TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Ryder]

As much people question Russian and Chinese military equipment many nations will still buy it.

Because American and European are not just expensive but come with strings attached.

Not to say Chinese and Russians dont attach strings but its much worse with American and European. Americans and Europeans can easily put a contract where it says you cant use it for this and that. Basically a Ferrari not being used but stuck in the garage.

Then comes sanctions and embargoes. Venezuela's F16s are rotting away and Iran is cannbalising its F14s just to keep F14s operational.

 

[LIbyan Soldier]

As much people question Russian and Chinese military equipment many nations will still buy it.

Because American and European are not just expensive but come with strings attached.

Not to say Chinese and Russians dont attach strings but its much worse with American and European. Americans and Europeans can easily put a contract where it says you cant use it for this and that. Basically a Ferrari not being used but stuck in the garage.

Then comes sanctions and embargoes. Venezuela's F16s are rotting away and Iran is cannbalising its F14s just to keep F14s operational.

I can't believe you comparing the Chinese equipments to the russian pieces of crap. China far surpassed Russia in the quality of weapons

 

[LIbyan Soldier]

Maybe i make mistake, in my brain J31,Fc31 and J35 are the same.

J-31 also known as fc-31

The j-35 i believe it's navy version of j-31 to work on aircraft carrier

 

[LIbyan Soldier]

As much people question Russian and Chinese military equipment many nations will still buy it.

Because American and European are not just expensive but come with strings attached.

Not to say Chinese and Russians dont attach strings but its much worse with American and European. Americans and Europeans can easily put a contract where it says you cant use it for this and that. Basically a Ferrari not being used but stuck in the garage.

Then comes sanctions and embargoes. Venezuela's F16s are rotting away and Iran is cannbalising its F14s just to keep F14s operational.

I can't believe you comparing the Chinese equipments to the russian pieces of crap. China far surpassed Russia in the quality of weapons

For me, China is equal to Turkey in the military industry, and it may also be better in matters of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, artillery and long-range launchers. And I think that Turkey got some technology from China like Bora missile and T-300 Kasırga

 

[Ryder]

I can't believe you comparing the Chinese equipments to the russian pieces of crap. China far surpassed Russia in the quality of weapons

Chinese havent proved themselves at all.

Right now its all questionable.

 

[Bürküt]

And I think that Turkey got some technology from China like Bora missile and T-300 Kasırga

The story of Türkiye's Himars equivalent TRLG122-230-300 series artillery rockets is the fruit of the cooperation with China in the end of the 90's.It must be called Toros project.Of course we seperated the paths then.

 

[Isbara]

The story of Türkiye's Himars equivalent TRLG122-230-300 series artillery rockets is the fruit of the cooperation with China in the end of the 90's.It must be called Toros project.Of course we seperated the paths then.

Toros has nothing to do with China. It was a complete Sage project from scratch. The goal was to produce capable rockets for our M230 Mlrs systems after facing an ambargo by US goverment during middle 90's.
Our cooperation with China begins with Kasırga missiles which is originally Chinese WS-1. And the project was called "Project K".

 

[Bürküt]

Our cooperation with China begins with Kasırga missiles which is originally Chinese WS-1. And the project was called "Project K".

For some reason, I remember the unguided Sakarya MLRS.

 

[neosinan]

For me, China is equal to Turkey in the military industry, and it may also be better in matters of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, artillery and long-range launchers. And I think that Turkey got some technology from China like Bora missile and T-300 Kasırga

You can't generalize whole MIC like that. PRC is well ahead of us in many categories especially in Long range Missile and related technologies. But They lack critical access to NATO know-how, this render all of their avionics well behind Turkey. Until France's idiotic move that allowed Safran's joint venture in China, They were well behind of Aviation Metallurgy as well. It is clear that They are getting much needed experience from Safran. but I don't think it is easy to comment on their engine efforts without seeing the fruits of both side.

Even If We dont like to admit it, Having access to fundamental research labs that have military applications helps us and Even though some Western countries limit our access to many military part and system, We have access many machinery and more importantly consultancy in these field which China is Totally unable to access. We literally have unlimited access to British aviation IP thanks to a law from their parliament. To sum up, There is no easy answer for a question like that. Both side has their strong and weak points. And Both side is trying to develop their own platforms with the know how they already have, they can access and the research they do.

 

[Sanchez]

And to add, do correct me if i'm wrong but Toros and Sakarya/Mızrak programs are also unrelated. Sakarya was Roketsan's own undertaking, in which I believed they used knowhow they got from the captured Iranian Type-63(T-107) clone which they got from an interned ship.

 

[TsumugiShirogane]

China won't sell cutting edge stealth aircraft to a current day Pakistan that imprisons even her own president by a simple order of the yankees. That is same as giving China's top-secrets to America.

On the other hand Türkiye wouldn't mind selling F-35 level stealth KAAN to all Muslim countries and we are even encouraging it actively.

So Türkiye and KAAN is the only realistic chance of any Muslim countries ever getting a stealth 5th gen fighter. Even if they somehow get something on paper "5-6th gen" I wouldn't trust it 1%. America spent several months to convert pseudo stealthy made for Turks fake looking "F-35" to actually stealthy F-35.

KAAN's stealth isn't on par with F-35. Considering the larger size and no diverterless inlets. Plus giving KAAN to Pakistan or some other third world countries means Greece will just slip a few euros to some Pakistani air force commander and the next day knows about its RCS angles, radars, avionics, and all the other classified specs. So, when ALL the third world countries have "stealth" fighters, NOBODY has "stealth" fighters.

 

[Ryder]

Toros has nothing to do with China. It was a complete Sage project from scratch. The goal was to produce capable rockets for our M230 Mlrs systems after facing an ambargo by US goverment during middle 90's.
Our cooperation with China begins with Kasırga missiles which is originally Chinese WS-1. And the project was called "Project K".

Turkiye even faced embargoes in the 90s by the USA.

Damn!! People here are dreaming if Turkiye is going to get F35s.

 

[Spitfire9]

J35 is the downgraded jet just like JT17 not the edge stealth aircraft j20

After around 2035 we will selling KAAN but 2030 too early even without any delay(hope no delay like Atlay and TF2000)

Before that Pakistan needs jet to replace their current fleet.

What about Pakistan doing a lease deal (like SAAB has with Czech Republic and Hungary for Gripen) for 10 years for a Chinese 5G aircraft? That would give time for Kaan's systems and new engine to be more fully developed before Pakistan started receiving deliveries from a Pakistan assembly plant (let's say 2035 onwards). I presume that TAI would be interested in Pakistan joining the programme and assembling the aircraft.

 

[karakova]

KAAN's stealth isn't on par with F-35. Considering the larger size and no diverterless inlets

Thats F-22...

 

[Sanchez]

Chadians deployed a Hürkuş and two possibly armed Cessna Caravans to the desert. Caravans were received for ISR missions originally. Bet you can easily add Cirits tho.
Mama look, I'm a bush plane now! Afrikakorps vibes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694339895232270731

 

[AWP]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696907121990767064

 

[B_A]

The sale of F-16 fighter jets to Türkiye is not intertwined with Sweden's membership in NATO, but some Congress members draw a connection between the two issues, the U.S. State Department said Monday.

"We do not believe that they are linked or should be linked," said State Department Spokesman Matthew Miller at a press briefing, in response to a question by an Anadolu Agency (AA) reporter about the current status of the potential sale.

Reiterating the previous statements from the Biden administration, Miller said Washington made clear to the Turkish government that the sale of F-16s has to be approved by the U.S. Congress.

"And there are members of Congress who believe that the two issues are closely tied together," he said. "So while we do not believe that they're linked, we're not the only actor in this process. We made that clear directly to Turkish officials."

Miller did not provide an update on a timeline.

The spokesman reiterated the U.S. position on Sweden's accession, saying it "should be approved as soon as possible," adding that the U.S. appreciates President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's support for it.

Ankara requested F-16 fighter jets and modernization kits from Washington in October 2021, which is awaiting a green light from the U.S. Congress. The $6 billion deal would include the sale of 40 jets as well as modernization kits for 79 warplanes already in the Turkish Air Force’s inventory.

Although the Biden administration repeatedly said it wants to move forward with the sale of F-16 jets to Türkiye, key lawmakers on Capitol Hill have vowed to nix the deal over several demands, including making the purchase contingent on Ankara's approval of Sweden's NATO membership bid.

Officials from the Biden administration, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken, previously said the Biden administration does not link the two issues.

However, President Erdoğan on Sunday said after a brief chat with U.S. President Joe Biden on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in New Delhi that the U.S. makes such a connection, and it "upsets” Ankara.

"We had a quick word with Biden. We also discussed the F-16 issue," Erdoğan said at a news conference after the G-20 summit in India, "Unfortunately, friends keep bringing Sweden up when it comes to the F-16 issue. Such an approach seriously upsets us."





We dont need Those F-16 right now.Just use those money on Hurjet Fighter version and Kaan

 

[boredaf]

We dont need Those F-16 right now.

We do need them. Or some other jet to help our aging air force.

Hürjet is not a direct replacement for F-16, it's payload is much lighter than an F-16, almost 1/3, and it's light attack variant is even further away than its original role, a trainer. Kaan is even worse in that regard because we don't even have an engine capable of lifting it off the ground yet, let alone one with actual 5th generation characteristics. It doesn't matter how much money we throw at these, and judging by the way we are looking for partners for Kaan it looks like we don't have enough to throw at it by ourselves. Even if everything goes perfectly both with engines and Kaan itself, we are 10-15 years away from having Kaan in meaningful numbers. And that is a big if, engine development is one of the hardest feats of engineering around.

Our air force is falling behind, we need reinforcements, whether it is F-16s or some other jet. There is no need to lie to ourselves like this, in fact, it is one of the most dangerous things we can do. And before someone bring KE again, it hasn't even fired any munition yet, in its current configuration it is slower than Mach 1 and doesn't even have an AESA radar yet.

 

[B_A]

We do need them. Or some other jet to help our aging air force.

Hürjet is not a direct replacement for F-16, it's payload is much lighter than an F-16, almost 1/3, and it's light attack variant is even further away than its original role, a trainer. Kaan is even worse in that regard because we don't even have an engine capable of lifting it off the ground yet, let alone one with actual 5th generation characteristics. It doesn't matter how much money we throw at these, and judging by the way we are looking for partners for Kaan it looks like we don't have enough to throw at it by ourselves. Even if everything goes perfectly both with engines and Kaan itself, we are 10-15 years away from having Kaan in meaningful numbers. And that is a big if, engine development is one of the hardest feats of engineering around.

Our air force is falling behind, we need reinforcements, whether it is F-16s or some other jet. There is no need to lie to ourselves like this, in fact, it is one of the most dangerous things we can do. And before someone bring KE again, it hasn't even fired any munition yet, in its current configuration it is slower than Mach 1 and doesn't even have an AESA radar yet.

We need them now but even we signed the contact those F-16 will not come within years!

Even Taiwanese wait 4 years after signed until the first jet come.

Turkiye will wait for many many year,maybe 10 years or those F-16V will never come.

I wonder that why you think we can buy those F-16 like go to supermarket and bring them back.



F-16V is like the EU VISA FREE to TURKIYE,said come in 2016 but never never come.

 

[Zafer]

KE and Anka-3 are coming online in less than a couple of years. When equipped with the TF6K and EASA radar the enemy will not even know what capability we have. We will also go ahead and upgrade our own F16. So we keep our money in our pockets and do not feed it to the bullies. Critical 4 months ahead, once we make the TF6K nicely and fly Kaan first time, then we are counting down 5 years to become an independent military power with the TF35K coming online.