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Greek MoND: The balance of military power between Greece and Turkiye has started to change in favor of the Greek side

Yasar_TR

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Yes but,it doesnt matter if they get pushed/dragged into a war against us does it,a headache is headache.
I dont know whats wrong with Greeks,they keep being used against us,dont they see?
I have many Greek friends of which all are cool people,how is this posssible?
Bro, they are cool with you on the surface. Deep down they are brain washed to see you as their worst enemy. That is bred in to their genes after centuries of indoctrination. I have first hand experience of this myself. My classmate at uni who sat 4 years next to me. Spent most of his time with me and my group as a close buddy, after his military service turned in to a different person altogether. I had to kick him out as a friend from my media accounts.

Until they change their state policy of demonising Turks and Turkiye, I am afraid they will not change.
 

Lool

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In recent days, Greece and Israel have resolved outstanding issues surrounding the project, including a requirement for at least 25% Greek participation and provisions covering the transfer of source code.
The source-code provision is particularly significant because it is intended to give the Greek armed forces control over the software running the electronic subsystems of the network, rather than leaving the country entirely dependent on the Israeli suppliers for that layer of the system.

At the center of the network will be software using artificial intelligence to process information from the various subsystems. The software is intended to identify and classify potential threats, assess the available response options and recommend the most appropriate means of interception.
The system will connect capabilities covering ballistic missile defense, counter-drone operations and broader air defense. According to Greek officials, it will be able to evaluate incoming data without human intervention and indicate what it considers the optimal response.

That element reflects a broader shift in the way Athens is approaching defense modernization. Dendias has described Achilles’ Shield as part of the government's Agenda 2030 strategy to turn the Greek armed forces into a more technology-driven military capable of responding to modern threats.

Greek officials also see the network as a way to make air defense more economical.

The cost of responding to relatively inexpensive threats can quickly become disproportionate when expensive military assets are used to intercept them. Defense officials have pointed in particular to drones and other unmanned aerial vehicles, which can be engaged by fighter aircraft at a cost far exceeding that of the incoming threat.

Under the agreement, 12 Greek defense companies will directly participate in the program, securing a 25% domestic industrial share valued at approximately €700 million ($796–$800 million).

Key Areas of Greek Industrial Participation

Command-and-Control (C2) & AI Integration: Greek technology firms will co-develop and integrate the national-level C2 architecture, connecting new Israeli systems (David's Sling, Barak MX, and SPYDER) with existing Greek assets such as Patriot batteries, radars, and drone networks.

Source Code Access & Intellectual Property: A critical component of the contract includes access/transfer of source codes. This allows domestic companies to handle long-term system integration, software upgrades, and independent operational control.

Local Manufacturing & Assembly: Domestic sub-contractors will manufacture sub-components, launchers, mechanical systems, and ground infrastructure for the anti-aircraft and counter-drone batteries.

Maintenance, Repair, & Overhaul (MRO): Greek firms will oversee long-term sustainment, local servicing, and technical support over the project's 35-month rollout timeline and subsequent operational lifetime.

INTRACOM Defense (IDE):Tactical communications, electronics, and C2 integration.

Hellenic Aerospace Industry (HAI / EAV): Assembly support, heavy maintenance, and structural components.

TheON Sensors / Epsilon Group: Optronics, night vision, and thermal imaging systems.

SKYTALYS & Local IT Developers: Data link software, C4I network interoperability, and AI integration.

Domestic Subcontractors & Mechanical Shops: Mobile launcher chassis, ground power units, shelters, and site installation.
Looooooooooooooool
Man idk what to say tbh 🤣🤣

Idk whether to criticise the pro-govt greek media that provided fake news about Greece obtaining the source codes of Israeli AD systems in order to justify the enormous price tag to its people or the fact that your incompetent defence minister (no offence but he is) just acted as if he did nothing wrong by bluntly saying: "no, we dont have the source codes" and announcing that any future deals will have the source codes as a precondition to it being bought.

So lets get the fact straight 👇
1- Israel sells a few AD systems for an enormous price tag way above the market price
2- Israel refuses to provide any source codes whatsoever and the 25% local contribution will only be limitted to chasis and truck production.
3- Israel will provide any repairs through its own technicians and engineers and not Greece's personnel
4- (this segment is from Israeli media), In order to ensure fast repairs at the request of Greece, Israeli personnel will be present in Greece to repair the AD systems promptly

In other words, not only did you get scammed by Israel, but also Israeli army personnel will be in Greece observing each and every action the Greek army does 24/7 while ensuring that Greece doesnt think ever deviate from whatever narrative the Israelis writes.

You really need to have one hell of a breed of politicans to be scammed that hard tbh. This isnt incompetency anymore but bloody treason against each and every greek citizen. Well, congrats on producing that chasis domestically; it must be one hell of a kind maybe it does some magic tricks🤣🤣🤣

 
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Oublious

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Looooooooooooooool
Man idk what to say tbh 🤣🤣

Idk whether to criticise the pro-govt greek media that provided fake news about Greece obtaining the source codes of Israeli AD systems in order to justify the enormous price tag to its people or the fact that your incompetent defence minister (no offence but he is) just acted as if he did nothing wrong by bluntly saying: "no, we dont have the source codes" and announcing that any future deals will have the source codes as a precondition to it being bought.

So lets get the fact straight 👇
1- Israel sells a few AD systems for an enormous price tag way above the market price
2- Israel refuses to provide any source codes whatsoever and the 25% local contribution will only be limitted to chasis and truck production.
3- Israel will provide any repairs through its own technicians and engineers and not Greece's personnel
4- (this segment is from Israeli media), In order to ensure fast repairs at the request of Greece, Israeli personnel will be present in Greece to repair the AD systems promptly

In other words, not only did you get scammed by Israel, but also Israeli army personnel will be in Greece observing each and every action the Greek army does 24/7 while ensuring that Greece doesnt think ever deviate from whatever narrative the Israelis writes.

You really need to have one hell of a breed of politicans to be scammed that hard tbh. This isnt incompetency anymore but bloody treason against each and every greek citizen. Well, congrats on producing that chasis domestically; it must be one hell of a kind



If they had buy EU systems like SAMP-T they would have a source code, or maybe ToT a real ToT. Not expensive putting pipe together or vehicle.
 

Pokemonte13

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If they had buy EU systems like SAMP-T they would have a source code, or maybe ToT a real ToT. Not expensive putting pipe together or vehicle.
No unless they buy something thats about to be replaced by a newer model or pay a crazy amount of money. When it comes to advanced systems ToT is very rare or limited although im interested what their 25% share looks like.
 
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nick.f76

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The "Pipinos"—a Type 214HN submarine of the "Papanikolis" class—consistently impresses NATO during major naval exercises with its exceptionally quiet operation, which allows it to pass undetected by entire fleets of Western warships.

When a submarine manages to "vanish" within one of the densest and most technologically advanced anti-submarine warfare networks in the world, it is not merely a successful tactical exercise, but a demonstration of strategic superiority. In the waters of the Mediterranean, during NATO allied drills, the Greek Type 214HN submarine "Pipinos" achieved the seemingly impossible.

Facing anti-submarine frigates, P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and advanced variable-depth sonar systems, the Greek vessel managed to remain completely undetected, penetrate the defensive perimeter of the opposing strike force, and "sink" a NATO aircraft carrier—all before its presence was even revealed.

This incident was no mere coincidence; rather, it was the result of combining one of the world’s most sophisticated conventionally-powered platforms with the high-level operational training of the crews serving under the Hellenic Navy’s Submarine Command.

To understand how the submarine "PIPINOS" managed to neutralize NATO’s detection systems, one must first analyze the technical specifications of the "PAPANIKOLIS" class. The submarine "PIPINOS" (S-121) is the second vessel in a series of four Type 214HN submarines operated by the Hellenic Navy; it has a submerged displacement of 1,700 tons, a length of 65 meters, and a diameter of 6.3 meters.

The key feature that serves as a game-changer in the tactical arena is the Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, based on BVT PEM fuel cell technology. This system enables the submarine to generate electrical power through the chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, without the need to operate its diesel generators—and, consequently, without the use of a snorkel.

While a conventional diesel-electric submarine must surface to periscope depth every 24 to 48 hours to recharge its batteries—thereby exposing its thermal and radar-detectable signature—the Type 214HN can remain fully submerged for up to 14 consecutive days at cruising speeds of 2 to 4 knots. Furthermore, the hull’s specialized hydrodynamic design, the use of non-magnetic HY-100 steel capable of withstanding maximum operational depths exceeding 350 meters, and a special sound-absorbing coating, all work to dramatically reduce its acoustic and magnetic signature.

In this specific NATO exercise, the scenario involved protecting a high-value naval force against submarine attacks across a broad area of the Eastern Mediterranean. The NATO force had deployed a multi-layered anti-submarine warfare (ASW) network, which included towed sonar arrays, high-frequency active sonar, and the tactical deployment of sonobuoys by MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters.

The crew of the "Pipinos", fully leveraging the submarine’s capabilities, employed concealment tactics based on the oceanographic features of the area. By exploiting thermoclines—layers of water with varying temperatures and salinity that cause sonar sound waves to bend and refract—the submarine positioned itself at a depth where the sonar beams from the opposing force would "glide" over the vessel without producing an echo.

At the same time, the use of the ISUS 90-55 combat system enabled the simultaneous tracking of dozens of targets via cylindrical, flank, and towed-array passive sonars, all without the "Pipinos" emitting a single active sonar pulse. Moving at an extremely low speed—at which the noise from its pumps and propeller shaft was lower than the ambient sea noise—the Greek submarine rendered itself statistically non-existent to the target-classification computers of the allied frigates.

The climax of the incident occurred when the "Pipinos", having silently breached the outer defensive perimeters of the NATO force, managed to reach striking range of the formation’s center. Remaining undetected by any of the anti-submarine assets combing the area, the Greek submarine simulated the launch of heavy, wire-guided SeaHake Mod 4 torpedoes against the primary surface units.

According to exercise protocols, confirming a simulated attack requires either the transmission of a signal or a rapid ascent to periscope depth to verify the submarine's position. When the "Pipinos" revealed its presence by transmitting the signal for a simulated strike, the NATO force command was caught completely off guard—as the force’s tactical situation maps indicated that the area had been thoroughly cleared. The fact that a submarine was able to approach within a stone's throw of the escort vessels without triggering any alarms demonstrated that AIP technology—when combined with an excellent grasp of maritime geography and the tactical ingenuity of the crew—effectively nullifies multi-billion-dollar investments in anti-submarine warfare systems.

The success of the submarine "Pipinos" was not merely a tactical victory in an exercise, but a confirmation of the strategic balance in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Aegean. The four Type 214HN submarines, together with the modernized Type 209/1400 "Okeanos"—which is also equipped with an Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system—constitute a deterrent force that compels any potential adversary to factor in a high-level, asymmetric threat.

The ability to conduct operations in confined and archipelagic waters—where acoustic propagation is exceptionally complex due to the seabed topography—establishes Greek submarines as the absolute masters of the underwater domain. This incident demonstrated to NATO headquarters that the Hellenic Navy’s personnel possess the expertise to fully exploit the capabilities of the world’s most advanced conventional submarines.

The stealthy presence of "Pipinos" proved that, in modern naval warfare, stealth technology and tactical superiority can neutralize even the most overwhelming numerical advantage.
 
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Afif

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The "Pipinos"—a Type 214HN submarine of the "Papanikolis" class—consistently impresses NATO during major naval exercises with its exceptionally quiet operation, which allows it to pass undetected by entire fleets of Western warships.

When a submarine manages to "vanish" within one of the densest and most technologically advanced anti-submarine warfare networks in the world, it is not merely a successful tactical exercise, but a demonstration of strategic superiority. In the waters of the Mediterranean, during NATO allied drills, the Greek Type 214HN submarine "Pipinos" achieved the seemingly impossible.

Facing anti-submarine frigates, P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and advanced variable-depth sonar systems, the Greek vessel managed to remain completely undetected, penetrate the defensive perimeter of the opposing strike force, and "sink" a NATO aircraft carrier—all before its presence was even revealed.

This incident was no mere coincidence; rather, it was the result of combining one of the world’s most sophisticated conventionally-powered platforms with the high-level operational training of the crews serving under the Hellenic Navy’s Submarine Command.

To understand how the submarine "PIPINOS" managed to neutralize NATO’s detection systems, one must first analyze the technical specifications of the "PAPANIKOLIS" class. The submarine "PIPINOS" (S-121) is the second vessel in a series of four Type 214HN submarines operated by the Hellenic Navy; it has a submerged displacement of 1,700 tons, a length of 65 meters, and a diameter of 6.3 meters.

The key feature that serves as a game-changer in the tactical arena is the Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, based on BVT PEM fuel cell technology. This system enables the submarine to generate electrical power through the chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, without the need to operate its diesel generators—and, consequently, without the use of a snorkel.

While a conventional diesel-electric submarine must surface to periscope depth every 24 to 48 hours to recharge its batteries—thereby exposing its thermal and radar-detectable signature—the Type 214HN can remain fully submerged for up to 14 consecutive days at cruising speeds of 2 to 4 knots. Furthermore, the hull’s specialized hydrodynamic design, the use of non-magnetic HY-100 steel capable of withstanding maximum operational depths exceeding 350 meters, and a special sound-absorbing coating, all work to dramatically reduce its acoustic and magnetic signature.

In this specific NATO exercise, the scenario involved protecting a high-value naval force against submarine attacks across a broad area of the Eastern Mediterranean. The NATO force had deployed a multi-layered anti-submarine warfare (ASW) network, which included towed sonar arrays, high-frequency active sonar, and the tactical deployment of sonobuoys by MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters.

The crew of the "Pipinos", fully leveraging the submarine’s capabilities, employed concealment tactics based on the oceanographic features of the area. By exploiting thermoclines—layers of water with varying temperatures and salinity that cause sonar sound waves to bend and refract—the submarine positioned itself at a depth where the sonar beams from the opposing force would "glide" over the vessel without producing an echo.

At the same time, the use of the ISUS 90-55 combat system enabled the simultaneous tracking of dozens of targets via cylindrical, flank, and towed-array passive sonars, all without the "Pipinos" emitting a single active sonar pulse. Moving at an extremely low speed—at which the noise from its pumps and propeller shaft was lower than the ambient sea noise—the Greek submarine rendered itself statistically non-existent to the target-classification computers of the allied frigates.

The climax of the incident occurred when the "Pipinos", having silently breached the outer defensive perimeters of the NATO force, managed to reach striking range of the formation’s center. Remaining undetected by any of the anti-submarine assets combing the area, the Greek submarine simulated the launch of heavy, wire-guided SeaHake Mod 4 torpedoes against the primary surface units.

According to exercise protocols, confirming a simulated attack requires either the transmission of a signal or a rapid ascent to periscope depth to verify the submarine's position. When the "Pipinos" revealed its presence by transmitting the signal for a simulated strike, the NATO force command was caught completely off guard—as the force’s tactical situation maps indicated that the area had been thoroughly cleared. The fact that a submarine was able to approach within a stone's throw of the escort vessels without triggering any alarms demonstrated that AIP technology—when combined with an excellent grasp of maritime geography and the tactical ingenuity of the crew—effectively nullifies multi-billion-dollar investments in anti-submarine warfare systems.

The success of the submarine "Pipinos" was not merely a tactical victory in an exercise, but a confirmation of the strategic balance in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Aegean. The four Type 214HN submarines, together with the modernized Type 209/1400 "Okeanos"—which is also equipped with an Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system—constitute a deterrent force that compels any potential adversary to factor in a high-level, asymmetric threat.

The ability to conduct operations in confined and archipelagic waters—where acoustic propagation is exceptionally complex due to the seabed topography—establishes Greek submarines as the absolute masters of the underwater domain. This incident demonstrated to NATO headquarters that the Hellenic Navy’s personnel possess the expertise to fully exploit the capabilities of the world’s most advanced conventional submarines.

The stealthy presence of "Pipinos" proved that, in modern naval warfare, stealth technology and tactical superiority can neutralize even the most overwhelming numerical advantage.

Modern SSKs are great at this in exercises and war games.

They are quiet, advanced and equipped with capable sensors and weapons. But in real world their limitation is speed more than endurance. They have to cruise at 4 knot to maintain two weeks underwater endurance. In real world combat condition, a naval task force would be cruising at 20/25 knots. SSKs simply can't keep up with this without entirely sacrificing its long endurance. However, they are great for silent ambushes at maritime chockpoints.
 
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