My own opinion is migration has to be 100% halted. Even no more asylums. Yes if a millionaire or doctor applies they should be considered. Along with this strict policy no more wars or intrusions abroad. Non.
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It will be stopped when ordinary french people decide once again to do low profiled jobs. That train has passed. You can not outsource medical stuff, contructi9n and various crafts work. Simplier solution is that french state admits defeat of militant secularism which inclines to the fasism or other option will be materialisation of this letter.My own opinion is migration has to be 100% halted. Even no more asylums. Yes if a millionaire or doctor applies they should be considered. Along with this strict policy no more wars or intrusions abroad. Non.
With respect, I disagree. A economy should endeavour to up the value chain. I understand very well that as this process happens, citizens of that country don't want to do basic things like a taxi, a painter, a cleaner etc. The truth is they will do those jobs but expect higher wages. This means average citizens like you and me have be prepared to pay more for these services. If you pay enough your own citizens wil do these jobs.It will be stopped when ordinary french people decide once again to do low profiled jobs. That train has passed. You can not outsource medical stuff, contructi9n and various crafts work. Simplier solution is that french state admits defeat of militant secularism which inclines to the fasism or other option will be materialisation of this letter.
In India they have 100,000s of men pulling rickshaws.
To summarize they are criticizing the government's inaction and softness against those who are trying to divide the nation. The islamists,the racialists,those who want to rewrite our country's history and people of immigrant background who create insecurity in the suburbs. They say our laws are already strong but that our justice system is too soft against all those people and that we don't use the potential of our penal code to strictly condemn criminals,terrorists etc.
I'll tell you an exemple. Few days ago there was a trial about immigrant background youths who in 2016 in Viry-Châtillon attacked police officers who were inside their cars protecting a CCTV that was installed in the area. Dozens and dozens of them came threw molotov in their cars and blocked the doors so they couldn't get out. It was a miracle they weren't dead.
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All those "good people" risked life in prison but many received sentences of between 6 years to 18 years. They say criminals don't fear the justice and the police because we are too soft on them.
They say that if the government continues to be soft and does nothing it will need the army to restore order at the cost of thousands and thousands of lives.
As for solutions they just say the government should strictly apply current laws . if the government continues to be soft and does nothing the army will need to restore order at a cost of thousands and thousands of lives. Lot of interpretations in this sentence.
BTW polls showed 40% of French would like to live under a totalitarian regime and 60% would like strong technocrats in power,unelected but strong who would push for needed reforms..
Sorry. That was the case until 2017 when I looked into the very interesting Indian industry. The fact is that was not 1000 years ago. Even today you have 10,000s of human articulated pedel cycled rickshaws which are only slight up on the man pulled ones. Anyway we can open a thread to look into this phenomenon later as I don't want to deviate from this thread. So let us leave that for a dedicated thread on man rickshaws.Wrong. There are just a handful left (if that) in only Kolkata, mostly by a "legacy" inertia.
Sorry. That was the case until 2017 when I looked into the very interesting Indian industry. The fact is that was not 1000 years ago. Even today you have 10,000s of human articulated pedel cycled rickshaws which are only slight up on the man pulled ones. Anyway we can open a thread to look into this phenomenon later as I don't want to deviate from this thread. So let us leave that for a dedicated thread on man rickshaws.
Which part of the "I don't want to deviate" this thread did you not understand. I will open a dedicated thread on the man drawn taxis of India where you will have plenty of chance to mask it. So be patient.If you have any source that says there were "100s of thousands" of rickshaw pullers in 2017, lets see it.
As for cycle rickshaws (vis a vis motor rickshaws), anyone can google "Pakistan cycle rickshaws" regarding this whole matter. There is even a whole tribune.pk article on one such thing...I guess that will have to be posted if you do start a thread on it later.
You can start any thread on any such matter....it will go the same usual way (as the ones before it) especially once you filter out your specific "go to" cherrypicked anecdotes.
i.e The way of a 60 dollars (and decreasing) saved per person would naturally go....compared to what the other two countries in the region do (and how this bears out in just about every economic number of consequence).
If a country doesn't save and invest at a basic level (forget even growing past that), one can similarly forget about any meaningful productivity and economy debate to begin with.
There was no reason to bring India into this thread. So I had to clarify what was faulty (and non-credible) regarding it.
France and Europe-at-large and developed world have plenty of context for the OP-related argument on their own.
I don't want to deviate from this thread.
With due respect i disagree and you have claims with contradiction, all examples you mentioned were driven by immigrants and you said in earlier post that all immigration should be stopped, so how those examples would work with France?With respect, I disagree. A economy should endeavour to up the value chain. I understand very well that as this process happens, citizens of that country don't want to do basic things like a taxi, a painter, a cleaner etc. The truth is they will do those jobs but expect higher wages. This means average citizens like you and me have be prepared to pay more for these services. If you pay enough your own citizens wil do these jobs.
This also has another effect. As wages go up for these basic jobs this encourages adaptation of technology to take the burden of those jobs. This is real value addition and helps all your citizens.
I give you one example of this. By 1990s all car washes in UK had gone automatic. The reason was labour was too expensive. Large companies sprouted like IMO that used high technology at their sites to wash your car. Everything was automatic and cost was £3.
Came late 1990s and we had huge influx of migrants in UK. Next thing on every unoccupied plot of land these hand car washes opened with a mob of guys doing everything by hand. Standard of wash tended to vary by place and even by day but on average I would say they were better then IMO autowashes particularly as the concern with damage to high quality modern paints by those rolling brushes. But the killer was they charged £3. Think about that.
The result was they put many of those auto places out of business. This is example of economic reverse gear. And this is not good even if at a personal level I as customer got my car hand washed. Typically these guys were being paid below legal wages and were ran by criminal rackets.
You want you economy to climb up causing increasing technology to enter every area of activity. In India they have 100,000s of men pulling rickshaws. This is hardly a good thing. It demonstrates that wages are so low on the bottom end in India that men are cheaper then animals at pulling leave alone a engine as means of articulation.
Is that what people want? I think some groups are behind this. What happens as workers demand higher pay and the employers push to create a alternate pool of cheap labour to keep wages low. This is where migration comes into this. That is why the ruling elites in the west have allowed inner cities in their countries to go through demographic change over the decades.
I give you a example close to home. I live in North England and in the hills of pennines there are lots of small mill towns. Horrid. Examples of Victorian squalor. Always were and still are. These mill towns grew around streams of water that was ideal for washing wool. The hills that are everywhere are only good for animal pasture and that means sheep everywhere. This gave birth to woolen industry. This was a dirty, filthy business. Workers died young inhaling the dust from the processing that went on inside these mills. Soon most of the worlds wool was being exported from these towns.
Typically the owners built a mill and then constructed row after of cheap terrace housing to crowd in their workers. I read that the average lifespan of the wool worker was 45 and they began the work by age 13-14 including girls. This is sort of industry that put the "Great" into Britain.
Post war and 1950s things had changed. The new generation did not want to work in those mills. As labour dried up wages went up and even then there were not enough workers willing to work in those disgusting mills.
This is when the mill owners approached UK government which arranged with Pakistan to bring in migrant workers. Soon entire mill towns were full of Pakistani workers and these mills again boomed returning huge profits. This was a rremarkable emerging social experiment playing out. Workers recruited from Pakistan with the poorest, most conservative, backward, illiterate demographies poured into these towns. Some of the slightly better of amongst them left soon after working in the hellish mills. That left only those who came from the most desperate situations. It might be harsh but these guys were the scrapings from bottom of the barrel in Pakistani society.
With 15 years of them arriving or about early 1970s these mills began to go bust and close down. The reason was countries across the globe like Taiwan, Argentina, China, Hong Kong and even Pakistan began to compete. Given their lower costs these mills closed down. Today almost all are shut down except for a few that make very high speciality wools using hi-tec computerized manufacture and products that cater to the top end of the market.
So what become of the mill towns? Mass unemployment. As the native English had left the squalor of the terrace houses for the newly built suburbs a sharp racial divide has come about. Over the past 20/30 years these communities have become feertile ground for Islamists.
This is not good because they now provide the fuel for the far right. Thus far the situation is stable but my fear is if this sort of thing continues which is result of what they call political myopia - that is in a 5 year election cycle political governments make decisions on a narrow 5 year window even if the results 20 years down the road are disasterous.
Note I am also a son of a migrant although I was lucky that my father came to UK as lawyer wanting to do his post-graduate studies so I was fortunate to have a privilaged upbringing. But I have to look at the issue objectively for the sake of our future generations.
I often defend my community because I can't allow far right narrative to gain ground but the fact is wqe have to find a holistic solution for the sake of all. Note that in differant regions of UK the same pattern is repeated. It could b e Sikhs, Black Afro-Caribreans etc etc. All have their own particulat issues.
For instance Islamists might be a issue in the Pakistani areas but if you got to London where the Afro-Caribeans have their 'hood' shooting, stabbing, mugging is rage. 70% of London stabbing or shooting happens within this community.
I remember the 2 year yellow vest protest that no main stream media wanted to report. The french police behaved like savage violent animals. The violence and criminality the french state employed was shocking terrifying stuff. It made gezi in Turkey look like childs play.
Have the protests ended or are they still going?
Awesome contributions to the thread.@Vergennes Western Europe needs a frank, honest and open debate on migration. This subject will be the greatest challange the region will face over the next 50 years. Far greater then the threat from Islamism which always was overplayed.
Most migration is driven by pull and push factors. The greatest factor informing the push is population growth. The surplus created as deaths fall leads to a huge surge creating a massive pool of unemployed young men. In most parts of the world populations are now past the apex point on the graph. However Sub Saharan Africa is about to hit that point and over next 50 years will the source of massive waves of migration. In fact this haas already began. This wave will be sucked up the Sahara and leak into the Mediteranean through unstable countries primarily Libya which was destabilised by design.
This wave will and is washing on the shores of Southern Europe. How this is tackled will be crucial or it might as I fear lead to the chaos and rise of the far right as we saw in Europe of the 1930s.
Africa's youth: A ticking time bomb? – DW – 12/04/2017
About 77 percent of Africa's population is younger than 35. Frustration grows as many feel they are losing out on economic opportunities and participation. DW kicks off "The 77 percent" to give them a platform.www.dw.com
I remember the 2 year yellow vest protest that no main stream media wanted to report. The french police behaved like savage violent animals. The violence and criminality the french state employed was shocking terrifying stuff. It made gezi in Turkey look like childs play.
Have the protests ended or are they still going?
Good observation. I disagree with our French moderator. The police officers in France are well-known for their brutality and violence. They use excessive and unwarranted force on a daily basis and it hasn't changed anything. France hasn't turned into a safe heaven for its citizens despite the police beating every black/brown person in sight.
The issue isn't law enforcement, it's France' colonial past. Karma is a bitch.
Good observation. I disagree with our French moderator. The police officers in France are well-known for their brutality and violence. They use excessive and unwarranted force on a daily basis and it hasn't changed anything. France hasn't turned into a safe heaven for its citizens despite the police beating every black/brown person in sight.
The issue isn't law enforcement, it's France' colonial past. Karma is a bitch.
I know right, the idea that the French state is soft is pure nonsense. The yellow vest protest that went on for over a year was pure brutality of the highest order. Most mainstream media barely covered it in Europe.
The way the french police were terrorising and kicking the absolute shit out the French citizens was harrowing. All i could think is if they are willing to do this to the native french, how must they treat their brown minorities.
You yourself are a Pakistani migrant, living in the UK, calling for all migration to be 100% halted...My own opinion is migration has to be 100% halted. Even no more asylums. Yes if a millionaire or doctor applies they should be considered. Along with this strict policy no more wars or intrusions abroad. Non.
Yes. I made that clear.If your in a boat and 100s of others want to jump into it, would you egg them on? Thus causing the boat to sink, killing everybody. Or would you say "enough" and inisist on no more. As a child of migrants I don't want the boat to sink and taking all of us down. I would rather try and find other solutions. I suggested no more wars and a equitable trading order to offer opportunities across the globe thus mitigating the drivers of migration.What a joke, (if you can understand it, that is).