAŞ TISU stealth combat drone
• TUSAŞ Hürkuş-II Armed Turboprop
• TUSAŞ New ANKA/AKSUNGURs
• Baykar Akinci-B/C Armed heavy drones
• Baykar MIUS Block-2/3 KizilElma fighter drone
• IHA-Radar and IHA-SOJ projects
• Hava-SOJ jammer aircrafts

By 2030, probably all these platforms will be in the sky and considering the deterrence they will create, our country will have an aviation industry and mature product range that can compete with the biggest boys of the West in all scale. Probably, West will go to embargo route again by making different politic excuses but I don't think any effort will have any effect after this time.

 

[Radonsider]

Game-changing fighter systems whose technology can be applied to many other platforms. When the development of these systems is completed, the Turkish air force will take its place among the best in its class.

• Aselsan Murad GAN AESA radar with 1000+TRM
• Aselsan Yildirim DIRCM
• Aselsan FEWS Aircrafts EWCM
• Aselsan AESA GAN HEMT and MMIC EW sensors for ultra wide band and high power jamming missions (Koral-2, Ilgar-2, Hava-SOJ, HEWS-2, FEWS)
• Tubitak ES/EA Aircraft electronic warfare Pods, Aselsan MEHPoD EW Pod, SAR Pod
• Aselsan Aselpod-I/II E/O Pods
• Aselsan BURFIS (Integrated RF system for TFX - 360 degree EW sensors + 360 degree AESA radars)
• Aselsan BEOS (Integrated E/O + IRST system for TFX)
• Aselsan HMCS helmet
• TRMotor - APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) and ATSS (Air turbine start system) for TFX
• TEI-TRMotor - 35000lb turbofan for TFX
• Tübitak Bozdoğan solid fuel WVR 25+km
• Tubitak Gokdoğan-I/II solid fuel BVR 100+km
• Tübitak Gokhan Ramjet BVR missile
• Roketsan Akbaba Ramjet anti-radiation active/passive missile
• SOM-B1/2, C1/2, J, ER

Air superiority and ground suppression aircrafts that will carry the sensors/missiles mentioned above

• TUSAŞ TFX MMU
• TUSAŞ Hürjet Light combat aircraft
• TUSAŞ TISU stealth combat drone
• TUSAŞ Hürkuş-II Armed Turboprop
• TUSAŞ New ANKA/AKSUNGURs
• Baykar Akinci-B/C Armed heavy drones
• Baykar MIUS Block-2/3 KizilElma fighter drone
• IHA-Radar and IHA-SOJ projects
• Hava-SOJ jammer aircrafts

By 2030, probably all these platforms will be in the sky and considering the deterrence they will create, our country will have an aviation industry and mature product range that can compete with the biggest boys of the West in all scale. Probably, West will go to embargo route again by making different politic excuses but I don't think any effort will have any effect after this time.

Very good post but I have a question, where did you get 1000 T/R module count for MURAD, and do you know the type of the modules?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Very good post but I have a question, where did you get 1000 T/R module count for MURAD, and do you know the type of the modules?

APG-83 has GaAs modules and due to the capability of the cooling system, it has been reflected in some reports that the embedded software allows the radar to work up to a certain energy load and measures are taken to prevent it from over-heating up. Software limitation is a factor that limits the performance of the radar so that it doesnt burn from high heat or lose performance. This radar has over 1000 GaAs TRMs.

On thr other hand, It was stated in the official statements for Murad radar developed for Turkish F16s that it will be "better" than the APG-83. In order to perform "better", some of its features must be superior. The superior points will be as follows, according to my assessment.

Murad AESA radar is developed with GAN, the most advanced semi-conductor used in AESA modules at present and according to my guess, the number of TRMs will be equivalent to APG-83. Since the cooling system is completely redesigned according to the cooling needs of the domestic AB MicroNano modules, domestic high performance GAN modules will be cooled more effectively with no need of strict software limitation. By this way, Murad will perform better depending on the cooling systems because these transistors can operate under higher voltage loads than GaAs modules in normal conditions.

Besides, Aselsan delivered the first GaN AESA radar- STR to the army. They will deliver the second AESA radar with GAN transistor, ErALp with a range of 500+ km, this year. Murad will not be the first radar developed with this technology but I think that Aselsan pays more attention to this cooling issue at present, since the need for more intensive cooling of the modules in the narrow space arises. We will see the first version of Murad within this year and the details will take shape.

 

[Radonsider]

APG-83 has GaAs modules and due to the capability of the cooling system, it has been reflected in some reports that the embedded software allows the radar to work up to a certain energy load and measures are taken to prevent it from over-heating up. Software limitation is a factor that limits the performance of the radar so that it doesnt burn from high heat or lose performance. This radar has over 1000 GaAs TRMs.

On thr other hand, It was stated in the official statements for Murad radar developed for Turkish F16s that it will be "better" than the APG-83. In order to perform "better", some of its features must be superior. The superior points will be as follows, according to my assessment.

Murad AESA radar is developed with GAN, the most advanced semi-conductor used in AESA modules at present and according to my guess, the number of TRMs will be equivalent to APG-83. Since the cooling system is completely redesigned according to the cooling needs of the domestic AB MicroNano modules, domestic high performance GAN modules will be cooled more effectively with no need of strict software limitation. By this way, Murad will perform better depending on the cooling systems because these transistors can operate under higher voltage loads than GaAs modules in normal conditions.

Besides, Aselsan delivered the first GaN AESA radar- STR to the army. They will deliver the second AESA radar with GAN transistor, ErALp with a range of 500+ km, this year. Murad will not be the first radar developed with this technology but I think that Aselsan pays more attention to this cooling issue at present, since the need for more intensive cooling of the modules in the narrow space arises. We will see the first version of Murad within this year and the details will take shape.

Makes sense

 

[Radonsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558449249427267586

Interesting post about how AESA and A2A missiles on Hürjet would somehow kickstart more embargos on Turkey.

and @barracudavol1 pointing out that I.D. Doing political propoganda and not having a realistic view on things.

If we omit the political parts. Would turning Hürjet into a fully capable fighter jet with AESA+A2A missiles result in tighter sanctions ?

And why?

Keep in mind that not only Ismail Demir said that, but Anil Şahin in a recent Twitter Space, I would trust Anil Şahin as he is the one with all that contacts inside, he probably (certainly) knows better than anyone else especially in this topic

 

[Yasar_TR]

APG-83 has GaAs modules and due to the capability of the cooling system, it has been reflected in some reports that the embedded software allows the radar to work up to a certain energy load and measures are taken to prevent it from over-heating up. Software limitation is a factor that limits the performance of the radar so that it doesnt burn from high heat or lose performance. This radar has over 1000 GaAs TRMs.

On thr other hand, It was stated in the official statements for Murad radar developed for Turkish F16s that it will be "better" than the APG-83. In order to perform "better", some of its features must be superior. The superior points will be as follows, according to my assessment.

Murad AESA radar is developed with GAN, the most advanced semi-conductor used in AESA modules at present and according to my guess, the number of TRMs will be equivalent to APG-83. Since the cooling system is completely redesigned according to the cooling needs of the domestic AB MicroNano modules, domestic high performance GAN modules will be cooled more effectively with no need of strict software limitation. By this way, Murad will perform better depending on the cooling systems because these transistors can operate under higher voltage loads than GaAs modules in normal conditions.

Besides, Aselsan delivered the first GaN AESA radar- STR to the army. They will deliver the second AESA radar with GAN transistor, ErALp with a range of 500+ km, this year. Murad will not be the first radar developed with this technology but I think that Aselsan pays more attention to this cooling issue at present, since the need for more intensive cooling of the modules in the narrow space arises. We will see the first version of Murad within this year and the details will take shape.

Good explanation! Very informative!
But for a quick answer to the question of “how do you know the number of modules” question; I would say , counting them is a good way.
They can be counted in a similar way to how the modules on the other 4 pictures have been counted. Infact someone had found that Aselsan’s mock up showed more T/R modules than 1000.

Aselsan Aesa radar

 

[Yasar_TR]

An interesting study on various currently in use Aesa radars and their respective targeting distances according to varying RCS values.
For example the APG77 Aesa radar of F22-Raptor can target a plane with an RCS value of 0.0001m2 at a distance of 20km.
Yet a Rafale RB-2 Aesa radar can only target this plane between 11-13 km distance.

We know that the Aselsan’s Aesa radar will have a good number more than 1000 Transmit-And-Receive modules.
Considering the fact that it will also use GaN based modules which are more efficient and have longer operating ranges, it all comes down to to how good an algorithm they use to decipher the information of the modules sent and received. If they have done as good a job as we all hope they have, then our Aesa should be superior to apg83 of v70 and most definitely better than RB2 of Rafale.
Since the nose of TFX will accommodate a bigger diameter radar, it’s Aesa radar with GaN technology should be even better.

 

[NitricAcid]

Probably, after the start of the tests of the National AESA Radar (F-16) prototype, the tests will continue until at least 2025.

The AESA Radar that is wanted to be revealed is quite "Ambitious" and it is of great importance for the National Combat Aircraft. It will undergo a program of intensive testing and certification.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558401850491142146

 

[Radonsider]

Probably, after the start of the tests of the National AESA Radar (F-16) prototype, the tests will continue until at least 2025.

The AESA Radar that is wanted to be revealed is quite "Ambitious" and it is of great importance for the National Combat Aircraft. It will undergo a program of intensive testing and certification.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558401850491142146

Not so surprising

 

[Afif]

Game-changing fighter systems whose technology can be applied to many other platforms. When the development of these systems is completed, the Turkish air force will take its place among the best in its class.

• Aselsan Murad GAN AESA radar with 1000+TRM
• Aselsan Yildirim DIRCM
• Aselsan FEWS Aircrafts EWCM
• Aselsan AESA GAN HEMT and MMIC EW sensors for ultra wide band and high power jamming missions (Koral-2, Ilgar-2, Hava-SOJ, HEWS-2, FEWS)
• Tubitak ES/EA Aircraft electronic warfare Pods, Aselsan MEHPoD EW Pod, SAR Pod
• Aselsan Aselpod-I/II E/O Pods
• Aselsan BURFIS (Integrated RF system for TFX - 360 degree EW sensors + 360 degree AESA radars)
• Aselsan BEOS (Integrated E/O + IRST system for TFX)
• Aselsan HMCS helmet
• TRMotor - APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) and ATSS (Air turbine start system) for TFX
• TEI-TRMotor - 35000lb turbofan for TFX
• Tübitak Bozdoğan solid fuel WVR 25+km
• Tubitak Gokdoğan-I/II solid fuel BVR 100+km
• Tübitak Gokhan Ramjet BVR missile
• Roketsan Akbaba Ramjet anti-radiation active/passive missile
• SOM-B1/2, C1/2, J, ER

Air superiority and ground suppression aircrafts that will carry the sensors/missiles mentioned above

• TUSAŞ TFX MMU
• TUSAŞ Hürjet Light combat aircraft
• TUSAŞ TISU stealth combat drone
• TUSAŞ Hürkuş-II Armed Turboprop
• TUSAŞ New ANKA/AKSUNGURs
• Baykar Akinci-B/C Armed heavy drones
• Baykar MIUS Block-2/3 KizilElma fighter drone
• IHA-Radar and IHA-SOJ projects
• Hava-SOJ jammer aircrafts

By 2030, probably all these platforms will be in the sky and considering the deterrence they will create, our country will have an aviation industry and mature product range that can compete with the biggest boys of the West in all scale. Probably, West will go to embargo route again by making different politic excuses but I don't think any effort will have any effect after this time.

And hopefully from 2030s to 2040s turkish arms export will exceed the french export size. Imagine if turkey can sell 100 150 tfx to its strategic and sub strategic allies! it will pay off all the development cost and make it look like not even a single Penny ever been spended and yet there is that beautiful jet, just suddenly dominating the sky!

 

[Merzifonlu]

They're currently lobbying to get the production numbers back into their original state. If that will ever materialize, we will see.

It's not work.

The original planning included the production of approximately 600 T-70s and also the maintenance of Sikorsky S-70 helicopters on a global scale at the center to be established in Turkiye. They moved that S-70 global maintenance center to Poland.

In other words, they will not change their minds in the short&middle term. Therefore, if it were me, I would give my full attention to the navalize domestic utility helicopter.

 

[MADDOG]

It's not work.

The original planning included the production of approximately 600 T-70s and also the maintenance of Sikorsky S-70 helicopters on a global scale at the center to be established in Turkiye. They moved that S-70 global maintenance center to Poland.

In other words, they will not change their minds in the short&middle term. Therefore, if it were me, I would give my full attention to the navalize domestic utility helicopter.

I agree. But we will see.