TR Federal State

[Tonyukuk]

Federation of Turkic states would be good.

But if you're suggesting a federation that splits Türkiye into different states then I say hell no. Imperialist forces tried that 100 years ago and Atatürk kicked their asses.

I think you're making pro-HÜDAPAR propaganda ahead of the election. I actually warned everyone that AKP would use autonomy to win elections, and it looks like some of their propagandists are already spreading this nonsense.

 

[Afif]

24 existing states
population 400.000.000 > %5,15 of the World
income 6.237.152 > %4,92 of the World

View attachment 54953

What you want to imply? I am curious.

 

[Heartbang]

In Turkey one man just does anything and everything without control or expertise. Only he decides, from Ankara. Only the centralized government.

What you yearn for is not a federal state. and yet you talk about it under a thread called "Federal State"
Either you are misguided or your intentions are malevolent. And based on the timing I am leaning towards latter.

 

[Zafer]

What you want to imply? I am curious.

The USA, The EU, The Russian Federation, PR China are all unions. So can a federation of the marked states be.

 

[Afif]

The USA, The EU, The Russian Federation, PR China are all unions. So can a federation of the marked states be.

Bro, Syria, Libya and Egypt has very different identity. So it is not practical.

 

[Zafer]

Bro, Syria, Libya and Egypt has very different identity. So it is not practical.

Not all that different. Even Greece and Israel are possible.
A region that exports gas to Europe.
Erdoğan and Asad were very close before the civil war broke out.

 

[Manomed The Second]

We conquered this land and we have the majority. We are not ottomans I rather die than give up land to minorities that didn't even fought for it.

People like you should be ashamed of themself

 

[Huelague]

I really think we should consider a federation.

Look at the example of federal states:

1.- USA
2.- Germany
3.- Canada
4.- Russia
5.- Switserland
6.- Brasil
7.- India
8.- Belgium

Much more efficient governing. Greater economy. No turmoil or internal problems. Strong statehood.

No central body with all the burden at the shoulders and slow reaction, but a decentralised government of states with little autonomy

Look the USA. Every state has his:

- own flag
- own police
- own budget
- own governor
- own laws

Some states have a death penalty and some not. Some states kicks migrants out and some not. The central government doesnt interfere in this.

The only things what are central are:

1.- Federal Agencies (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Prisons, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Financing Bank etc)

2.- National Agencies (National Security Agency [NSA], NASA, National Guard etc)

3.- Central Agencies (CENTCOM, CIA, Capitol Police, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention etc)

4.- Language (English)

5.- Valuta (Dollar)

6.- National Anthem

7.- The Constitution

8. Flag (Stars & Stripes)

There is no country in the world with a more efficient democracy, more efficient economy and more efficient politics than the USA (look at their responses to disasters for example).

They have almost 1000 different agencies and everyone is more effective than the other, because its a federal system.

A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov

Get contact information for U.S. federal government agencies, departments, instrumentalities, and government-sponsored enterprises. Find websites, email, phone numbers, addresses, and more.

www.usa.gov

Bad idea with separate kurds and enemies around us. Otherwise a good idea.

 

[CAN_TR]

Only a HDP or HÜDAPAR cake would make such demands...

Guys don't forget no matter if they are Islamist or Leftist, if they fought in the past and don't like each other, they always agree on especially one thing... it sounds like kabristan.

If you don't like the unitary Turkish state goverend from Ankara, then you can take your stuff and move back to Iran from where the Ottomans imported your ancestors. People with no cultural/historical heritage in those regions of the Turkish Republic are not in the position to demand a Federal state.

 

[Ravenman]

Federation of Turkic states would be good.

But if you're suggesting a federation that splits Türkiye into different states then I say hell no. Imperialist forces tried that 100 years ago and Atatürk kicked their asses.

I think you're making pro-HÜDAPAR propaganda ahead of the election. I actually warned everyone that AKP would use autonomy to win elections, and it looks like some of their propagandists are already spreading this nonsense.

No, i supported a Federation long time ago. I dont even know HÜDAPAR's program.

A federation makes your country stronger and doesnt implie secession or seperatism like you mention.

Federations are the strongest countries (USA, Russia, India, Switserland, Brasil).

 

[CAN_TR]

No, i supported a Federation long time ago. I dont even know HÜDAPAR's program.

A federation makes your country stronger and doesnt implie secession or seperatism like you mention.

Federations are the strongest countries (USA, Russia, India, Switserland, Brasil).

Because there are no seperatists in Switzerland or USA i will not make comments about the others...

In a country were budget from a political party flows to mountain apes you can't demand a federal state.

 

[Ravenman]

Only a HDP or HÜDAPAR cake would make such demands...

Guys don't forget no matter if they are Islamist or Leftist, if they fought in the past and don't like each other, they always agree on especially one thing... it sounds like kabristan.

If you don't like the unitary Turkish state goverend from Ankara, then you can take your stuff and move back to Iran from where the Ottomans imported your ancestors. People with no cultural/historical heritage in those regions of the Turkish Republic are not in the position to demand a Federal state.

You guys really are suspicious. Germany is a federation, their system is lightyears ahead.

And by the way, i have a cultural and historical heritage in Anatolia. Please stop with these slurs.

 

[Manomed The Second]

You guys really are suspicious. Germany is a federation, their system is lightyears ahead.

And by the way, i have a cultural and historical heritage in Anatolia. Please stop with these slurs.

You are iranic your heritage has nothing to do with Anatolia

 

[CAN_TR]

Maybe because all federal state have one thing in common... being of German origin and having no seperatism. Federal state with seperatists Iranics with backward feudal like social structures is NOT possible and would lead to conflict like in the past.

And no Kurds/Zaza people have neither cultural nor historical heritage in Anatolia, they are the result of Ottoman forcing Kizilbas Turkmens out of South-East and importing Sunni Iranics from the Safavid dominated areas. After WW1 Kurds/Zaza filled the vacuum of Armenians and Assyrians, that's how they spread even more across the South-East.

 

[Ravenman]

And your ancestors are coming from Mongolia (if you are lucky) and if you havent any luck they are from Greece because millions of Greeks and Armenians in West-Turkey didnt leave after the war and benefited from the Surname-Law.

So in both cases you guys have no heritage in Anatolia or even the Middle East.

You wanna go further back in history? Dont play the pseudo-historian, nobody can judge another where he or she comes from or belongs to.

 

[Manomed The Second]

And your ancestors are coming from Mongolia (if you are lucky) and if you havent any luck they are from Greece because millions of Greeks and Armenians in West-Turkey didnt leave after the war and benefited from the Surname-Law.

So in both cases you guys have no heritage in Anatolia or even the Middle East.

You wanna go further back in history? Dont play the pseudo-historian, nobody can judge another where he or she comes from or belongs to.

Most of the greeks were sent back to mainland also you are iranic imported from İran by ottoman and we are Turkmens who settled here.

Turkmens mostly originated from aral sea area and not mongolia this shows that you don't even know slightest history about oghuz turks.

Turkmens have been living here in anatolia more than you iranic came in so don't try to teach us history.

Also there were no greeks living in central anatolia and other parts If you are trying to accuse of someone being greek tough luck there were Indo europeans and scythians living here not greek population.

 

[CAN_TR]

I don't play the historian all facts buddy. I can name you Turkish cultural/historical heritage in the Middle East, North Africa, Crimea and Balkans up to Hungary... from cuisine, music, architecture to states do you deny that? LOL.

Where Oghuz Turks actually originate from...

btw. i'm Cepni if you don't know what this means Google Amca will help you.

 

[Nilgiri]

Even when Kevin Spacey is the President of the mightiest nation of the world, he sometimes cant intervene in the internal affairs of states or dictate the different federal agencies. You also see the democratic clashes between different governing bodies with different jurisdictions.

It has nothing to do with the US being a Federal republic.

It has far more to do with the separation of powers among the 3 branches of govt: Executive, Legislative, Judicial

...and how there are checks and balances organised between those 3 branches.

It would be accomplished just the same if US was not a federation.

Federation has a sub-nation basis of argument (in the US these are the States that literally make up the name United States).

In the end it needs a deep reading and analysis of the Federalist papers for example....the arguments and counter-arguments between what was the proper balance of Federalism and Centralisation that the American founding fathers argued about extensively.

But the problems of over federal basis (concept of States rights having to take precedence over the union) surfaced in the US in extreme way within 100 years of its founding for a reason too....and directly led to the civil war.

That civil war was the major reason the terminology changed from "These United States" to just "The United States" used today.

This model would not fit Turkiye one bit in my opinion. Ataturk was 100% spot on for model he went with (adopting from French).

BTW, Canada uses a federal system as well, and there is big issue with Quebec long term.

I literally live among it daily (in a "border region" between the two communities)....but various other things (and institutional and public trust reposed in those) help to keep it from simmering over past a level. I would venture Turkiye should never experiment to see if it has those same levels reposed at this juncture.

It would take another proportion altogether for Turkiye to have had one system and then change to Federal (and empower sub nation tendencies past what they already are).

Federations are the strongest countries (USA, Russia, India, Switserland, Brasil).

I see you left out China, Japan, France, UK (and many other strong non-federal republics) conveniently.

Strength comes from many other things in the end....just like weakness does.

Federation is neutral to that stuff overall (it is a hedging of centralisation), but it can expand weaknesses if mis-applied like it inevitably would be in Turkish context....as there are national vs subnational issues that have popped up even with centralised system.

Diversity is NOT a strength (this is the grand liberal lie) of itself. It is an existence/reality that has to be integrated well and made strong.

This needs a careful approach always when talking about centralisation and decentralisation (Federation) on asserted subnation basis (which has its application too, but different context to Turkiye IMO).

 

[Zafer]

Both the UK and the US are governed by the same minds. Whatever their government looks like on the surface they have the one mindset underneath. So unity in the governing minds bring the success.

 

[baklava]

See this place like a thinkthank about the federation and please watch the tv show House of Cards (masterpiece acting by Kevin Spacey) to see how strong a federation could be.

Even when Kevin Spacey is the President of the mightiest nation of the world, he sometimes cant intervene in the internal affairs of states or dictate the different federal agencies. You also see the democratic clashes between different governing bodies with different jurisdictions.

The US militairy for example cant talk with the press by law. The Colorado state police wont hand over their case to the FBI. A judge in Montana cant ask the state of Utah to deliver a suspect to them. As a civillian you will be chosen to take place in a jury in court to convict someone. Its forbidden by law for a President to deplete FEMA budgets (disaster budgets).

In Turkey one man just does anything and everything without control or expertise. Only he decides, from Ankara. Only the centralized government.

How does a statesman in Ankara know what the needs are for the people of Trabzon, Erzurum, Bursa, Hakkari, Van, Mersin?

There is already a federation in Turkiye called Türkiye Futbol Federasyonu.

Jokes aside, it seems like you appreciate the romanticism surrounding the United States, with its flags, logos, and movies (which is great soft power work from the US, by the way).

I'm also curious about how flags for some states would look. However, you already explained why it wouldn't work well in Turkiye.

Imagine someone commits a crime or something worse in a state and flees to their "home" state, where they enjoy a safe haven because every state has its own power. Now, the MIT or the Turkish "FBI," or whatever, has to come in and invest time and resources to charge the criminal in their OWN COUNTRY.

If the resources required are more expensive than the charges against the criminal, they may not even bother to apprehend them. This is just one simple example, but you understand where I'm going with this.

It may work in Switzerland (though it can be very annoying at times), but obviously, we are not Switzerland.