TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[TR_123456]

You live in Germany, yet you have such hostile ideas against Europe. Maybe your way of thinking is what makes Europeans weary of you, and why they feel threatened.

How would you feel if people who moved to your country would have such bad opinions about it and would be open to such hostile ideas?

Those hostile ideas were created by Europe itself,you need to understand the history of Turks in Europe first and the European policies against Turks and none European immigrants.
There was almost no policy of including them into the European society,most countries just created getto's(lack of interest),discrimination,second class citizen etc.
So,no inclusiveness.
Türkiye's policy was the opposite,inclusiveness of all ''Turks'' around the world.
If you were in such a position,where would your alignment be?
Every foreigner(refugess excluded since you know what) living in Türkiye is included in society,not excluded.
See the difference?

 

[Ahlatshah]

By the way, this is the first time Trump and Erdoğan talked since Trump assumed the office for a second time. First time in 2 months. Good, and bad.

I dont think it is bad. Trump has needed and will always need an enemy or adversary. As unstable as he is, so long as he doesnt aim for us, it is all good. we shouldnt mess with "crazy of village"

 

[GoatsMilk]

The discords between Europeans is very interesting. Most of them for example have historical grievances concerning their borders. Most countries that neighbour each other have historical claims to each others territories. Not to mention that discrimination and racism is extreme in many of them. For example look at how the "gypsies" are treated in most of europe. Yet no media ever provokes these discords between them, yet all of them without fail will talk about the "Kurds".

And when you look into those discords, the most death, destruction and tyranny Europeans have experienced has been caused to them by other Europeans. The Turk, the Muslim in general is nothing compared to what Europeans have done to themselves.

I've visited quite a few countries in europe and the racism in many of them is bordering fanatical. In a place like the czech republic outside of Prague if your brown skinned that is enough for no one to give you a job. Also a crazy level of ignorance pervades many these racist cultures/nations, they think they know everything about you but know next to nothing.

 

[contricusc]

There was almost no policy of including them into the European society,most countries just created getto's(lack of interest),discrimination,second class citizen etc.
So,no inclusiveness.

It is easy to lay the blame on the host countries for not including them in their societies, but from the host country’s perspective, it is the fault of the foreigners who didn’t want to assimilate and segregated themselves in ghettos.

There is a lot of intra-European migration because of the free movement withing the EU, but you don’t have the same problem with lack of integration as you have with people from outside Europe. Maybe this is because people from outside Europe have a different culture and don’t want to integrate, not because they are not welcome.

To be fair, I would say the blame lies somewhere in the middle. The host countries are surely more reluctant when it comes to non-European migrants, but also the migrants are more prone to mingle among themselves and refuse to integrate into the local populatiom.

I’m just pointing out that from a European perspective, you see many people from outside Europe migrating to Europe, and failing to integrate. On the other hand, Europeans who migrate outside Europe always integrate into the local countries and are generally a net benefit to their economies, as they generally are above average in income and consumption, and they are usually more educated than the average person.

Considering the above, it is easy to conclude that Europeans are not the problem. And when you see open hostility towards Europe from the same people who moved there, the animosity and distrust can only go up. And this creates a vicious cycle, as those migrants get treated unfairly because of that fear and animosity, and they turn even more radical against the host countries.

It’s a really bad situation that is very hard to fix at this moment, because the amount of non-European migrants who arrived in Europe in the last decades was too high for the host countries to be able to assimilate in a healthy manner. And once the migrants feel discriminated and hated, they behave in a way that will only reinforce those feelings, and the situation spirals out of control.

I think that Turks in Europe would have integrated much better if it was not for the wave of migrants from Africa, Middle East and Asia that flooded Europe lately, which created hard feelings towards everyone non-European, and especially from an islamic country.

 

[Sanchez]

To be fair, I would say the blame lies somewhere in the middle.

There's a reason why 3rd generation university educated German Turks with high paying jobs are leaving their home countries and returning back to Turkey. I have 3 cousins that were born in Europe, 2 settled in Antalya last year. They are highly educated girls, both speaking 2 languages on top of German and Turkish. They don't view themselves as Germans, but Turks. They don't see themselves as a part of Germany, which I do find interesting. Turks in US, Canada, or even Netherlands don't usually feel the same and are much more integrated. Germany fucked up big time integrating their Turkish minority to their national myth. And with the country going further far right, rest will feel the heat as well.

I dont think it is bad. Trump has needed and will always need an enemy or adversary. As unstable as he is, so long as he doesnt aim for us, it is all good. we shouldnt mess with "crazy of village"

Oh, definitely. It's best if he just doesn't think about us unless it's absolutely necessary for the next 4 years.

 

[TR_123456]

I think that Turks in Europe would have integrated much better if it was not for the wave of migrants from Africa, Middle East and Asia that flooded Europe lately, which created hard feelings towards everyone non-European, and especially from an islamic country.

Turks came here in the 60's and 70's,you are comparing apples and oranges.
And who accepted all those migrants from Africa,Asia and whatnot with their strange cultures,and who let them keep their cultures and habits instead of integrating them into society?
In the UK they created a different society with their own customs clothes culture etc,in Belgium(Brussels),you cant enter certain neighborhoods as a native,in Berlin try going to an Arab(Palestinians,Syrians,Iraqis) neighborhood as a none Arab,in France whole cities have changed to Africa.
Who did all this?
Turks were all modern in the 60's 70's 80's,it all started from the 90's on when all the rest started coming and fucked up the whole system.
Again,who's fault is that?

 

[contricusc]

Not to mention that discrimination and racism is extreme in many of them. For example look at how the "gypsies" are treated in most of europe. Yet no media ever provokes these discords between them, yet all of them without fail will talk about the "Kurds".

The gypsies are not discriminated against in Europe. There are actually many programs (most of them funded with EU money) that are directed to help their communities. There are even instances of positive discrimination for gypsies, like reserved spots at universities.

The problems lies mostly with their own culture, as they tend to dislike education and enjoy more criminal ways of life like stealing, begging, prostitution, etc. (not all of them of course, but many of them do).

I've visited quite a few countries in europe and the racism in many of them is bordering fanatical. In a place like the czech republic outside of Prague if your brown skinned that is enough for no one to give you a job.

Outside of big cities which are more multi-cultural, people have less experience with non-white people, so they tend to mistrust them, be afraid of them. There is obviously a higher level of racism and xenophobia in rural areas than in big cities, but this applies to every country and culture, not only to Europe.

 

[Sanchez]

The gypsies are not discriminated against in Europe. There are actually many programs (most of them funded with EU money) that are directed to help their communities.

Oh come on. This is even less true than saying Syrian refugees are not discriminated against in Turkey.

 

[contricusc]

Turks were all modern in the 60's 70's 80's,it all started from the 90's on when all the rest started coming and fucked up the whole system.
Again,who's fault is that?

This is exactly what I was saying. Turks integrated just fine, but when the wave of Africans and Arabs flooded Europe, resentment grew towards every non-European, and the Turks were caught in the middle. Most uneducated Europeans can’t diffeentiate between Turks, Arabs, Africans, etc., and label everyone as “muslims”.

I agree that Western countries (especially UK, Belgium and France) did very poorly at integrating non-European migrants. Their cultures are very incompatible, and their welfare systems were prone to abuse, resulting in the mess we see today.

But for the local population, the present situation is bad, and they hate everybody for it, including those who are not responsible. It is sad, but it is what it is.

 

[contricusc]

Germany fucked up big time integrating their Turkish minority to their national myth. And with the country going further far right, rest will feel the heat as well.

I think it is very hard to integrate in Germany, regardless of where you come from. They have a very different culture compared to Balkan and Mediterranean nations. I know many Romanians also migrated to Germany initially after we joined the EU, but after a while most of them left towards friendlier countries like UK, Spain and Italy.

I think it is very hard for a foreigner to become and feel German.

 

[TR_123456]

But for the local population, the present situation is bad, and they hate everybody for it, including those who are not responsible. It is sad, but it is what it is.

In the Netherlands they know the difference between Turks and the rest and thats why they act accordingly.

 

[YeşilVatan]

European irrational hatred toward Turks is a very real and concrete phenomenon, and I find people who ignore this obvious fact to be dishonest with themselves.

And this irrational hatred is somehow less pronounced against other muslims, even when their conduct is far worse. If grooming gangs were aTurkish and not Pakistani thing, we would never hear the end of it.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

European irrational hatred toward Turks is a very real and concrete phenomenon, and I find people who ignore this obvious fact to be dishonest with themselves.

And this irrational hatred is somehow less pronounced against other muslims, even when their conduct is far worse. If grooming gangs were aTurkish and not Pakistani thing, we would never hear the end of it.

I think the reason for that is because the Turks have the potential to be a real threat, the others you mentioned do not. They know deep down that us Turks can become A LOT stronger than we already are, history proved that countless times.

Look how many people are STILL butthurt to the core after so many years because our people conquered theirs.

That's why they focus their hate towards the Turks even though it's not us doing all the shit in those Countries.

 

[Huelague]

USA hits the Houthis. And in the future a strike against Iran could possible.
Should Türkiye join the US-Israel axis?

 

[TR_123456]

USA hits the Houthis. And in the future a strike against Iran could possible.
Should Türkiye join the US-Israel axis?

No we shouldnt but you know its all talk and no walk,right?

 

[contricusc]

European irrational hatred toward Turks is a very real and concrete phenomenon, and I find people who ignore this obvious fact to be dishonest with themselves.

And this irrational hatred is somehow less pronounced against other muslims, even when their conduct is far worse. If grooming gangs were aTurkish and not Pakistani thing, we would never hear the end of it.

Look how many people are STILL butthurt to the core after so many years because our people conquered theirs.

I would say that I strongly disagree with both quoted statements.

I am from Romania, a country that had a long history of fighting with the Ottomans, and should theoretically harbor hatred towards Turks because of the history.

However, the exact opposite is true. Since we had more contact with Turks during our history, we know you better than we know other muslim nations, and we know that we actually have more in common with you than what separates us. The general feeling towards Turkey is quite positive, and we have Turkish people living in our country for centuries, and they are well integrated and seen no different than locals.

If you ask a random Romanian what he thinks about a Turk, the first thing that would come into mind is that the Turk is probably a business person, so he would mostly be perceived as someone above average in wealth, and as a competent person. The stereotype is quite positive in this case.

We also like to vacation in your country and we feel very at home, because there is a lot in common culturally, from food to music and laid back lifestyle.

We are clearly much more inclined to deal with Turks than with Arabs or Pakistanis. I actually find it very strange that a lot of Turks here complain about Europeans being very nasty against them, because from the place where I come from, Turks are by far the best viewed muslim people.

 

[TR_123456]

I would say that I strongly disagree with both quoted statements.

I am from Romania, a country that had a long history of fighting with the Ottomans, and should theoretically harbor hatred towards Turks because of the history.

However, the exact opposite is true. Since we had more contact with Turks during our history, we know you better than we know other muslim nations, and we know that we actually have more in common with you than what separates us. The general feeling towards Turkey is quite positive, and we have Turkish people living in our country for centuries, and they are well integrated and seen no different than locals.

If you ask a random Romanian what he thinks about a Turk, the first thing that would come into mind is that the Turk is probably a business person, so he would mostly be perceived as someone above average in wealth, and as a competent person. The stereotype is quite positive in this case.

We also like to vacation in your country and we feel very at home, because there is a lot in common culturally, from food to music and laid back lifestyle.

We are clearly much more inclined to deal with Turks than with Arabs or Pakistanis. I actually find it very strange that a lot of Turks here complain about Europeans being very nasty against them, because from the place where I come from, Turks are by far the best viewed muslim people.

Turks never talk ill of Romanians,as you said many cultural similarities and we get along very well.
I believe we even have a defence pact or something for in case Romania is attacked by someone,just like with Hungary.

 

[Ahlatshah]

I would say that I strongly disagree with both quoted statements.

I am from Romania, a country that had a long history of fighting with the Ottomans, and should theoretically harbor hatred towards Turks because of the history.

However, the exact opposite is true. Since we had more contact with Turks during our history, we know you better than we know other muslim nations, and we know that we actually have more in common with you than what separates us. The general feeling towards Turkey is quite positive, and we have Turkish people living in our country for centuries, and they are well integrated and seen no different than locals.

If you ask a random Romanian what he thinks about a Turk, the first thing that would come into mind is that the Turk is probably a business person, so he would mostly be perceived as someone above average in wealth, and as a competent person. The stereotype is quite positive in this case.

We also like to vacation in your country and we feel very at home, because there is a lot in common culturally, from food to music and laid back lifestyle.

We are clearly much more inclined to deal with Turks than with Arabs or Pakistanis. I actually find it very strange that a lot of Turks here complain about Europeans being very nasty against them, because from the place where I come from, Turks are by far the best viewed muslim people.

I can concur these points. Attitude of Romanians towards Turks is quite positive. I spent some time there and that was a nice surprise to me. They mostly hate Russians though

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Some people have no idea, the racism in Europe (Germany) is real, find a decent apartment in Germany for you and your family..... Good Luck.
When it comes to jobs/promotions you are usually ignored, unless you make yourself indispensable as a Capacity + Vitamin Connection.
Then you get what you deserve, but sometimes with the greatest reluctance from some in the company, as was the case with me.
Where I then indicated that I would reorient myself, and take my customer base with me.
Then they came back with a new offer.

 

[Iskander]

"If Putin can persuade the US to partially lift sanctions, as the Trump administration is trying to do, and establish a strategic partnership between Moscow and Washington, then the whole world will stand up and say Putin has won," said Michael Clarke, a research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute for Defence and Security Studies in Britain (Sky news)



This means that Europe, under pressure from the US, has accepted the ultimatum that Russia gave NATO in November 2021

Trump is scheduled to speak to Putin on the phone today.