TR Federal State

[Ravenman]

I really think we should consider a federation.

Look at the example of federal states:

1.- USA
2.- Germany
3.- Canada
4.- Russia
5.- Switserland
6.- Brasil
7.- India
8.- Belgium

Much more efficient governing. Greater economy. No turmoil or internal problems. Strong statehood.

No central body with all the burden at the shoulders and slow reaction, but a decentralised government of states with little autonomy

Look the USA. Every state has his:

- own flag
- own police
- own budget
- own governor
- own laws

Some states have a death penalty and some not. Some states kicks migrants out and some not. The central government doesnt interfere in this.

The only things what are central are:

1.- Federal Agencies (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Prisons, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Financing Bank etc)

2.- National Agencies (National Security Agency [NSA], NASA, National Guard etc)

3.- Central Agencies (CENTCOM, CIA, Capitol Police, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention etc)

4.- Language (English)

5.- Valuta (Dollar)

6.- National Anthem

7.- The Constitution

8. Flag (Stars & Stripes)

There is no country in the world with a more efficient democracy, more efficient economy and more efficient politics than the USA (look at their responses to disasters for example).

They have almost 1000 different agencies and everyone is more effective than the other, because its a federal system.

A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov

Get contact information for U.S. federal government agencies, departments, corporations, instrumentalities, and government-sponsored enterprises. Find websites, email, phone numbers, addresses, and more.

www.usa.gov

 

[Ryder]

I agree but I also believe power should be taken away Istanbul.

Istanbul has too much power.

We need to stop making Istanbul the centre of Turkiye.

 

[No Name]

I really think we should consider a federation.

Look at the example of federate states:

1.- USA
2.- Germany
3.- Canada
4.- Russia
5.- Switserland

Much more efficient governing. Greater economy. No turmoil or internal problems. Strong statehood.

No central body with all the burden at the shoulders and slow reaction, but a decentralised government of states with little autonomy

Look the USA. Every state has his:

- own flag
- own police
- own budget
- own governor
- own laws

Some states have a death penalty and some not. Some states kicks migrants out and some not. The central government doesnt interfere in this.

The only things what are central are:

1.- Federal Agencies (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Prisons, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Financing Bank etc)

2.- National Agencies (National Security Agency [NSA], NASA, National Guard etc)

3.- Central Agencies (CENTCOM, CIA, Capitol Police, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention etc)

4.- Language (English)

5.- Valuta (Dollar)

6.- National Anthem

7.- The Constitution

8. Flag (Stars & Stripes)

There is no country in the world with a more efficient democracy, more efficient economy and more efficient politics than the USA (look at their responses to disasters for example).

They have almost 1000 different agencies and everyone is more effective than the other, because its a federal system.

A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov

Get contact information for U.S. federal government agencies, departments, corporations, instrumentalities, and government-sponsored enterprises. Find websites, email, phone numbers, addresses, and more.

www.usa.gov

I'm pretty sure the Turkish constitution forbids a federation and it is one of the parts that can't be changed.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I really think we should consider a federation.

Look at the example of federate states:

1.- USA
2.- Germany
3.- Canada
4.- Russia
5.- Switserland

Much more efficient governing. Greater economy. No turmoil or internal problems. Strong statehood.

No central body with all the burden at the shoulders and slow reaction, but a decentralised government of states with little autonomy

Look the USA. Every state has his:

- own flag
- own police
- own budget
- own governor
- own laws

Some states have a death penalty and some not. Some states kicks migrants out and some not. The central government doesnt interfere in this.

The only things what are central are:

1.- Federal Agencies (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Prisons, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Financing Bank etc)

2.- National Agencies (National Security Agency [NSA], NASA, National Guard etc)

3.- Central Agencies (CENTCOM, CIA, Capitol Police, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention etc)

4.- Language (English)

5.- Valuta (Dollar)

6.- National Anthem

7.- The Constitution

8. Flag (Stars & Stripes)

There is no country in the world with a more efficient democracy, more efficient economy and more efficient politics than the USA (look at their responses to disasters for example).

They have almost 1000 different agencies and everyone is more effective than the other, because its a federal system.

A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov

Get contact information for U.S. federal government agencies, departments, corporations, instrumentalities, and government-sponsored enterprises. Find websites, email, phone numbers, addresses, and more.

www.usa.gov

Its very different about USA , even if they have federal system , they are 1 people , no separatism . 1 language 1 culture . no difference about Ohia vs michigan or New york vs Pensilvania .
If this happen ro Turkiye they will ask for more and complete separate country

 

[Ravenman]

I'm pretty sure the Turkish constitution forbids a federation and it is one of the parts that can't be changed.

Why? What are the bad sides of a federation? I dont see any.

 

[Heartbang]

I'm pretty sure the Turkish constitution forbids a federation and it is one of the parts that can't be changed.

Adding these for reference:

ARTICLE 1- The State of Türkiye is a Republic.

ARTICLE 2- The Republic of Türkiye is a democratic, secular and social state governed by rule of law, within the notions of public peace, national solidarity and justice, respecting human rights, loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the preamble.

ARTICLE 3- The State of Türkiye, with its territory and nation, is an indivisible entity. Its language is Turkish. Its flag, the form of which is prescribed by the relevant law, is composed of a white crescent and star on a red background. Its national anthem is the “Independence March”. Its capital is Ankara.

ARTICLE 4- The provision of Article 1 regarding the form of the State being a Republic, the characteristics of the Republic in Article 2, and the provisions of Article 3 shall not be amended, nor shall their amendment be proposed.

https://www5.tbmm.gov.tr/yayinlar/2021/TC_Anayasasi_ve_TBMM_Ic_Tuzugu_Ingilizce.pdf

 

[Ravenman]

Its very different about USA , even if they have federal system , they are 1 people , no separatism . 1 language 1 culture . no difference about Ohia vs michigan or New york vs Pensilvania .
If this happen ro Turkiye they will ask for more and complete separate country

I understand, but look to Russia. So much different people (Chechens, Dagestanis, Buryats, Tatars etc) but still a united and heavy nationalist country.

And no federal state dears to ask more autonomy or independance from Moskow. But when war comes they all join the army.

 

[Ravenman]

Adding these for reference:

https://www5.tbmm.gov.tr/yayinlar/2021/TC_Anayasasi_ve_TBMM_Ic_Tuzugu_Ingilizce.pdf

These articles dont forbid a federation, they only acknowledge that we must be a republic with one flag and capital.

The US is a federal republic with a President and Congress and Senate.

I think most people fear that Eastern regions will ask for indepance to create a 'Kurdistan', but if you have a strong army and nation thats not possible, otherwise California or New York would ask independance a long time ago.

I think two political parties like in the US is also the best for Turkey because in the US you dont have little tiny parties organized by minorities that create chaos in the Congress or Senate like the HDP in Turkey.

 

[No Name]

Why? What are the bad sides of a federation? I dont see any.

I think they put in that part due to the ottoman empires experience with minorities.

Its very different about USA , even if they have federal system , they are 1 people , no separatism . 1 language 1 culture . no difference about Ohia vs michigan or New york vs Pensilvania .
If this happen ro Turkiye they will ask for more and complete separate country

it could work in turkey as well. The only problem is the south eats, but if the government takes a page out of the ottoman empire's playbook and shafts around the country's population it wouldn't have to worry about separatism as the main reason for that is the large build-up of ethnic Kurds in the south. The secret to getting rid of separatism is to mix the population of a country thus eliminating an ethnic heartland.

 

[Ravenman]

I think they put in that part due to the ottoman empires experience with minorities.

it could work in turkey as well. The only problem is the south eats, but if the government takes a page out of the ottoman empire's playbook and shafts around the country's population it wouldn't have to worry about separatism as the main reason for that is the large build-up of ethnic Kurds in the south. The secret to getting rid of separatism is to mix the population of a country thus eliminating an ethnic heartland.

I agree. A federation has a lot of efficient and democratic statehood because some states have a death penalty and some not.

If a terrorist attack someone in Texas (death penalty), then only the Texas law enforcements would go after him. But when he fleds Texas and travel to New York (no death penalty) it becames a federal case because he crossed the stateborder and the FBI will chase him and deliver him back to Texas where he can be hanged without intervening from the White House.

Now imagine all those PKK terrorists getting a death penalty in their state without intervening from Ankara/AKP/Erdogan/HDP/Civil rights movements etc.

 

[Heartbang]

I understand, but look to Russia. So much different people (Chechens, Dagestanis, Buryats, Tatars etc) but still a united and heavy nationalist country.

And no federal state dears to ask more autonomy or independance from Moskow. But when war comes they all join the army.

Russia achieves that through a massive scale of oppression, including the state security apparatus keeping constant tabs on its subjects and systemic withholding of economic opportunities from the minorities. Not to mention the fact that those ethnic groups are "culled" once in a while via wars Kremlin tends to entangle itself with.

If that's what you want for your fellow Kurds, be my guest.

 

[No Name]

I understand, but look to Russia. So much different people (Chechens, Dagestanis, Buryats, Tatars etc) but still a united and heavy nationalist country.

And no federal state dears to ask more autonomy or independance from Moskow. But when war comes they all join the army.

That is because of two factors:

1. There are large groups of ethnic Russians in those areas

2. Russia is a dictatorship in all but name.

These articles dont forbid a federation, they only acknowledge that we must be a republic with one flag and capital.

The US is a federal republic with a President and Congress and Senate.

I think most people fear that Eastern regions will ask for indepance to create a 'Kurdistan', but if you have a strong army and nation thats not possible, otherwise California or New York would ask independance a long time ago.

I think two political parties like in the US is also the best for Turkey because in the US you dont have little tiny parties organized by minorities that create chaos in the Congress or Senate like the HDP in Turkey.

although the article doesn't out write state that a federation is forbidden, it does state that the country needs to be run on the ideals of Ataturk which is Kemalism and Kemalism is in favour of a Unitary Republic.

 

[Ravenman]

Russia achieves that through a massive scale of oppression, including the state security apparatus keeping constant tabs on its subjects and systemic withholding of economic opportunities from the minorities. Not to mention the fact that those ethnic groups are "culled" once in a while via wars Kremlin tends to entangle itself with.

If that's what you want for your fellow Kurds, be my guest.

I really want it. I still never understand why there is no thinktank or university in Turkey that could research or advocate a federation.

The Netherlands are a Kingdom with a King and Queen but you have a big republican thinktank that represents the republican movement and every year they publish their researchs and opinion surveys. They keep the debate and idea live at that way.

I really dream about a Turkish variant of the FBI that only investigates federal crimes why every province in Turkey has his own big policedepartment with different policecars and different policeuniforms (the cowboy agents from Arizona with their black and white policecars against the black uniformed cops from New York with their bluewhite cars). A policeagent from Istanbul doesnt have jurisdiction in Trabzon and a detective from Diyarbakir cant arrest or follow someone in Sakarya.

And every province has his own local flag (with regionally symbols) next to the national flag at their website and in front of the Town Hall. And their own governor who is the real boss in the province and chose by the people of the province.

Much more efficient politics and democracy and statehood instead of waiting for permission from one guy in the White Palace in Ankara.

 

[Ravenman]

although the article doesn't out write state that a federation is forbidden, it does state that the country needs to be run on the ideals of Ataturk which is Kemalism and Kemalism is in favour of a Unitary Republic.

Ataturk was great sympathizer of the United States (he didnt like the UK because of the monarch system and saw them as outdated) because in his youth time the US was a young and fresh nation created by poor European pioneers and became alsmost a world power (they became a real world power in 1946).

He respected and admired their democracy and republican system. Ataturk was a real republican, not a liberal or socialist. If he had lived long enough, he would install a federation but he had to much problems in the starting years of the Turkish republic (rebellions, uprisings, poverty, reconstruction, bad economy).

 

[Heartbang]

I really want it. I still never understand why there is no thinktank or university in Turkey that could research or advocate a federation.

The Netherlands are a Kingdom with a King and Queen but you have a big republican thinktank that represents the republican movement and every year they publish their researchs and opinion surveys. They keep the debate and idea live at that way.

I really dream about a Turkish variant of the FBI that only investigates federal crimes why every province in Turkey has his own big policedepartment with different policecars and different policeuniforms (the cowboy agents from Arizona with their black and white policecars against the black uniformed cops from New York with their bluewhite cars). A policeagent from Istanbul doesnt have jurisdiction in Trabzon and a detective from Diyarbakir cant arrest or follow someone in Sakarya.

And every province has his own local flag (with regionally symbols) next to the national flag at their website and in front of the Town Hall. And their own governor who is the real boss in the province and chose by the people of the province.

Much more efficient politics and democracy and statehood instead of waiting for permission from one guy in the White Palace in Ankara.

And I want to boink several famous celebrities. Do you see me opening threads about it?

You have made abundantly clear that you're not seeking the embetterment of our nation by wanting this, you want this because it "looks cool" or "feels good." I will not entertain this juvenile mindset no further.

Furthermore I call upon the moderators to take decisive action upon this utter drivel.

@Test7 @TR_123456 @Mis_TR_Like @Cabatli_TR

 

[Test7]

And I want to boink several famous celebrities. Do you see me opening threads about it?

You have made abundantly clear that you're not seeking the embetterment of our nation by wanting this, you want this because it "looks cool" or "feels good." I will not entertain this juvenile mindset no further.

Furthermore I call upon the moderators to take decisive action upon this utter drivel.

@Test7 @TR_123456 @Mis_TR_Like @Cabatli_TR

Hi Dear @Heartbang ,

No content was found that violated the forum rules. As DefenceHub previously announced, this is a free/open-minded platform and we committed to freely posting your legal ideas. There is only one condition and that is not to break the rules.

 

[No Name]

And I want to boink several famous celebrities. Do you see me opening threads about it?

You have made abundantly clear that you're not seeking the embetterment of our nation by wanting this, you want this because it "looks cool" or "feels good." I will not entertain this juvenile mindset no further.

Furthermore I call upon the moderators to take decisive action upon this utter drivel.

@Test7 @TR_123456 @Mis_TR_Like @Cabatli_TR

I actually believe a federal system would be good for Turkey, but the problem is that the ethnic heartland must be destroyed by intermixing the population of the south-east with the rest of Turkey. Then again, the problems in the southeast could also be solved by turning the area into territories instead of states, thus leading to an appointed head governor with central over executive power, unlike the rest of the states, with would be run by a legislature.

The greatest problem faced by turkey is that parliamentary are not elected. They are appointed by the party, which creates an undemocratic process that creates corruption. the truth is that for Turkey to develop, it needs to abandon the D'Hondt method and the party-list proportional representation system for it's General elections.

 

[Zafer]

24 existing states
population 400.000.000 > %5,15 of the World
income 6.237.152 > %4,92 of the World

 

[Ravenman]

And I want to boink several famous celebrities. Do you see me opening threads about it?

You have made abundantly clear that you're not seeking the embetterment of our nation by wanting this, you want this because it "looks cool" or "feels good." I will not entertain this juvenile mindset no further.

Furthermore I call upon the moderators to take decisive action upon this utter drivel.

@Test7 @TR_123456 @Mis_TR_Like @Cabatli_TR

See this place like a thinkthank about the federation and please watch the tv show House of Cards (masterpiece acting by Kevin Spacey) to see how strong a federation could be.

Even when Kevin Spacey is the President of the mightiest nation of the world, he sometimes cant intervene in the internal affairs of states or dictate the different federal agencies. You also see the democratic clashes between different governing bodies with different jurisdictions.

The US militairy for example cant talk with the press by law. The Colorado state police wont hand over their case to the FBI. A judge in Montana cant ask the state of Utah to deliver a suspect to them. As a civillian you will be chosen to take place in a jury in court to convict someone. Its forbidden by law for a President to deplete FEMA budgets (disaster budgets).

In Turkey one man just does anything and everything without control or expertise. Only he decides, from Ankara. Only the centralized government.

How does a statesman in Ankara know what the needs are for the people of Trabzon, Erzurum, Bursa, Hakkari, Van, Mersin?

 

[dBSPL]

There is only one reasonable way to open this discussion: The territory of the Republic of Turkiye should be part in this federation as a whole. I hope I have made my point clear.

I think this was Atatürk's dream too. If not as a federation, then as a confederative structure like todays EU's dream for next decades. And this was also the worst nightmare of British intelligence in the same years.